Naval Sea Cadets

[Ned]

Ok, I got that off my chest.  Now, back to the orignial thread.....  

Ahh, but this is more  fun. 

This was always my favorite:

Joey: All right, Rach. The big question is, "does he like you?" All right? Because if he doesn't like you, this is all a moo point.
Rachel: Huh. A moo point?
Joey: Yeah, it's like a cow's opinion. It just doesn't matter. It's moo.
Rachel: Have I been living with him for too long, or did that all just make sense?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fLwYpSCrlHU

[JAFO78]

My youngest son was involved in this program through his middle school last year. He loved it very much. Something happened and he changed his mind. Stayed in the program as it was a school based class. He turned in his uniform, and stopped going to training weekends. Finished class with a good grade. When we moved over the summer and changed schools he wanted to get back in. The new school had this program but it was now an after school deal, and he passed. I think he just had a change of mind.

Next year he will be in High School, which has AFJROTC. I am tugging him towards that if not CAP.

[Gunner C]

From what I have  been able to gather, the SEAL and EOD programs are more PT academies, allowing the cadets to go through the INDOC vs. actually teaching anything related to being a SEAL or EOD.  Also, an overall orientation to Navy EOD or Spec War as a possible career field.

I can't see teenage cadets making night swims, dragging along training charges in surf, trying to attach them a a pier.  Yeah, I'm thinking it's a lot of PT, movies, and  . . . well, I'm not sure what else they could do.  I don't think they'd let the cadets go to SEAL beach parties. 

Although, from this article, making an 1100 yard open ocean swim with no fins aint no joke.  In addition to SCUBA training.  Oh well, its a mute point now.

http://resources.seacadets.org/public_affairs/articles/2005/art_050721.pdf

You're right.  That takes a fit body and a resolute attitude.  Open water is MUCH more difficult than a pool.  Got the t-shirt and it's not something that I'd like to do again. Correct - mute moot point

[Flying Pig]

Yeah, open water is a serious deal.  Nothing like getting a mouth full of cold salt water when your already sucking wind to ruin your day.  Of course, Okinawa in the summer time, it aint to bad as long as you dont try to swim over the top of a coral reef with the tides out!
Wow... I cant believe there was a time in my life where I got paid to literally eat, shoot and work out.  Those were the days!

[Gunner C]

"A breath of water is like no breath at all."

SF Underwater Operations Course Class 78-02

[Flying Pig]

"Oh Crap....Im a long way from shore"  Sgt. Robert Steht, USMC / 1997 

I hear that SF Course is the stuff of nightmares!?  There is a lot to be said for Jump Wings and SCUBA on the same uniform. 

[Gunner C]

Just fin hard and try not to breath too much.    Cross-overs were the worst.  Bobbing wasn't that bad.  Hundreds of flutter kicks with fins on with your mask filled with water sucked.  The runs were 5 mile sprints (seemed like).  All in all a fun few weeks.    It beat a sharp stick in the eye.   

SFUWO badge with jump wings just meant two time loser.     Actually, there's a lot to be said about just being a Marine.

[flyguy06]

There are a lot of things in the Cadet Program I wish were differant. I wrote a thread about in the Lobby forum. Its a shame when I get a parent that comes to me and want to enroll their son in CAP because he needs the discipline and I have to tell them , we are not that kind of program. Go see the Young Marines. Why should I have to do that? Parents see uniforms and they see military when they see CAP and they assume its a program similar to YM's. But why arent we?

[jimmydeanno]

There are a lot of things in the Cadet Program I wish were differnt. I wrote a thread about in the Lobby forum. Its a shame when I get a prent that comes to me and want to enrll their son in CAP because he needs the discipline and I have to tel them , we are not that kind of program. Go see the Young Marines. WHy should I have to do that? Parents see uniforms and they see military when they see CAP and they assume its a program similar to YM's. But why arent we?

I think all parents enroll their kids because they want them to get many of the things the military does well built in.  That includes discipline, attention to detail, leadership traits, integrity, selflessness, etc.  So to say that our program "isn't that kind of program," to me, is a little off.

All of our cadets get discipline.  It's not screaming in your face, pushing in the mud discipline, but drill, uniforms, expectations, etc all build it.

Yeah, we're not in the business of turning the kid with armed robbery convictions into a model citizen, but there's probably something they could learn if they chose to join.

[JayT]

There are a lot of things in the Cadet Program I wish were differnt. I wrote a thread about in the Lobby forum. Its a shame when I get a prent that comes to me and want to enrll their son in CAP because he needs the discipline and I have to tel them , we are not that kind of program. Go see the Young Marines. WHy should I have to do that? Parents see uniforms and they see military when they see CAP and they assume its a program similar to YM's. But why arent we?

This is definately a case of 'the grass is greener on the other side.'

