The USO

[usafcap1]

A few years back I want to Dayton, Ohio. I was wearing full BDUs only because by the time I would have gotten there it would be time I would ready for CAP in Dayton, non the less that's a different story. But while I was getting off the plane someone showed me the way to the USO Office. So I guess my question is can CAP members take part of the USO Office as well?

[Eclipse]

No.

[SarDragon]

I would not recommend it. The USO is an adult environment.

[usafcap1]

I would not recommend it. The USO is an adult environment.

Adult environment?

[Flying Pig]

Yes.... Adult environment.  Alcohol served.  Not porn.    All the USOs Ive been to were basically a bar atmosphere.  Its a place for big kids. 

Regardless, Cadet or Senior, CAP absolutely should not take advantage of the USO.  Its for service members only.

[usafcap1]

ooooohhhhh I gotcha. but what if I  was a SM in full CAP BDUs.





sorry for all my questions I just don't want mess up, so I cover every thing.

[Flying Pig]

Yes.... Adult environment.  Alcohol served.  Not porn.    All the USOs Ive been to were basically a bar atmosphere.  Its a place for big kids. 

Regardless, Cadet or Senior, CAP absolutely should not take advantage of the USO.  Its for service members only.

The USO is not for CAP.  At all, ever.

[Noble Six]

The USO is a non-profit organization, we are here to serve personnel in all branches of the military- active duty, National Guard, reserve, retirees, and authorized family members.

[usafcap1]

Yes.... Adult environment.  Alcohol served.  Not porn.    All the USOs Ive been to were basically a bar atmosphere.  Its a place for big kids. 

Regardless, Cadet or Senior, CAP absolutely should not take advantage of the USO.  Its for service members only.

The USO is not for CAP.  At all, ever.

Roger

[Flying Pig]

Now if your in the military.....AND in CAP.  Then Yes.  You just may have some clarifying to do.

[Noble Six]

Thats easy just show your CAC card or DDform 2, no reason to even show a cap card.

[PHall]

The only reason a CAP member should be in a USO is if they're volunteering there. And NOT in uniform!!!

[FlyTiger77]

So I guess my question is can CAP members take part of the USO Office as well?

No.


USO is one of my most favorite organizations in the world.

[bflynn]

The USO is one of my favorite organizations too - they are constantly on the list of charities I donate to.  They mission is to help military service members with a focus on those away from home and/or overseas.  Like the CAP, the USO was created during WWII to help focus the energy of multiple charity groups attempting to assist service members.

Although many have already said it, I will again - the Civil Air Patrol is a civilian organization, so going to a USO facility would be inappropriate.

[Sgt. Fischer]

No!

[Майор Хаткевич]

No!

Thank you for your constructive input.

Seriously, you don't need to add to your post count - it doesn't matter.

If you don't have anything to add, then just read and move on.

[754837]

How wise was it wearing a CAP uniform on a commercial flight that, I assume, had nothing to do with CAP business?   It is almost misleading...

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

How wise was it wearing a CAP uniform on a commercial flight that, I assume, had nothing to do with CAP business?   It is almost misleading...

First, NEVER assume.

39-1 doesn't prohibit it.  It would be misleading if you deliberately tried to pass yourself off as a USAF officer.  Otherwise, there are enough CAP identifiers on the uniform to distinguish us, unless someone chooses not to read them.

ooooohhhhh I gotcha. but what if I  was a SM in full CAP BDUs.

You shouldn't be in an airport in BDU's.  I know it seems to be the trend for military members to do that (I couldn't tell you the last time I saw an Army officer, NCO or EM in anything but ACU's) but for us BDU's are strictly a work/duty/utility uniform.  In an airport environment, you should be in blues or aviator G/W.

The only reason a CAP member should be in a USO is if they're volunteering there. And NOT in uniform!!!

Unless authorised by higher authority.  But, no, you do not just walk into a USO facility in your service dress and say "here I am."

[swanny]

First off to get this straight, currently the USO's do not serve alcohol at their airport locations. Also, from visiting over 25 USO locations, I have yet to see them set up as a bar. This would be totally opposite of what their mission is. You may be thinking of the VFW or American Legion. 

In an OCONUS environment all CAP squadron members would be authorized to visit and utilize the USO's at their base. Members of CAP overseas must have SOFA status which would authorize them unlimited exchange, commissary, etc. The proof of SOFA would be determined by their CAC ID. In CONUS CAP members would only be able to utilize the USO's if they fall under the previous mentioned categories below.

all branches of the military- active duty, National Guard, reserve, retirees, and authorized family members

[Mitchell 1969]

Yes.... Adult environment.  Alcohol served.  Not porn.    All the USOs Ive been to were basically a bar atmosphere.  Its a place for big kids. 

Regardless, Cadet or Senior, CAP absolutely should not take advantage of the USO.  Its for service members only.

The USO is not for CAP.  At all, ever.

I beg to differ.

The USO is for whomever USO decides it is for. I am not aware of them declaring that Internet forum posters had been delegated that responsibility on their behalf.

