Paint Ball for Cadets

Started by Sm_Morgan, December 13, 2008, 05:24:29 AM

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Sm_Morgan

Can the cadets go play paint ball in lieu of squadron meeting march 2009 there are 5 Tuesdays and I wonder can we take the kids to play paintball or is that against regulations?

jeders

Not as a squadron activity you can't.
If you are confident in you abilities and experience, whether someone else is impressed is irrelevant. - Eclipse

Eeyore

When I was a cadet we went paint balling 3-4 times a year as squadron activities.

Sadly, times have changed.

Eclipse

Quote from: CAPR 52-16, Page 7
c. Weapons. There will be no firearms, air guns, paint guns or any device that could be used as a weapon at any cadet activity.

For those of us on the conservative side of the house, the "um...we all just happened to show up hear at the same time..." argument doesn't fly, either.

"That Others May Zoom"

IceNine

"All of the true things that I am about to tell you are shameless lies"

Book of Bokonon
Chapter 4

fyrfitrmedic

 While there are units out there that bend the rules for this sort of thing (and a unit or two that has group pics in uniform from paintball matches hanging up at their HQ), it's a bad idea.
MAJ Tony Rowley CAP
Lansdowne PA USA
"The passion of rescue reveals the highest dynamic of the human soul." -- Kurt Hahn

winterg

I am neither condoning or condemning the practice.  Just curious what regulation or guideline this sort of activity is covered under.  I know the cadet programs reg, just don't remember paintball in it.

winterg

Nevermind.  Found it.

CAPR 52-16

1-4. Safety Policies Related To The Cadet Program

     c. Weapons. There will be no firearms, air guns, paint guns or any device that could be used as a weapon at any cadet activity.

Eclipse

Yes, um, as I quoted 3 ticks above... ???

"That Others May Zoom"

winterg

Quote from: Eclipse on December 13, 2008, 03:27:21 PM
Yes, um, as I quoted 3 ticks above... ???

I just got home from work at 3am and was tired.  Missed your post.  Don't you dare give me a frowny face!  :)

Pingree1492

We've done "Squadron" paintballing before- we just did it on weekend, and made it VERY clear that it was an optional Non-CAP event  (similar to taking a bunch of cadets bowling or to the movies).  No one wore uniforms (they would have been sent home if they had), and no one used titles.  We also had several parents, relatives and siblings come out and play as well- it made for a really fun day.

If you want to do it, I don't see why you can't do it as an optional, non-CAP "bonding" event.  Just don't do it in place of a meeting.
On CAP Hiatus- the U.S. Army is kindly letting me play with some of their really cool toys (helicopters) in far off, distant lands  :)

NIN

In NH, we have an outdoor laser tag outfit that, IMHO, is way more fun that paintball and way cheaper.

Took my unit there back in September. I was expecting to be rather "ho-hum" and I wound up having an absolute blast.

Darin Ninness, Col, CAP
I have no responsibilities whatsoever
I like to have Difficult Adult Conversations™
The contents of this post are Copyright © 2007-2024 by NIN. All rights are reserved. Specific permission is given to quote this post here on CAP-Talk only.

JoeTomasone

Quote from: winterg on December 13, 2008, 09:44:47 AM

CAPR 52-16

1-4. Safety Policies Related To The Cadet Program

     c. Weapons. There will be no firearms, air guns, paint guns or any device that could be used as a weapon at any cadet activity.


Talk about your overly broad and conflicting reg!   My immediate thought when I saw this was "OK, so all  Ground Team members need to lose their knife"... 

Taken to the extreme..... I can see some overzealous Reg-inator outlawing tent stakes, stake hammers, shovels, screwdrivers, etc, etc... 


At any rate, most units that I've seen do paintball do it exclusive of CAP.   However, I did hear a rumor that one Group or Wing (or higher?) Commander said something along the lines of, "If CAP members organized it, and it was announced at a CAP meeting or through CAP channels, and it was open primarily to CAP members, it's a CAP event" and put a kabosh on it.   I don't recall who or where anymore.

..Just sayin'...  :D

mprokosch11

Why can't they all go as "friends?" If the cadets show up in the woods without uniforms or senior members then they are technically no different from any other kid.

They are having a friendly get together with their buddies.
C/Capt Matthew A. Prokosch, CAP
New York Wing
Utica Cadet Squadron (NER-NY-162)

JayT

Quote from: JoeTomasone on December 13, 2008, 06:14:55 PM
Quote from: winterg on December 13, 2008, 09:44:47 AM

CAPR 52-16

1-4. Safety Policies Related To The Cadet Program

     c. Weapons. There will be no firearms, air guns, paint guns or any device that could be used as a weapon at any cadet activity.


