Medal of Valor Association FB Group

[CAPOfficer]

AFI36-2803, 18 DECEMBER 2013, Chapter 1, para 1.15, page 19

1.15.  General Considerations before Submitting a Decoration Recommendation: In accordance with Title 10 U.S.C. Section 6249, "No medal, cross, or bar, or associated emblem or insignia may be awarded or presented to any USAF member or their representative, if the member's entire service subsequent to the time of the distinguished act, achievement, or service has not been honorable."  Section 8744 of title 10 U.S.C. also stipulate that the Medal of Honor (MOH), the AFC, and the DSM can only be considered and approved for members whose character of service is exemplary and this requirement will not be waived.  Supervisors and commanders, at all levels, are responsible to ensure that only deserving personnel are submitted for decorations.  Submit recommendations as soon as possible following the act, achievement, or service.  Enter each recommendation (except the PH) into official channels within 2 years and award within 3 years of the act, achievement, or service performed.  This will be strictly enforced.

(PH) - Purple Heart

Emphasis added; not shown bold in Instruction.

Provided for information to validate the Air Force does have a written timeframe it follows. 

[lordmonar]

Except it is not strictly enforced.......lots and lots and lots of examples where medals were awarded decades after the event.

[RiverAux]

Except it is not strictly enforced.......lots and lots and lots of examples where medals were awarded decades after the event.

In the last 6 months?  Assuming that similar language wasn't in previous versions. 

[lordmonar]

Except it is not strictly enforced.......lots and lots and lots of examples where medals were awarded decades after the event.

In the last 6 months?  Assuming that similar language wasn't in previous versions.

http://www.armytimes.com/article/20140529/NEWS/305290054/WWII-veteran-gets-medals-70-years-later

It is the Army....but there you go.

IIRC that language has been in the AFI and the AFR for years and years.

My point is that there are always exceptions to the rules.

[starshippe]

jim,
   could u pls send me an email?
   starshippe at comcast dot net.

thanks,
bill

[Flying Pig]

6 years, signed and dated back then? I'd send it up anyway.
The stories we hear .. that wouldn't be too far out of the spectrum.

Non-starter. There's a two year limit on time, and it is rigidly enforced. We had someone get "black holed" when I first came to the wing, and the resubmission got kicked back.

Yeah I have noticed that the 2-year time limit seems to be rigidly enforced. About the only thing in CAP huh? I have a lifesaving medal I should have been awarded in 1990. The paperwork was submitted to FLWG, and a story commemorating the whole thing was posted in the FLWG newsletter which can still be accessed today but nothing ever came of it. Sad. Not that I don't get to wear another ribbon, but that a person's valor is only good for two years. Good thing AD military doesn't view it that way. A valorous act should be recognized regardless of when the act occurred.

Happened to me. CAP Forms filled out, paperwork done, news  articles, witness statements... put in an envelope and a stamp put on it.  I never heard anything back.  A few years later I found the envelope in a desk drawer during a squadron clean up day.   I contacted NHQ and was told "Sorry...... you only have 2 yrs from the date of the incident."  I attempted to explain the chain of events and was basically talked to like I was a kid begging for candy at a store and sent on my way. 

[Devil Doc]

Not CAP Related but....

Awards get DownGraded and Upgraded in the Military all the time. As a matter of fact, certain awards depends on what rank and or MOS you have in the service. I was awarded an AD award for Valor, it was submitted and demoted twice  to the awards I have now before I finally got the Valor award almost 2 years after.

[Flying Pig]

Thats definitely true.  My grandfather was nominated for the Distinguished Service Cross for actions in WWII.  He ended up with 2 separate Bronze Stars that were awarded in the late 60s.  If I recall I don't think he got his PH until several years after for having his pinky finger shot off and some shrapnel wounds.  So after the war he gets out a PFC after serving from 1939-1945 (yeah, over achiever  :clap:) and 20+yrs later he ends up with 2 BSMs with "V"s and 2 Purple Hearts.  Im told he had an issue with authority figures during the war  

[Devil Doc]

Yep, Mine went from a Bronze Star with V, to a Navy and Marine Corps Commendation Medal with V, to a Navy/Marine Corps Achievment Medal with V. I really dont care which one, just eerks me the reasons that were given.

[NorCal21]

Well it doesn't surprise me that the Chair Force has a 2 year limit. The Marines may have as well but I've not once seen it adhered to that I can remember. Valor knows no time limit, and sometimes it takes more than two years to verify. The Marines have the least amount of valor awards since 9/11 for troops engaged in theater. I think part of it is that we're much more strict as to what we consider rises to the level of valor for awards, but we are definitely much more strict with investigations to determine if statements concerning valor are accurate before an honor is bestowed. In fact, many are commenting negatively about how few awards have been handed out to Marines.