I coordinated outbound and inbound IACE at LAX for many years. The executive director of the LAX USO continually offered it to CAP as an assembly, briefing and general "kick back" facility. His offer was taken up many times, especially by cadets facing long layovers after their escorts had departed for home.

Now, that doesn't mean that any CAP member should feel free to quote this post and drop in at their local USO. But it does mean that <<The USO is not for CAP.  At all, ever>> is not a completely accurate statement.

[RADIOMAN015]

Yes.... Adult environment.  Alcohol served.  Not porn.    All the USOs Ive been to were basically a bar atmosphere.  Its a place for big kids. 

Regardless, Cadet or Senior, CAP absolutely should not take advantage of the USO.  Its for service members only.

The USO is not for CAP.  At all, ever.

I beg to differ.

The USO is for whomever USO decides it is for. I am not aware of them declaring that Internet forum posters had been delegated that responsibility on their behalf.

I coordinated outbound and inbound IACE at LAX for many years. The executive director of the LAX USO continually offered it to CAP as an assembly, briefing and general "kick back" facility. His offer was taken up many times, especially by cadets facing long layovers after their escorts had departed for home.

Now, that doesn't mean that any CAP member should feel free to quote this post and drop in at their local USO. But it does mean that <<The USO is not for CAP.  At all, ever>> is not a completely accurate statement.

Hmm it looks to me like this organization exists to provide support to military personnel and their families
http://www.uso.org/the-organization.aspx

CAP members (cadet or adults) unless they meet the eligibility requirements of military member or dependent really shouldn't be getting any benefit from this organization.

As far as the specific example given, shame on those running the IACE program they should have ensured there was proper CAP adult supervision for the cadets (if the escort departed early), that isn't a USO responsibility .
RM     

[NIN]

As far as the specific example given, shame on those running the IACE program they should have ensured there was proper CAP adult supervision for the cadets (if the escort departed early), that isn't a USO responsibility .

Yeah, shame on them for not forcing the airlines to change their schedules to accommodate IACE.

You clearly don't know who Bernie is, do you?  That makes it even funnier

[N Harmon]

CAP members (cadet or adults) unless they meet the eligibility requirements of military member or dependent really shouldn't be getting any benefit from this organization.

Why? Why does it make you so angry that this organization might give support to CAP in certain circumstances?

[PA Guy]

As far as the specific example given, shame on those running the IACE program they should have ensured there was proper CAP adult supervision for the cadets (if the escort departed early), that isn't a USO responsibility .

Yeah, shame on them for not forcing the airlines to change their schedules to accommodate IACE.

You clearly don't know who Bernie is, do you?  That makes it even funnier

Nin, don't bother it would go right over RMs head.  After all, he is the final word on all things CAP because he was in the Real Military and must show us mere CAP types the true way.

[caphornbuckle]

Sounds like this thread is gonna get locked soon 

[NIN]

As far as the specific example given, shame on those running the IACE program they should have ensured there was proper CAP adult supervision for the cadets (if the escort departed early), that isn't a USO responsibility .

Yeah, shame on them for not forcing the airlines to change their schedules to accommodate IACE.

You clearly don't know who Bernie is, do you?  That makes it even funnier

Nin, don't bother it would go right over RMs head.  After all, he is the final word on all things CAP because he was in the Real Military and must show us mere CAP types the true way.

a) The Chief Protector Arbiter of Those Who Are Allowed Entrance to the Grand USO.
b) The Chief Critic of Those Who Run NCSAs Involving Airline Travel for 17 Year Old Cadets Returning from Overseas Locations
(Note: Please do not mention the concept of connecting flights or layovers between the Point of Embarkation/Debarkation and Home Station.  It causes apoplexy and frothing at the mouth, and incessant ranting about escorts from door to door)

But from way out there in Western Mass, he can sure tell everybody else how to get it done.

Here's a great idea: Volunteer to run an NCSA. See how much better you do.  We'll wait, let us know how it goes.

[NIN]

Why? Why does it make you so angry that this organization might give support to CAP in certain circumstances?

Because. Everybody in CAP is a bunch of fakers.  You know that.

You faker.

Signed,

The guy who faked it in CAP for 28 years..

[Mitchell 1969]

Hmm it looks to me like this organization exists to provide support to military personnel and their families
http://www.uso.org/the-organization.aspx

CAP members (cadet or adults) unless they meet the eligibility requirements of military member or dependent really shouldn't be getting any benefit from this organization.

As far as the specific example given, shame on those running the IACE program they should have ensured there was proper CAP adult supervision for the cadets (if the escort departed early), that isn't a USO responsibility .
RM   
[/quote]

Well...Unlike the East Coast IACE outbound, the West Coast has no gathering event (AKA tour of DC). Participants start their departure day at the crack of dawn or earlier, starting at Bugtussle Regional Airport, changing in Atlanta, Chicago or Dallas. They arrive at various times, dependent on flight schedules. They. An arrive at any one of 8 terminals and eventually have to meet up for their international departures.

The difference between arrival and departure could be anywhere from one to six hours. Sometimes they would arrive concurrently - time wise, anyway. But never terminal wise. No matter. They were all met and delivered to the gate or USO. I'd meet with them at some point. I did not stay with them all day. Mind you, I
Didn't travel with them from Bugtussle, Atlanta, Chicago and Dallas, either. Shame on me.