Look, we all know that standards and protocols are different accross Wings and Squadrons. What makes you so sure the YM isn't the same way?

Everyone on these whines about the old days, and how things were toughter 'WIWAC' or 'Over in the Super Special Ranger Commando Corps,' but there seems to be precious little suggestions on how to change it past 'make things tough again' and the like. We're dues paying members. If we don't like something, we change it.

[flyguy06]

There are a lot of things in the Cadet Program I wish were differnt. I wrote a thread about in the Lobby forum. Its a shame when I get a prent that comes to me and want to enrll their son in CAP because he needs the discipline and I have to tel them , we are not that kind of program. Go see the Young Marines. WHy should I have to do that? Parents see uniforms and they see military when they see CAP and they assume its a program similar to YM's. But why arent we?

I think all parents enroll their kids because they want them to get many of the things the military does well built in.  That includes discipline, attention to detail, leadership traits, integrity, selflessness, etc.  So to say that our program "isn't that kind of program," to me, is a little off.

All of our cadets get discipline.  It's not screaming in your face, pushing in the mud discipline, but drill, uniforms, expectations, etc all build it.

Yeah, we're not in the business of turning the kid with armed robbery convictions into a model citizen, but there's probably something they could learn if they chose to join.

Jimmy,

Maybe in your community thats why parents put their kids in CAP. But my communityis ful of those kids with issues whose parents want their kids to be a in a positive program before they wind up in jail or dead. Yes, I have cadets that have behavioral challenges and a few have had run ins with the law. So yes,I deal with "those" kinds of kids.

[Instructor Disbrow]

I am a Sea Cadet Instructor.  These trainings are real and I have 2 children in the sea cadets and they have been on a combined 7 trainings ranging from Firefighting to Scuba School.  The Seal Training and EOD Diving School and the Special Boats trainings are the most elite and highly sought after.  If you would like more specific information just let me know!

[Instructor Disbrow]

Actually the Sea Cadets is not a Navy Recruiting organization.  Yes, there are big advantages for an accomplished Sea Cadet that joins the Navy.
- Can start at Day 1 getting paid as an E-3
- Promoted to E-3 at the completion of boot camp
- much of the course work the Cadets do does not have to be repeated when they join the Navy
- the cadets are better prepared for military life and thus are in better positioned to accomplish what they need to do in order to succeed and advance in the armed services.

But they are no more of a military recruiting org. than the boy scouts or the CAP.

In fact the CAP, from what I understand has a direct tie to the USAF, where as the Sea Cadets receives no funding from the Navy.

The big difference in the training that is available to Sea Cadets is that they have to pay small fees for them and yearly dues.
If you want any other information please let me know!

They appear to do a very good job meeting its primary purpose -- Navy recruiting.  CAP's cadet program on the other hand seems sort of unfocused and may be trying to do a little too much. 

Sea Cadets aren't a Navy program, but they seem to be getting as much, if not more, support for their programs from the Navy than we do from the Air Force.  Heck, in my state the sea cadets have better access to military facilities than CAP.

[Spaceman3750]

Its a shame when I get a parent that comes to me and want to enroll their son

This seems a bit backwards to me. Why would we want someone who has been forced here by their parents? Personally, I would think we would care more about the cases of a kid wanting to join than their parents telling them that they're joining.

[C/Martin]

Evey porgram has a positive in something they do best than all other programs. In JROTC I tend to see better drill in uniforms. In CAP I see a willingness to serve at all ages and an oustanding leadership program better than JROTC (or at least my JROTC unit's program). In the Sea Cadets, from my knowledge and opinion, they have better summer training opportunities and are more career related. I know nothing of the Young Marines really.

Basically, if you are looking for job-oriented programs, Sea cadets is the way to go even if you want to go Air Force. Cause most Naval jobs have an equivalent to any branch.

[SarDragon]

Evey porgram has a positive in something they do best than all other programs. In JROTC I tend to see better drill in uniforms. In CAP I see a willingness to serve at all ages and an oustanding leadership program better than JROTC (or at least my JROTC unit's program). In the Sea Cadets, from my knowledge and opinion, they have better summer training opportunities and are more career related. I know nothing of the Young Marines really.

Comparison between Sea Cadets to CAP is difficult because of the differences in focus and content of the summer activities. They accomplish different things for their programs.

Basically, if you are looking for job-oriented programs, Sea cadets is the way to go even if you want to go Air Force. Cause most Naval jobs have an equivalent to any branch.

Really? Please tell me what the AF equivalents are for the following ratings:
AB, AW, BM, BT, DC, FT, GMM, GMT, GS, HT, IC, ML, MM, MN, MT, ND, PM, QM, SB, SH, ST, TM, and any of the Nuclear Power specialties.

This list is about 20% of current Navy ratings; 80%, IMHO, doesn't constitute most.

We'll discuss the Army later.

