Benefits and Allowances for a Better Brighter Air Force Auxiliary

[DNall]

Well yes we can surge people in an emergency, and then if ops need to be sustained then we can rotate people thru with a rather heavy logistics demand to keep it moving for a while. That obviously much more doable on Katrina in teh national spot light than for a flood the next state over that didn't make your local news. Hence job protection is highly necessary, both to get you out of work in teh first place & allow you to stay on as needed, within reason.

That's ES, and has nothing to do with augementation. You can indeed put trained & qualified CAP members in part time positions w/o pay. That's what SDFs & CGAux do right now, so obviously it can be done. If you add that job protection AND do the augmentation under a contract that allows them to be surged to full-time in an emergency for up to a couple weeks or whatever w/ some kind of pay so the house payment still gets made, then you're in business.

[SAR-EMT1]

I'll stand by it until confronted with facts to the contrary (as I'm sure you'll stand by your assertion).

So we'll agree to disagree.

But to follow up - in your neck of the woods, how do the "pure" volunteer fire departments handle the 9-5 weekday workload?  Where do they get a crew full of firemen to hang around the station and not work for a living?

In IL where Im from, VFDs get pager from the state. If someone calls 911 to report a fire the dispatcher trips the pagers and everyone leaves work and races to the station in their POV's and gumball lights. - VFDs / VEMS in IL get job protection to do this. The usual requirment is that you live / work within so many miles of the station.  It is possible to live in one town (and be on the fire roster for their night call list) and work in another and be on THEIR day call list.

I work EMS during the day, but I can respond to my local vollunteer unit at night and weekends.

As for ANYONE 'hanging around the station', there isnt anyone at the stations.  Not here or any place around here. -- Im sure in a city like Champaign or Springfield there are full time crews, but my bed is in a town of 3 grand.

[SAR-EMT1]

Sorry about the above, I wasnt trying to spur an argument, just saying how its done around here...

Back to topic.
The AF could theoretically pay us a low per-diem and still save money vs contractors. - Because the AF wouldnt be paying for Healthcare, dental, insurance etc.... And they can set all CAP augmentees at a low level.  Say GS  1-6   Doesnt have to be much of anything.

And the ability to eat at the BX...we musn't forget that 

[DNall]

I think GS9 is robably more appropriate since we're already tied to that for our other benefits. I think the key to per diem being workable is that it wouldn't be paid for day-to-day or standard missions. It would onlu kick in if you are called to duty for more than 48 hours or something along those lines. In otherwords, you should get per diem on Katrina for a week or two, you should not while turning off an ELT at your local airport at 3am. Now, the times when people deploy for over 48hrs is pretty small. The few redcaps that go that long we could just as easily rotate personnel in & out to keep fresh & manage the difference between a surge & a sustainable force.

[SAR-EMT1]

I actually wasnt even thinking of ES when I mentioned a per-diem. I was refering to augmenting. As far as ES is concerned, I totally agree. I cant see us getting anything for an ELT hunt. Katrina Yeah...

[ddelaney103]

Point of Information:

Per diem rates are determined by location and not by GS level.

http://www.gsa.gov/Portal/gsa/ep/contentView.do?contentId=17943&contentType=GSA_BASIC

[Dragoon]

I'll stand by it until confronted with facts to the contrary (as I'm sure you'll stand by your assertion).

So we'll agree to disagree.

But to follow up - in your neck of the woods, how do the "pure" volunteer fire departments handle the 9-5 weekday workload?  Where do they get a crew full of firemen to hang around the station and not work for a living?

The National Volunteer Fire Council [http://www.nvfc.org] and the US Fire Administration [http://www.usfa.dhs.gov/] both have oodles of stats to back up my assertion. See also the IAFC, Firehouse magazine, etc...

In my own neck of the woods, there are enough people who work varying hours at paying jobs in most local departments to adequately staff apparatus responding to emergencies. There are a few houses here and there that have been hit harder than others by the overall decline in volunteerism; that's currently the exception rather than the rule.

A mutual-aid system exists in both volunteer and career fire departments to provide coverage in events that require larger responses or in those infrequent instances that a company is out-of-service or short-staffed.

The initial response to any emergent incident is a 'surge' - that's the nature of the beast. Any responder agency, no matter the type or composition, has to 'shift gears' once the response extends beyond an initial operational period. Human and equipment assets all have their own needs.