The process reversed when they got back. Considering that the youngest was 17, and they had my cell phone number, email address and a direct line into the Airport Police Dignitary Protection Unit, plus the USO, plus access to the airport employee cafeteria (about 100 yards from the USO), and also considering that they were Dynamic Americans and Aerospace Leaders, often with GT experience, I thought they might be able to survive ok. And, I guess National did, too, because they did the scheduling.

Wonder of wonders - we lost nary a one. However, since you seem to have discovered a problem that nobody else did, including the USO, how about helping out with the solution?

To guarantee that they all arrive, gather and stay together, supervised, they will each need a hotel room. In fact, two. One outbound, one inbound. Will that be cash, credit, or do you just want NHQ to bill you?

Thank you for your concern and generosity.

[RADIOMAN015]

Hmm it looks to me like this organization exists to provide support to military personnel and their families
http://www.uso.org/the-organization.aspx

CAP members (cadet or adults) unless they meet the eligibility requirements of military member or dependent really shouldn't be getting any benefit from this organization.

As far as the specific example given, shame on those running the IACE program they should have ensured there was proper CAP adult supervision for the cadets (if the escort departed early), that isn't a USO responsibility .
RM   

Well...Unlike the East Coast IACE outbound, the West Coast has no gathering event (AKA tour of DC). Participants start their departure day at the crack of dawn or earlier, starting at Bugtussle Regional Airport, changing in Atlanta, Chicago or Dallas. They arrive at various times, dependent on flight schedules. They. An arrive at any one of 8 terminals and eventually have to meet up for their international departures.

The difference between arrival and departure could be anywhere from one to six hours. Sometimes they would arrive concurrently - time wise, anyway. But never terminal wise. No matter. They were all met and delivered to the gate or USO. I'd meet with them at some point. I did not stay with them all day. Mind you, I
Didn't travel with them from Bugtussle, Atlanta, Chicago and Dallas, either. Shame on me.

The process reversed when they got back. Considering that the youngest was 17, and they had my cell phone number, email address and a direct line into the Airport Police Dignitary Protection Unit, plus the USO, plus access to the airport employee cafeteria (about 100 yards from the USO), and also considering that they were Dynamic Americans and Aerospace Leaders, often with GT experience, I thought they might be able to survive ok. And, I guess National did, too, because they did the scheduling.

Wonder of wonders - we lost nary a one. However, since you seem to have discovered a problem that nobody else did, including the USO, how about helping out with the solution?

To guarantee that they all arrive, gather and stay together, supervised, they will each need a hotel room. In fact, two. One outbound, one inbound. Will that be cash, credit, or do you just want NHQ to bill you?

Thank you for your concern and generosity.
[/quote]

Well it is VERY nice that YOU offer to do this because, again the CAP organization itself can't seem to handle it, or basically pawning their responsibility on to another organization.    I salute you for stepping forward and doing this :clap:   Surely, there's some fine organization that will make exceptions to what they are organized for, sort of like "mission creep".

HOWEVER, that being said (and as you indicate as a disclaimer), again the USO isn't organized to support Civil Air Patrol cadets or senior members as part of its' regular mission.  Hopefully with your post, there won't be more attempts to pawn off CAP's responsibilities for cadets to more USO's.
RM
 

[PhoenixRisen]

Radioman, how on God's green earth do you take this:

The executive director of the LAX USO continually offered it to CAP as an assembly, briefing and general "kick back" facility. His offer was taken up many times, especially by cadets facing long layovers after their escorts had departed for home.

...and manage to misconstrue it to this:

Well it is VERY nice that YOU offer to do this because, again the CAP organization itself can't seem to handle it, or basically pawning their responsibility on to another organization.

Your logic absolutely boggles me.

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

Radioman, how on God's green earth do you take this:

The executive director of the LAX USO continually offered it to CAP as an assembly, briefing and general "kick back" facility. His offer was taken up many times, especially by cadets facing long layovers after their escorts had departed for home.

...and manage to misconstrue it to this:

Well it is VERY nice that YOU offer to do this because, again the CAP organization itself can't seem to handle it, or basically pawning their responsibility on to another organization.

Your logic absolutely boggles me.

My WAG is that friend RM15 wants CAP, both as an organisation and as individuals, to be completely divorced from any connection with any of the five military services, except where funding for ES missions is involved.

[RADIOMAN015]

Radioman, how on God's green earth do you take this:

The executive director of the LAX USO continually offered it to CAP as an assembly, briefing and general "kick back" facility. His offer was taken up many times, especially by cadets facing long layovers after their escorts had departed for home.

...and manage to misconstrue it to this:

Well it is VERY nice that YOU offer to do this because, again the CAP organization itself can't seem to handle it, or basically pawning their responsibility on to another organization.

Your logic absolutely boggles me.