[TCMajor]

Dave,

   You are absolutely correct.  You can't compare the two organizations because they don't even have the same mission.  While I like the Sea Cadets and I appreciate their mission, I am with CAP because I believe in our mission.

  For cadets, it boils down to what do you want to accomplish with your cadet career.  The training available in CAP is focused on our mission, and the development of strong aerospace leaders .  I would challenge you to run out of "cool" things to do as a CAP Cadet.  My guess is that you would run out of time as a Cadet before you run out of great training.  Sometimes you have to put a little effort in to get the "cool" to happen, but it is there. 

  We adults that are in Cadet Programs, its our challenge to help the Cadets realize their goals.  Lord knows there can be plenty of roadblocks thrown in front of us.  Sometimes its hard, but its always worth it when we succeed for the Cadets. 

  Dave, we gave up on youth training in the Army when they stopped sending us the reform school kids.   

[jb512]

Before we all start insulting each other.  I had one reason for looking into the Sea Cadets and wanting to see about joint training.  My son.  Im not looking for an argument about which program is better.  He is 11 years old and is dying to get into CAP.  In addition, he is a very avid swimmer and has a wall full of ribbons and medals from swimming.  The kid loves anything to do with water.  He is also looking forward to me finishing my Glider CFI so I can start teaching him to fly.
I thought if I could get CAP or the Sea Cadets to allow him to attend some of the Naval training and be in CAP he would literally have the best of both worlds.  He would love to do the SEAL Challenge or the SCUBA training just to name a Not to mention the other cadets who would attend also.  This idea sounds like it would be a great National Special Activity.  Navy EOD Orientation!

I was a League Cadet when I was 11 and I loved every minute of it.  I remember that we used to stay in the navy barracks on our "drill weekends", got to do a damage control simulator, and my mom escorted Sea Cadets to California for training by Navy Company Commanders.  It was my introduction to the cadet world and while CAP has good flight programs, the USNSCC has quite a bit to offer as well.

[DBlair]

I like the Sea Cadets training list. I wish we could get some of our cadets to piggy back these courses!  Does anyone have any experience with these or the Sea Cadets in themselves?  There is a Sea Cadet unit here in Fresno, but I dont know anything about them.

TRAINING SCHOOLS

AIRMAN TRAINING (BASIC & ADVANCED)
AIR TRAFFIC CONTROL TRAINING
FAA GROUND SCHOOL
CULINARY ARTS TRAINING
MEDICAL TRAINING (GENERAL, FIELD, SURGICAL & DENTAL TECH)
FIREFIGHTING TRAINING
PHOTO JOURNALISM TRAINING
CEREMONIAL GUARD
SUBMARINE SEMINAR
MARKSMANSHIP TRAINING
CONSTRUCTION BATTALION (SEABEE) TRAINING (BASIC & ADVANCED)
MINE WAREFARE OPERATIONS TRAINING
MUSIC SCHOOL
SEAL TEAM TRAINING
EXPLOSIVE ORDNANCE DISPOSAL TRAINING
AMPHIBIOUS TRAINING
PETTY OFFICER LEADERSHIP ACADEMY
MASTER-AT-ARMS TRAINING (MILITARY POLICE/LAW)
JUDGE ADVOCATED GENERAL (JAG) TRAINING
SAILING SCHOOL
SCUBA SCHOOL
SEAMANSHIP TRAINING
SHIPBOARD TRAINING
LIVE ABOARD NAVY & COAST GUARD SHIPS & SHORE STATIONS FOR TWO-WEEKS.

To be honest, I've noticed a lukewarm response from CAP Cadets about a variety of the NCSAs we offer. I hear many wishing that Combat Controller Orientation Course, Survival School, and Security Forces Orientation Course were actually NCSAs, and that NHQ would develop more activities along those lines.

That being said, if we offered even a few of those Sea Cadet courses mentioned above as NCSAs, Cadets would be going crazy rushing to apply since they are right in line with what the Cadets are always requesting.

[BillB]

Daniel....Several areas you list used to be CAP special acts. There was an FAA Orientation Course that gave the basics of Air Traffic Control, Control Tower operations etc. Florida also ran cadets through the Air Force Survival School at Eglin. Many of the others could be run as Wing level Special Acts, or even offered at the Squadron level. It would take an aggressive Wing DCP or Wing Director to institute many of those activities, and in Florida there are military base sites that offer many of those training areas. Florida Wing used to offer Firefighting training at Eglin AFB. They also offered Marksmanship training at MacDill, Homestead and Tyndall AFB as well as the Florida Highway Patrol Academy at Tallahassee. Training on many of the areas you list are still possible such as Weather Specialist at Camp Blanding or Aviation Powerplant Maintance at several AFB. If there is an Air Force Base in your Wing, many training areas would probably be available if someone would check with the Base.