Yup, found the quote.  You're right.  2/3's of all the FDs are fully volunteer.  My neck of the woods seems to be outside the norm.

Now, back to the issue of SURGE vs SUSTAIN - most USAF contractor jobs are SUSTAIN - they want the full crew every day, not just a few guys with the rest on pagers.  And truthfully, they don't want a cast of "guest stars" where every day it's different folks.  That's not how DoD operates.  IT may work for VFDs, but not for staff augmentees.

They want the same guys,every day, 9-5.  Unless the job is totally brainless, like lawn maintenance or KP.  It's just too much bother giving any responsbilities to a part timer that you may or may not ever see again.  Too much recurrent training.

So how can CAP address this problems?  My guess is we can't.  Best to use contractors.

But if there was some kind of SURGE function, like assisting units with deployment/redeployment, we may be of some value.

[DNall]

Point of Information:

Per diem rates are determined by location and not by GS level.

http://www.gsa.gov/Portal/gsa/ep/contentView.do?contentId=17943&contentType=GSA_BASIC

That's not what we're really talking about. We're really talking about a set national dollar figure as a percentage of daily salary of a GS level, and really we're talking about something in the range of $50-120, which is below the stated per diem rates. Remeber now, on AFAM a lot of things are reimbursable (food, lodging, gas, etc). This is not meant to replace that, but rather to cover incidental expenses & help defer some of the lost wages. And agian, this would only apply to deployment over 48hrs on issions.For augmentation, if there were to be per diem, it would be by the GSA scale & kick in under conditions of a contract.

Now, back to the issue of SURGE vs SUSTAIN - most USAF contractor jobs are SUSTAIN - they want the full crew every day, not just a few guys with the rest on pagers.  And truthfully, they don't want a cast of "guest stars" where every day it's different folks.  That's not how DoD operates.  IT may work for VFDs, but not for staff augmentees.

They want the same guys,every day, 9-5.  Unless the job is totally brainless, like lawn maintenance or KP.  It's just too much bother giving any responsbilities to a part timer that you may or may not ever see again.  Too much recurrent training.

So how can CAP address this problems?  My guess is we can't.  Best to use contractors.

But if there was some kind of SURGE function, like assisting units with deployment/redeployment, we may be of some value.

You thinking of the wrong positions. It may be that the night shift in operations is short handed on weekends. That's the kind of thing a couple CAP members can stand a station a weekend a month. If they train on their own time to pick up the AFSC & learn the job & cover one shift a month for free when that seat may otherwise have sit open or required someone to work overtime or another employee to be hired, then that's a perfect spot you can fill. You wouldn't be filling any 9-5 or any kind of full-time slots. You'd be putting qualified people in part-time volunteer slots.

Now that does two things. 1) It does act as a force multiplier that MAY allow you to cut back paid staff, more likely it gives you the chance to operate at full-capacity when you'd otherwise be short staffed & streched thin. So maybe it saves a little money maybe not, but what it really is directed at is imporoved performance by force multiplication. 2) Emergencies are going to come up & day-to-day staffs are going to be inadequate to the task. At that point you have a pool of people that have volunteered a day or two a month to help out & keep their skills sharp, and you can surge them to duty for a couple days or weeks by contract provision & with job protections. That becomes an even more meaningful asset that even transends money.

[SAR-EMT1]

-Appluads-   

Now the only question is: how soon can we begin to implement said program?

[Dragoon]

You thinking of the wrong positions. It may be that the night shift in operations is short handed on weekends. That's the kind of thing a couple CAP members can stand a station a weekend a month. If they train on their own time to pick up the AFSC & learn the job & cover one shift a month for free when that seat may otherwise have sit open or required someone to work overtime or another employee to be hired, then that's a perfect spot you can fill. You wouldn't be filling any 9-5 or any kind of full-time slots. You'd be putting qualified people in part-time volunteer slots.

Yup, I'd agree, and always have.  The last two pages of posts have been specifically around the issue of "anything a contractor can do, CAP can do" which I think we've now come to accept just ain't the case.

Yes, nights and weekend work are the kind of thing CAP could do.  Now, can anyone make a list of likely night and weekend USAF support jobs?