And again that is VERY NICE, that the USO organization at that location is willing to step up to help CAP, since CAP is unwilling/unable to help itself and again I personally salute the USO for their efforts in doing this :clap:   

Now IF it was mentioned that a few CAP senior members stay with the cadets, than I would have a different opinion.   I'm definitely not against the USO, they are great organization.  HOWEVER, Civil Air Patrol has a responsibility for those cadets in transit, it is NOT a USO responsibility  (and frankly I've had my share of long lay overs and it isn't very comfortable).  I guess we have no CAP senior members in the LAX area that could help out .  That's my point in these postings.   
RM

[PA Guy]

Radioman, how on God's green earth do you take this:

The executive director of the LAX USO continually offered it to CAP as an assembly, briefing and general "kick back" facility. His offer was taken up many times, especially by cadets facing long layovers after their escorts had departed for home.

...and manage to misconstrue it to this:

Well it is VERY nice that YOU offer to do this because, again the CAP organization itself can't seem to handle it, or basically pawning their responsibility on to another organization.

Your logic absolutely boggles me.

Logic, ignorance and a healthy dose of arrogance have never gotten in his his way in the past.  He fancies himself quite the contrarian.

[Mitchell 1969]

Radioman, how on God's green earth do you take this:

The executive director of the LAX USO continually offered it to CAP as an assembly, briefing and general "kick back" facility. His offer was taken up many times, especially by cadets facing long layovers after their escorts had departed for home.

...and manage to misconstrue it to this:

Well it is VERY nice that YOU offer to do this because, again the CAP organization itself can't seem to handle it, or basically pawning their responsibility on to another organization.

Your logic absolutely boggles me.

And again that is VERY NICE, that the USO organization at that location is willing to step up to help CAP, since CAP is unwilling/unable to help itself and again I personally salute the USO for their efforts in doing this :clap:   

Now IF it was mentioned that a few CAP senior members stay with the cadets, than I would have a different opinion.   I'm definitely not against the USO, they are great organization.  HOWEVER, Civil Air Patrol has a responsibility for those cadets in transit, it is NOT a USO responsibility  (and frankly I've had my share of long lay overs and it isn't very comfortable).  I guess we have no CAP senior members in the LAX area that could help out .  That's my point in these postings.   
RM

Oh, I was about as close to the LAX area as anybody possibly could be. And i do mean anybody. And I do mean as close as possible.

That's how I chose to set it up. USO had no problem with it. NHQ had no problem with it. None of the participants had any problem with it. And I am not the least bit interested in entertaining you having a problem with it.

[RADIOMAN015]

Radioman, how on God's green earth do you take this:

The executive director of the LAX USO continually offered it to CAP as an assembly, briefing and general "kick back" facility. His offer was taken up many times, especially by cadets facing long layovers after their escorts had departed for home.

...and manage to misconstrue it to this:

Well it is VERY nice that YOU offer to do this because, again the CAP organization itself can't seem to handle it, or basically pawning their responsibility on to another organization.

Your logic absolutely boggles me.

And again that is VERY NICE, that the USO organization at that location is willing to step up to help CAP, since CAP is unwilling/unable to help itself and again I personally salute the USO for their efforts in doing this :clap:   

Now IF it was mentioned that a few CAP senior members stay with the cadets, than I would have a different opinion.   I'm definitely not against the USO, they are great organization.  HOWEVER, Civil Air Patrol has a responsibility for those cadets in transit, it is NOT a USO responsibility  (and frankly I've had my share of long lay overs and it isn't very comfortable).  I guess we have no CAP senior members in the LAX area that could help out .  That's my point in these postings.   
RM

Oh, I was about as close to the LAX area as anybody possibly could be. And i do mean anybody. And I do mean as close as possible.

That's how I chose to set it up. USO had no problem with it. NHQ had no problem with it. None of the participants had any problem with it. And I am not the least bit interested in entertaining you having a problem with it.

Again that's great, you don't mention if you are a CAP member or not, so perhaps that the confusing part of this.  I salute you and the USO for willing to help the CAP organization :clap: :clap: :clap:
RM 

[NIN]

My WAG is that friend RM15 wants CAP, both as an organisation and as individuals, to be completely divorced from any connection with any of the five military services, except where funding for ES missions is involved.

RM15 would be most happy if, during any point where any Civil Air Patrol member must, for some completely unknown and unfathomable reason (to him), wear a USAF-style uniform, there would be someone walking behind that member carrying a large blaze orange sign that had a gigantic arrow pointing down at the person in the USAF-style uniform that said "Hey, this person is a big fat military faker. They're not military, so please, for the love of all that is holy and right with the world, do not salute this person, call them 'sir' or 'ma'am', imply in any way shape or form that they are possibly connected with any of the uniformed services and especially not the United States Air Force, and whatever you do, don't give them a discount for being in uniform, and if you're particularly feeling saucy today, call the FBI and report them as being a big fat faker, mmmkay?"

[RADIOMAN015]

My WAG is that friend RM15 wants CAP, both as an organisation and as individuals, to be completely divorced from any connection with any of the five military services, except where funding for ES missions is involved.