[Alaric]

Well it doesn't surprise me that the Chair Force has a 2 year limit. The Marines may have as well but I've not once seen it adhered to that I can remember. Valor knows no time limit, and sometimes it takes more than two years to verify. The Marines have the least amount of valor awards since 9/11 for troops engaged in theater. I think part of it is that we're much more strict as to what we consider rises to the level of valor for awards, but we are definitely much more strict with investigations to determine if statements concerning valor are accurate before an honor is bestowed. In fact, many are commenting negatively about how few awards have been handed out to Marines.

The Navy (and therefore the Marines) have a 3 year limit except under special limited circumstances as indicated in http://www.marines.mil/Portals/59/Publications/SecNavInst%201650.1H.pdf (2-1 c)

The Air Force has a 2 year time limit as indicated in http://static.e-publishing.af.mil/production/1/acc/publication/afi36-2803_accsup_i/afi36-2803_accsup_i.pdf (3.1)

The Army also has a 2 year time limit as indicated in http://www.apd.army.mil/pdffiles/r600_8_22.pdf (1-14)

[Devil Doc]

Well it doesn't surprise me that the Chair Force has a 2 year limit. The Marines may have as well but I've not once seen it adhered to that I can remember. Valor knows no time limit, and sometimes it takes more than two years to verify. The Marines have the least amount of valor awards since 9/11 for troops engaged in theater. I think part of it is that we're much more strict as to what we consider rises to the level of valor for awards, but we are definitely much more strict with investigations to determine if statements concerning valor are accurate before an honor is bestowed. In fact, many are commenting negatively about how few awards have been handed out to Marines.

You aint lying, Ive seen some brave stuff by Marines, and they get a pat on the back. No offense to the ARMY, but some of the rewards they give out, are rediculous. I have had numerous people read my award and state if i was ARMY it would have been atleast a Bronze Star.... but I digress. I didnt join for the awards and medals, it is just nice to get them. I have seen many many times where something was above and beyond, and it was like you were doing you job, and no recognition.

[Private Investigator]

Well it doesn't surprise me that the Chair Force has a 2 year limit. The Marines may have as well but I've not once seen it adhered to that I can remember. Valor knows no time limit, and sometimes it takes more than two years to verify. The Marines have the least amount of valor awards since 9/11 for troops engaged in theater. I think part of it is that we're much more strict as to what we consider rises to the level of valor for awards, but we are definitely much more strict with investigations to determine if statements concerning valor are accurate before an honor is bestowed. In fact, many are commenting negatively about how few awards have been handed out to Marines.

You aint lying, Ive seen some brave stuff by Marines, and they get a pat on the back. No offense to the ARMY, but some of the rewards they give out, are rediculous. I have had numerous people read my award and state if i was ARMY it would have been atleast a Bronze Star.... but I digress. I didnt join for the awards and medals, it is just nice to get them. I have seen many many times where something was above and beyond, and it was like you were doing you job, and no recognition.

Read Richard Marcinko's autobiography. Very interesting take on awards during Viet Nam from a Navy SEAL POV. 

[Private Investigator]

Except it is not strictly enforced.......lots and lots and lots of examples where medals were awarded decades after the event.

In the last 6 months?  Assuming that similar language wasn't in previous versions.

http://www.armytimes.com/article/20140529/NEWS/305290054/WWII-veteran-gets-medals-70-years-later

It is the Army....but there you go.

IIRC that language has been in the AFI and the AFR for years and years.

My point is that there are always exceptions to the rules.

Spot on   

[Flying Pig]

One of the big issue with awards in the military, especially the Army is for promotion points.   So it can be a pretty big deal if you get boned out of a medal you earned and/or deserve.  When I was in the Army Reserves, I was infantry... busted my rump like everyone else... did extra days.  When we went to the field to train other support units we would often times do  days with little sleep.... you guys know the deal, Im not saying anything any vets here haven't done.   But we had this soldier who was in HQ company who I SWEAR every 6 months would get an Army Comm or an Army Achievement for accomplishing some sort of admin task.

Whats the difference?  She had a commander that was very pro-medal.  Our OPFOR Plt commander was a former Special Forces and believed that you don't get medals for "doing your job".  Well thats all fine and dandy when you are a MSgt with 25+ years.  But since my promotions could be made or broken on having or not having a medal......  it got pretty tense every time this other soldier trotted back up during formation to get another medal pinned on.  At one point several people let out a collective "sigh" during one pinning.  Good times

[Garibaldi]

One of the big issue with awards in the military, especially the Army is for promotion points.   So it can be a pretty big deal if you get boned out of a medal you earned and/or deserve.  When I was in the Army Reserves, I was infantry... busted my rump like everyone else... did extra days.  When we went to the field to train other support units we would often times do  days with little sleep.... you guys know the deal, Im not saying anything any vets here haven't done.   But we had this soldier who was in HQ company who I SWEAR every 6 months would get an Army Comm or an Army Achievement for accomplishing some sort of admin task.