[DNall]

Yup, I'd agree, and always have.  The last two pages of posts have been specifically around the issue of "anything a contractor can do, CAP can do" which I think we've now come to accept just ain't the case.

Yes, nights and weekend work are the kind of thing CAP could do.  Now, can anyone make a list of likely night and weekend USAF support jobs?

I think they're referring more to KINDS of jobs, not how often they'd be filled. There would be a few limitations, but for the most part there are not many contractor or civilian employee jobs that a properly qual'd CAP member could help with on a limited time basis.

It's impossible to list the jobs, it's almost everything. All extra duty jobs just for starters. Probably 50% of AFSCs could theoretically be considered. Just about everything. I mean if you have a guy that retired from the AF a year ago & he's willing to come back & work a saturday or two a month & that makes things easier on the guys you got so they can keep up with their training or not have to stay late so often, well that's perfect. I think it's undefinable though. We can talk ideas & such, but honestly that's going to have to be an assessment by the AF down to the tactical level of where they most need the help, and then we're going to have to focus a bit. We can't do everything. It's going to be most workable if we partner with units for the bulk fo our work. They're doing that w/ combo guard/active units now. I thin that's probably a good example to follow.

[RiverAux]

I agree, it would have to be worked out on the individual unit basis since only they know where they've got gaps that need filling.  We can propose general ideas here, but thats about it. 

[Dragoon]

Yup, I'd agree, and always have.  The last two pages of posts have been specifically around the issue of "anything a contractor can do, CAP can do" which I think we've now come to accept just ain't the case.

Yes, nights and weekend work are the kind of thing CAP could do.  Now, can anyone make a list of likely night and weekend USAF support jobs?

I think they're referring more to KINDS of jobs, not how often they'd be filled. There would be a few limitations, but for the most part there are not many contractor or civilian employee jobs that a properly qual'd CAP member could help with on a limited time basis.

It's impossible to list the jobs, it's almost everything. All extra duty jobs just for starters. Probably 50% of AFSCs could theoretically be considered. Just about everything. I mean if you have a guy that retired from the AF a year ago & he's willing to come back & work a saturday or two a month & that makes things easier on the guys you got so they can keep up with their training or not have to stay late so often, well that's perfect. I think it's undefinable though. We can talk ideas & such, but honestly that's going to have to be an assessment by the AF down to the tactical level of where they most need the help, and then we're going to have to focus a bit. We can't do everything. It's going to be most workable if we partner with units for the bulk fo our work. They're doing that w/ combo guard/active units now. I thin that's probably a good example to follow.

If your goal is to put USAF retirees back to work, sure you could do almost anything.

But most CAP members don't have that background.

Please name the top 10 jobs you think CAP could actually fill to the satisfaction of USAF without the expenditure of additional USAF dollars (that would only come later, if we could show early successes).  Let's move this discussion out of the theorectical and into the practical.

[ddelaney103]

Please name the top 10 jobs you think CAP could actually fill to the satisfaction of USAF without the expenditure of additional USAF dollars (that would only come later, if we could show early successes).  Let's move this discussion out of the theorectical and into the practical.

Now, from the Home Office in Maxwell AFB, Alabama, the Top Ten List of CAP Augmentee positions.

Here we go....

#10 - Passing out towels/b-balls at the fitness center.

# 9 - Checking ID's at the Dining Facility

# 8 - Tool Crib Monitor

# 7 - Answering phones

# 6 - Night desk at the Air Force Lodge

# 5 - </David Letterman>Hmnn...would you believe the top _5_ jobs CAP can perform?

Sorry about that, Chief.</Maxwell Smart>

[Dragoon]

 

Seriously, does anyone have an ideas of things we could do on an Air Force base, given our limitations on training and availablity, that we could convince our members to actually DO in large enough numbers to make it count?

[DNall]

If your goal is to put USAF retirees back to work, sure you could do almost anything.

But most CAP members don't have that background.

Please name the top 10 jobs you think CAP could actually fill to the satisfaction of USAF without the expenditure of additional USAF dollars (that would only come later, if we could show early successes).  Let's move this discussion out of the theorectical and into the practical.

You're coming at this form an illogical direction. You cannot pick up a CAP member & toss them into a missile silo from scratch, no that's stupid.