RM15 would be most happy if, during any point where any Civil Air Patrol member must, for some completely unknown and unfathomable reason (to him), wear a USAF-style uniform, there would be someone walking behind that member carrying a large blaze orange sign that had a gigantic arrow pointing down at the person in the USAF-style uniform that said "Hey, this person is a big fat military faker. They're not military, so please, for the love of all that is holy and right with the world, do not salute this person, call them 'sir' or 'ma'am', imply in any way shape or form that they are possibly connected with any of the uniformed services and especially not the United States Air Force, and whatever you do, don't give them a discount for being in uniform, and if you're particularly feeling saucy today, call the FBI and report them as being a big fat faker, mmmkay?"

We seem to be getting off topic, but the Air Force has a clear review of the status of Civil Air Patrol personnel, and that is defined in Air Force Instruction 10-2701, Chapter 1.   For those adults that like to 'play military dress up', it is what it is :angel:
RM

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

We seem to be getting off topic, but the Air Force has a clear review of the status of Civil Air Patrol personnel, and that is defined in Air Force Instruction 10-2701, Chapter 1.   For those adults that like to 'play military dress up', it is what it is :angel:
RM

I keep a printout of AFI 10-2701 in my CAP binder.

Do you mean this part?

1.3.2. Uniform Wear and Personal Appearance. CAP members are authorized to wear CAP or Air Force-style uniforms in accordance with CAP regulations (civilian clothing may be worn when specific missions dictate). The Air Force controls the configuration of the Air Force-style uniform worn by CAP members.


It says nothing about "wanna bes," or "adults wanting to "play military dress up."

Nor does it say anything about any kind of relationship between CAP and the USO being verboten.

[RADIOMAN015]

We seem to be getting off topic, but the Air Force has a clear review of the status of Civil Air Patrol personnel, and that is defined in Air Force Instruction 10-2701, Chapter 1.   For those adults that like to 'play military dress up', it is what it is :angel:
RM

I keep a printout of AFI 10-2701 in my CAP binder.

Do you mean this part?

1.3.2. Uniform Wear and Personal Appearance. CAP members are authorized to wear CAP or Air Force-style uniforms in accordance with CAP regulations (civilian clothing may be worn when specific missions dictate). The Air Force controls the configuration of the Air Force-style uniform worn by CAP members.


It says nothing about "wanna bes," or "adults wanting to "play military dress up."

Nor does it say anything about any kind of relationship between CAP and the USO being verboten.

Please refer to AFI 10-2701 para 1.3:
....." 1.3. Status of CAP Personnel. CAP is not a military service and its members are not subject to the UCMJ. CAP members voluntarily perform Air Force-assigned missions.CAP membership does not confer upon an individual any of the rights, privileges, prerogatives or benefits of military personnel, active, reserve, or retired. While CAP is not a military service, it uses an Air Force-style grade structure and its members may wear Air Force-style uniforms when authorized. Air Force protocol requirements do not apply to CAP members.......

RM

[FlyTiger77]

Please refer to AFI 10-2701 para 1.3:
....." 1.3. Status of CAP Personnel. CAP is not a military service and its members are not subject to the UCMJ. CAP members voluntarily perform Air Force-assigned missions.CAP membership does not confer upon an individual any of the rights, privileges, prerogatives or benefits of military personnel, active, reserve, or retired. While CAP is not a military service, it uses an Air Force-style grade structure and its members may wear Air Force-style uniforms when authorized. Air Force protocol requirements do not apply to CAP members.......

RM

Which has absolutely no impact on how the USO, also a civilian organization, operates its (wonderful) business. The USO is no more bound by an AFI than McDonald's is.

Now, having said that, there should be no routine expectation that CAP is entitled to use the (wonderful) services of the USO. However, the USO, at its perogative, can (and has) make its (wonderful) services available to CAP.

[abdsp51]

Please refer to AFI 10-2701 para 1.3:
....." 1.3. Status of CAP Personnel. CAP is not a military service and its members are not subject to the UCMJ. CAP members voluntarily perform Air Force-assigned missions.CAP membership does not confer upon an individual any of the rights, privileges, prerogatives or benefits of military personnel, active, reserve, or retired. While CAP is not a military service, it uses an Air Force-style grade structure and its members may wear Air Force-style uniforms when authorized. Air Force protocol requirements do not apply to CAP members.......

RM

Which has absolutely no impact on how the USO, also a civilian organization, operates its (wonderful) business. The USO is no more bound by an AFI than McDonald's is.

Now, having said that, there should be no routine expectation that CAP is entitled to use the (wonderful) services of the USO. However, the USO, at its perogative, can (and has) make its (wonderful) services available to CAP.

+1 if the USO decides to open it's doors and provide services to CAP then so be it.  It is one thing for an organization to offer it's services it's another if someone from CAP tries to use something set aside for others based upon being in CAP.

[NIN]

Please refer to AFI 10-2701 para 1.3:
....." 1.3. Status of CAP Personnel. CAP is not a military service and its members are not subject to the UCMJ. CAP members voluntarily perform Air Force-assigned missions.CAP membership does not confer upon an individual any of the rights, privileges, prerogatives or benefits of military personnel, active, reserve, or retired. While CAP is not a military service, it uses an Air Force-style grade structure and its members may wear Air Force-style uniforms when authorized. Air Force protocol requirements do not apply to CAP members.......