Whats the difference?  She had a commander that was very pro-medal.  Our OPFOR Plt commander was a former Special Forces and believed that you don't get medals for "doing your job".  Well thats all fine and dandy when you are a MSgt with 25+ years.  But since my promotions could be made or broken on having or not having a medal......  it got pretty tense every time this other soldier trotted back up during formation to get another medal pinned on.  At one point several people let out a collective "sigh" during one pinning.  Good times

I once read an anecdote about officers in Vietnam in the rear areas getting Bronze stars for admin work, and also for being in theater for 6 months or so. Could be apocryphal.

[MSG Mac]

The Army in Vietnam would print out a list that listed all soldiers in a unit that had 6 months in country, unless removed from the list you received an ARCOM, At eight months the Bronze Star. Officer would generally spend 6 months with a field unit and the remaining 6 months with a headquarters unit. Enlisted of course stayed in the field for their entire tour. Now the awards system is unofficially skewed so that the award made is based on grade. E-1-E-4 AAM, E-5-E-6  ARCOM, E-7-E-8 MSM/BSM, E-9 Legion of Merit

[Flying Pig]

The Bronze Star can be awarded for admin work.  Its totally legit.  Keep in mind, the Bronze Star is awarded in place of the Meritorious Service Medal when in a combat zone.  So the BSM with a "V" is a completely different medal than a BSM without the "V".   Similar to an Army Commendation with a "V" or Navy Achievement with a "V".   Thats why the Silver Star, Navy Cross, Air Force Cross and Distinguished Service Cross do not have provisions for a "V" device because they can ONLY be awarded for combat actions.  The Distinguished Flying Cross also has a "V" device because you can earn it when not in combat.  The Air Medal again, is similar.  It has a provision for a "V"

Ive seen a couple guest speakers here and there who are advertised as "Bronze Star Medal Winner Joe Blow to speak"  I never served in combat....  I don't have one.... so Im not going to be the jerk who feels the need to point out to people that the guy they are drooling over thinking he's a war hero actually doesn't have the medal they think he does.   Doesn't really matter.  Nor have I ever heard a BSM recipient claim they have something they don't. 

I made a comment on FB about an article on a female soldier getting a getting the BSM.  All the posts were "What a true hero"  "Who says women cant serve in combat" "GI Jane" etc etc.   I probably should have kept my thoughts to myself, but I pointed out the difference in the two medals and and that hers was not for combat valor.  I got beat down as a woman hater.     But Ive never seen anyone trip over themselves when they see someone walk by with a Meritorious Service Medal.  It is what it is. 

[Mitchell 1969]

One of the big issue with awards in the military, especially the Army is for promotion points.   So it can be a pretty big deal if you get boned out of a medal you earned and/or deserve.  When I was in the Army Reserves, I was infantry... busted my rump like everyone else... did extra days.  When we went to the field to train other support units we would often times do  days with little sleep.... you guys know the deal, Im not saying anything any vets here haven't done.   But we had this soldier who was in HQ company who I SWEAR every 6 months would get an Army Comm or an Army Achievement for accomplishing some sort of admin task.

Whats the difference?  She had a commander that was very pro-medal.  Our OPFOR Plt commander was a former Special Forces and believed that you don't get medals for "doing your job".  Well thats all fine and dandy when you are a MSgt with 25+ years.  But since my promotions could be made or broken on having or not having a medal......  it got pretty tense every time this other soldier trotted back up during formation to get another medal pinned on.  At one point several people let out a collective "sigh" during one pinning.  Good times

I once read an anecdote about officers in Vietnam in the rear areas getting Bronze stars for admin work, and also for being in theater for 6 months or so. Could be apocryphal.

Speaking of apocryphal:

I had a JROTC Instructor (retired SFC) tell me that he "was only three guys away from getting a Bronze Star in Korea." He had driven an Army officer to meet with Marine officers and was waiting by the jeep. A helicopter landed and a crowd of Marines went over. He went, too, figuring somebody might be delivering food, candy bars or cigarettes. Turned out to be a general handing out Bronze Stars. He ran out three guys ahead of my JROTC instructor, got back in and flew out.

[NorCal21]

The Navy (and therefore the Marines) have a 3 year limit except under special limited circumstances as indicated in http://www.marines.mil/Portals/59/Publications/SecNavInst%201650.1H.pdf (2-1 c)

The Air Force has a 2 year time limit as indicated in http://static.e-publishing.af.mil/production/1/acc/publication/afi36-2803_accsup_i/afi36-2803_accsup_i.pdf (3.1)

The Army also has a 2 year time limit as indicated in http://www.apd.army.mil/pdffiles/r600_8_22.pdf (1-14)

And it has been my experience that the Marine Corps routinely ignores its MCO limitations on valor awards. I've, in fact, never seen a valor award in the Marine Corps denied based on those limits.