Right now we do LOTs of things for the AF. You saw Kach talking about tour guides. You may have seen LtCol White around here talking about the EXTENSIVE assistance they've rendered their base. When I was at a guard base we did some beautification projects, aided in deployment prep for our host unit, lost & lots of stuff. Here locally a few years back we had a great relationship with the recruiting Squadron. We put people in the MEPS liaison office helping process applicants, did extensive work with recruiters, including going with them on school visits that benefitted us both.

All those things are already going on in CAP now, and have been going on over our entire history. The first step is accounting for what we do now, paired with pushing it up in scale & importance.

What we want to do is show that to the AF, then say we'd like to do more, look at these examples of augementation programs by SDFs & CGAux, look at these couple AWC papers that have been taken very seriously but CAP wasn't thought of as the resource to respond to these needs, look at these areas where we can make an impact w/ minimal investment which would be offset by savings, look at drawdown putting pressure on some commands & here's the opportunity to have extra labor in reserve to fill as needed so capability does suffer.

What comes out of that is the opportunity to get official training (much of which we can already do now), definition of the scope they want to use us in (that'll evolve with the program), and a coordination effort to select/train/place individuals.

Don't lump it all together & just say we can't stand watch in NORAD right now so it's not worth doing at all. It starts humble & builds up as we go.

[Dragoon]

If your goal is to put USAF retirees back to work, sure you could do almost anything.

But most CAP members don't have that background.

Please name the top 10 jobs you think CAP could actually fill to the satisfaction of USAF without the expenditure of additional USAF dollars (that would only come later, if we could show early successes).  Let's move this discussion out of the theorectical and into the practical.

You're coming at this form an illogical direction. You cannot pick up a CAP member & toss them into a missile silo from scratch, no that's stupid.

Nope, nothing stupid about it. You completely skipped the comment about "showing early successes."

Before we get anywhere CLOSE to that missle silo, you gotta show committment.  You won't get the dollars or support without it. 

So....you need low cost quick wins.

You need things we can do TODAY.  Without much extra money or training, to show we have the dedication and talent to warrant expanding the program.

Otherwise, you're just one of a million unfunded, untried bright ideas.

You make a lot of comments about all this high speed SDF augmentation that we should emulate - do you have any specific examples  of this? 

[DNall]

So....you need low cost quick wins.

You need things we can do TODAY.  Without much extra money or training, to show we have the dedication and talent to warrant expanding the program.

Otherwise, you're just one of a million unfunded, untried bright ideas.

You make a lot of comments about all this high speed SDF augmentation that we should emulate - do you have any specific examples  of this? 

Right now, and all along, we're doing thousands of hours a year spport to the AF, and that's not counting anything ES related.

I explained how this has to go, we have to get an accounting of that support, and we have to press units to push that kind of support up, particularly with recruiting service & base communities.

With that baseline showing a commitment w/o return, we can ask for more significnt responsibilities & explain the concept of a formal augmentation program. They're either going to buy that or they aren't. If they do then THEY will define the jobs & it will be small working up to large. CAP is totally powerless in this process. All we can do is get the ball rolling, after that everything is up to the AF.

SDFs vary widely &I'm talking about a good bit more highspeed than them as the objective here. However, I can give you some examples of what they do, though I only know about a couple states.
http://www.texasmedicalrangers.com/: These guys are basically a state controlled DMAT team. Va has the same thing & just a few month back deployed their med unit to Bosnia (voluntary) as I understand in support of their national guard units going over.

I've posted a bit about the TX Air Wing. They trained up SFs that guard ANG comm units & such - take correspondense work mentored by a retired SF, do OJT shadowing real SFs, do additional training, becoem rated in the AFSC & do the job. We won't be doing those kinds of LE roles, but I mention it because they train unpaid volunteers from scratch to AFSC rated & put them to work.

There's some units links around that'll show you aviation mechanics up to lawyers working wills, trusts, & family legal aid.

Here's some other random stuff:
http://www.calguard.ca.gov/casmr/doings2.htm
http://www.calguard.ca.gov/casmr/NTC1851.htm
http://www.calguard.ca.gov/casmr/mpsalute.htm

The list is pretty endless, you just have to look around.

[fyrfitrmedic]

You're absolutely right - accounting is essential, particularly for man-hours unilized by personnel. This information should be available to both the organization and its stakeholders.

[SAR-EMT1]

^ Bump