I bet you typed that, with emphasis, from memory.

Because like a broken record, that seems to be the only part you are intimately familiar with.

[RADIOMAN015]

Please refer to AFI 10-2701 para 1.3:
....." 1.3. Status of CAP Personnel. CAP is not a military service and its members are not subject to the UCMJ. CAP members voluntarily perform Air Force-assigned missions.CAP membership does not confer upon an individual any of the rights, privileges, prerogatives or benefits of military personnel, active, reserve, or retired. While CAP is not a military service, it uses an Air Force-style grade structure and its members may wear Air Force-style uniforms when authorized. Air Force protocol requirements do not apply to CAP members.......

I bet you typed that, with emphasis, from memory.

Because like a broken record, that seems to be the only part you are intimately familiar with.

No I didn't, I just answered the others posters selective picking of what is in Chapter 1 of that regulation.    I am familiar with a lot of things in CAP, but I really don't go around memorizing every detail in all those "wanna bee" regulations  

Again I salute that specific USO for helping CAP out of a difficult "Cadet Protection" situation.
RM 

[PA Guy]

[quote author=RADIOMAN015 link=topic=15132.msg277133#msg277133 date=1336938812

Again I salute that specific USO for helping CAP out of a difficult "Cadet Protection" situation.
RM
[/quote]

Your ignorance of the Cadet Protection Program and IACE is only exceeded by your arrogance and loathing of most things CAP and its members.

[PHall]

Again I salute that specific USO for helping CAP out of a difficult "Cadet Protection" situation.
RM

Your ignorance of the Cadet Protection Program and IACE is only exceeded by your arrogance and loathing of most things CAP and its members.

PA Guy - Fixed the quote for you.

RM - Again we ask, why are you still a member of CIVIL Air Patrol?  Aren't you ashamed to be with us wannabes?

[RADIOMAN015]

quote/

/b] date=1336939545]
[quote author=RADIOMAN015 link=topic=15132.msg277133#msg277133 date=1336938812

Again I salute that specific USO for helping CAP out of a difficult "Cadet Protection" situation.
RM

Your ignorance of the Cadet Protection Program and IACE is only exceeded by your arrogance and loathing of most things CAP and its members.
[/quote]

I don't loathe CAP as an organization, and there are very few members that I loathe (and fortunately most have left the program or are inactive).    Regarding IACE, I'd like to point out that this USO support is provided pre IACE and post ICE (and again to the LAX organization thanks for helping CAP :clap:).   I do believe that anyone (and remember those cadets participating in IACE may very well have never been on long flights away from home alone -- That IS a cadet protection issue) who has been travelling for a long time in an aircraft and even waiting in an airline terminal for a long period of time is a potential criminal target.  Everyone gets tired and has the potential to let their guard down .

On the other subject.  I will be perfectly clear -- The Air Force has issued specific regulations concerning CAP, and I think it's a very good idea for everyone in CAP to comply with those regulations.   It would be very difficult for me to see someone from CAP deliberately violating AF regulations, especially on theft of services (benefits) and not report it.  I would likely go to AF authorities and not CAP.  I don't believe that this type of illegal activity occurs very much.  That's the way it is.    
RM       

[lordmonar]

The USO is not the USAF.......ergo your very argument falls in itself.

So.
There is nothing wrong with CAP and CAP member asking the USO for support.

Period....end of story.

The USO is going to do what it wants to do in regards to CAP no matter what you or I think.

Now if you think CAP is lacking in the proper running of IACE.....I am sure that they would just love for you to volunteer...fly down to JFK for the day and help out.

[RADIOMAN015]

The USO is not the USAF.......ergo your very argument falls in itself.

So.
There is nothing wrong with CAP and CAP member asking the USO for support.

Period....end of story.

The USO is going to do what it wants to do in regards to CAP no matter what you or I think.

Now if you think CAP is lacking in the proper running of IACE.....I am sure that they would just love for you to volunteer...fly down to JFK for the day and help out.

Well one has to remember that this is only ONE USO, at ONE SPECIFIC LOCATION, providing assistance to CAP for ONE SPECIFIC ACTIVITY.  It is not the entire USO organization.  The poster of this information even states this disclaimer.

Got to wonder how many CAP units nationwide actually are helping the USO as far as community service (even fund raising assistance)   Wonder if the LAX area units help out much there or even with some fund raising efforts on the USO's behalf :angel:

As far as IACE, IF the USO gentlemen also is a CAP member than I guess CAP has some limited representation while the cadets wait either for their official CAP escort (who really should be scheduled to arrive before any of the cadets arrive anyways) or have to board aircraft individually to return home after the activity.  Likely for all a very long day of travel and potential frustration.
RM
   

[lordmonar]

Again.....if you have problems with the way IACE is planning and provideing for their particpants......I encourage you to join the team and fix it.


As it is.........the IACE team teamed up with another organisation to make it happen.......my god!  Who would have thought that team work to get the mission done would ever get someone yelled at!

[PHall]

RM, how about you stop posting about how messed up IACE until you do a bit of reading. All your posts show right now is your total ignorance of the IACE program.

CAPR 52-16, Chapter 8 and www.capmembers.com/iace

I do realize that these are wannabe CAP regs, but they are the source documents.

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

RM - Again we ask, why are you still a member of CIVIL Air Patrol?  Aren't you ashamed to be with us wannabes?

Sometimes I wonder that myself.

Almost every time something comes up that connects us with the military, or in this case an organisation that serves the military, he, for reasons best known only to himself, feels constrained to point out yet again of his encyclopaedic knowledge of AFI 10-2701 and that we are not military, we are the CIVIL Air Patrol, we are "wanna bes" if we wear the AF uniform, observe military  C&C's, acknowledge CAP officer rank, etc.

[Mitchell 1969]

The USO is not the USAF.......ergo your very argument falls in itself.

So.
There is nothing wrong with CAP and CAP member asking the USO for support.

Period....end of story.

The USO is going to do what it wants to do in regards to CAP no matter what you or I think.

Now if you think CAP is lacking in the proper running of IACE.....I am sure that they would just love for you to volunteer...fly down to JFK for the day and help out.

Well one has to remember that this is only ONE USO, at ONE SPECIFIC LOCATION, providing assistance to CAP for ONE SPECIFIC ACTIVITY.  It is not the entire USO organization.  The poster of this information even states this disclaimer.

Got to wonder how many CAP units nationwide actually are helping the USO as far as community service (even fund raising assistance)   Wonder if the LAX area units help out much there or even with some fund raising efforts on the USO's behalf :angel:

As far as IACE, IF the USO gentlemen also is a CAP member than I guess CAP has some limited representation while the cadets wait either for their official CAP escort (who really should be scheduled to arrive before any of the cadets arrive anyways) or have to board aircraft individually to return home after the activity.  Likely for all a very long day of travel and potential frustration.
RM
   

FWIW, The USO director was not a CAP member. There was neither need, nor mandate, requirement, regulation or anything else that demanded CAP bodyguards to stare at layover cadets for hours. Indeed, for many travelling cadets on any NCSA involving airline travel, such would not even be possible now, as most local CAP people would not be able to access terminal buildings due to TSA regulations. I suppose CAP could contract with "Con-Air" and have them all picked up, though.

Also FWIW - USOs also admit Merchant Mariners, ROTC cadets and DOD contractors. That's beside the point, but please feel free to hang around the entrance to the USO of your choice and let them know that you have decreed that USO is mistaken and therefore they must leave. 

Perhaps a quick lesson on airline scheduling would be helpful?

International departures don't happen all day every day from every airport. They are timed to give the best ARRIVAL advantage, not the most convenient DEPARTURE time. Meanwhile, domestic carriers use the "hub and spoke" system to get to international O&D airports. On top of that, we have time zones.

If an escort lives in Spokane, there is an excellent chance that s/he will leave GEG for LAX between 0600-1200 Pacific, layover in PDX or SEA, then arrive LAX between 1030 and 1600 or so for an international departure of 1830 to 2130, or later, depending on destination.

Meanwhile, a cadet leaves Pittsburgh at 0700 to 1200 Eastern, changes planes at, let's say ORD following a 2 hour layover (with, GASP! No senior member to watch him/her), arriving LAX between 1100 and 1600, Pacific.

So - they could arrive within minutes of each other, one gate away from each other. Or 7 terminals apart.  Or it could be within hours of each other. It comes down to scheduling, seat availability, on-time vs late departures, WX issues, MX issues... and nobody at CAP or anywhere else can control large chunks of that.

One year I had all the cadets at the gate to depart. No escort. Major WX delay on departure and more enroute. He simply was not going to make it unless some powerful juju came into play pretty quick. Here was the plan:

I had somebody waiting at his jetway to snatch and grab. But whether he made it or not, I was putting the cadets on the flight. I had somebody check - escort was going to arrive in host country a day later. I briefed NHQ, appointed a cadet OIC and hoped for the best. It was nobody's fault and nothing else could be done short of Marty McFly and Doc Brown dropping by and offering to get the escort yesterday. Wait, don't tell me - you wouldn't have done that?

The escorts missed connection - no problem, airline eats it. But canceling the cadets tickets after checking in and during boarding? No dice.

Turns out we got him there with 15 minutes to spare. I

Doesn't matter much anyway. I'm no longer at LAX, so I can't participate in the NHQ conspiracy to endanger children at airports. General Mike Teilmann at LAX USO just retired, so he won't be giving away any donuts to CAP cadets (I'm beginning to believe that they must be your personal donuts, the way you are guarding them and defending them from being defiled by USO invited guests that you have proclaimed to be undeserving). And, Pacific IACE seems to be going through SFO. (This years IACE travel uniform includes a green polo. If you can't make it there personally, perhaps you can call SFO USO and tell them "The people in green shirts are wannabees! I forbid them entry!")

[a2capt]

All I gotta say is.. for the unit PAO, RM sure does a bang up job.. on the organization from the outside.

...and must be having kittens and calves over the fact that the unit has fleece jackets that have a similar logo on them as the lightweight AF blue jacket that ma blue encourages it's Airmen to wear, except it says US AIR FORCE AUXILIARY. 'CIVIL' isn't to be seen in large letters anywhere. 

Whatever.

Amazing unit leadership hasn't caught Wind of this..

[abdsp51]

I guess I should dangle my CAC around my neck then.

[Cool Mace]

I could have sworn I read somewhere that travel to and from activities was the members responsibility, not CAP NHQ.

[AdAstra]

For IACE participants, NHQ furnishes an airline ticket to and from their home and the assembly point, either Washington, DC, (for those bound to Europe, Africa or the Middle East), or San Francisco (for those bound to the Pacific Rim). Those participants who live closer (150-200 miles?) are expected to drive to the assembly point at their own expense.

[RADIOMAN015]

All I gotta say is.. for the unit PAO, RM sure does a bang up job.. on the organization from the outside.

...and must be having kittens and calves over the fact that the unit has fleece jackets that have a similar logo on them as the lightweight AF blue jacket that ma blue encourages it's Airmen to wear, except it says US AIR FORCE AUXILIARY. 'CIVIL' isn't to be seen in large letters anywhere. 

Whatever.

Amazing unit leadership hasn't caught Wind of this..

As long as they stay out of the USO, that civilian jacket is fine for wear in accordance with latest interpretation of mumbo jumbo guidance from higher headquarters :angel:
RM

[Eclipse]

It would be very difficult for me to see someone from CAP deliberately violating AF regulations, especially on theft of services (benefits) and not report it.  I would likely go to AF authorities and not CAP.  I don't believe that this type of illegal activity occurs very much.  not stick my nose into everyone's business, even when that intrusion is neither requested nor welcome, and I may have no idea what I am talking about.

That's the way it is.

No charge on the correction...

The USO is a  private non-profit.  They can offer their services to anyone they want.  If you're going to report CAP members being offered USO access to the USAF, can you post it here before you go?  I'm sure a number of us would like to hear that conversation.

[NIN]

As long as they stay out of the USO, that civilian jacket is fine for wear in accordance with latest interpretation of mumbo jumbo wannabe guidance from higher headquarters :angel:
RM

Fixed that for ya, too. You're slippin'

[a2capt]

Send a news crew, film a funny .. for entertainment within the USO itself. ;-)

[RADIOMAN015]

I've got to admit I got more interested in this with all the posting on CAP cadets and others using facilities etc. 

I checked the national site of the USO http://www.uso.org/    Take a look at their IRS Form 990 posted and the rest of their programs. Also look at the locator of where all the USO Centers/Activities are in the United States as well as overseas areas (it's best to scroll through the information on the left side of the screen because all the locations don't immediately pop up on the map --at least on my computer).

Also for the LAX site   
http://www.lawa.org/welcome_LAX.aspx?id=1592  and http://www.bobhopeuso.org/    Wonder if Bob Hope/Estate of Bob Hope gave them a big donation   VERY nice facility :clap:

What it looks to me is this organization is basically set up similar to the American Red Cross.    The Chapters (Service centers) seem to be separate non profit organization incorporated in either the state they are in OR one of the states within their region (if they are covering more than one state) and each has their own governing boards and paid directors and staff, as well as volunteers.

It seems that the National Organization is focused on overseas support (based upon their 990) and likely provides support to the other independent USO's like the National HQ American Red Cross does in regards to certain marketing materials and services.

Almost forgot --- Our local USO was set up at the BX one day (and of course as many of you know I'm in undercover ops always looking for wayward CAP members at the BX :angel:) and I got talking with them.  They are always looking for adult volunteers (and these folks were definitely seniors as far as age goes but with a youthful spirit in what they want to do for the troops :clap:).   I even asked what CAP could do for them, BUT apparently the Young Marines on the base were providing assistance in moving supplies around etc, so I didn't go forward to our DCC.

So again the organization deserves a salute and respect by all for what they do primarily for US military services personnel & their families :clap: :clap: :clap:
RM
         

[Eclipse]

Clap all you want, it won't change the assertions and comments you made.

[RADIOMAN015]

Clap all you want, it won't change the assertions and comments you made.

Hey at least I asked the local USO if they needed CAP's help (well before this subject came up on CAPTALK  -- in fact I had forgotten about it).  How many other CAP units at least make the effort

So for the record.  I personally have no issue with any USO center helping CAP members (especially cadets) when circumstances prevent the CAP organization from helping its' own members . 
RM   

[68w20]

How many other CAP units at least make the effort

Seriously?  Did you really just type that?  Are you really insinuating that you are one of only a few CAP members that is willing to work with outside agencies to accomplish our missions?  You're sitting here hurling insults at the people responsible for facilitating travel for hundreds of international Cadets to 20 different countries around the world; and then you have the audacity to present yourself as a shining beacon exemplifying CAP involvement?

So for the record.  I personally have no issue with any USO center helping CAP members (especially cadets) when circumstances prevent the CAP organization from helping its' own members . 

The CAP organization did help its own members.  It did so by coordinating with an outside agency that came forward, willing to give our members a place to hang out while waiting for their flight.  How is CAP NOT doing its job there?