Talk about your overly broad and conflicting reg!   My immediate thought when I saw this was "OK, so all  Ground Team members need to lose their knife"... 

Taken to the extreme..... I can see some overzealous Reg-inator outlawing tent stakes, stake hammers, shovels, screwdrivers, etc, etc... 


At any rate, most units that I've seen do paintball do it exclusive of CAP.   However, I did hear a rumor that one Group or Wing (or higher?) Commander said something along the lines of, "If CAP members organized it, and it was announced at a CAP meeting or through CAP channels, and it was open primarily to CAP members, it's a CAP event" and put a kabosh on it.   I don't recall who or where anymore.

..Just sayin'...  :D

How would you reword that regulation?
"Eagerness and thrill seeking in others' misery is psychologically corrosive, and is also rampant in EMS. It's a natural danger of the job. It will be something to keep under control, something to fight against."

IceNine

Quote from: mprokosch11 on December 14, 2008, 12:45:10 AM
Why can't they all go as "friends?" If the cadets show up in the woods without uniforms or senior members then they are technically no different from any other kid.

They are having a friendly get together with their buddies.

Because they can't.  How is there even a question in your mind that this would in any way be in the same realm as a good idea?  Ok so back in '76 you could, but you can't now.  I am totally on the side of the wing king that says if you do this as an open invitation at a meeting with the specific intent of CAP members and friend/family attending you are then sactioning this event.

Any way your word it, try to get around it, whatever you are still openly and very clearly breaking the regs.  And in case you haven't gotten word, when you choose to violate the regs any reprocussions of that come back on the commander at that specific level.  If this means that a cadet gets hurt, or naughty woodland encouters happen, or whatever you have essentially written off CAP and assumed liability personally.  These regs are not there to stop people from having a good time, they are put in place to prevent uncomfortable, unnecessary conversations.  And believe it or not a lot of this is 20-20 hindsight or fallout from some other knucklehead that chose poorly in the past.

Any correlation to CAP with list-serv's, phone chains, annoucements, mailings, etc make this a CAP bullet point item and do not make it ok.
"All of the true things that I am about to tell you are shameless lies"

Book of Bokonon
Chapter 4

brasda91

Quote from: mprokosch11 on December 14, 2008, 12:45:10 AM
Why can't they all go as "friends?" If the cadets show up in the woods without uniforms or senior members then they are technically no different from any other kid.

They are having a friendly get together with their buddies.

I wouldn't have a problem with it.  As the reg's state at any cadet activity.  If they are not in CAP uniform and not meeting under the CAP name, it's not a cadet activity.

If several of the cadets go to the same school and are in some of the same classes, do you consider school a cadet activity?  No, of course not.

Once we take our uniform off and put on civilian clothes, like you said, we're just like any other citizen.  Whereas, if you are in the military, that's another story.  You're in the military 24/7.  CAP isn't the same.
Wade Dillworth, Maj.
Paducah Composite Squadron
www.kywgcap.org/ky011

hatentx

along the same lines dont cadets get the chance to use the weaponers as well.  That would be illegal according to the regs as well but it is done.

NIN

Quote from: hatentx on December 14, 2008, 07:34:20 AM
along the same lines dont cadets get the chance to use the weaponers as well.  That would be illegal according to the regs as well but it is done.

Oh, heck, cadets get opportunities to do things like shoot M-16s and M-249s.. Nobody's saying that properly handled firearms on a range with appropriately rated instructors is a bad thing.

Way back when I'd first gotten out of the Army I was driving up the main drag in my home town enroute someplace with my girlfriend, and I look over near my high school and standing on the street corner is one of my cadets, in his CAP fatigues (we'd not switched to BDUs yet) with one of our basic training cadets, and in his hand is a pair of nunchucks. 

You can imagine the string of unprintables out of my mouth as I whipped the car around one of the boulevard turns and came screaming back in the opposite direction back to that intersection.  I pull up to the street corner, roll the passenger side window down, and say "Excuse me, Airman Koufalis..."  It was funny watching this kid suddenly realize what was going on and trying to "hide" the nunchucks...

Turns out that there had been color guard practice or something that day, and he was waiting with this kid from basic training (who'd come along to check out the color guard) for his mom to pick them up.  The "why are you carrying nunchucks?" question was followed by a set of reactions that I would best describe as "What nunchucks?  Oh, wait, where did these two sticks connected by a short length of chain come from?  Aliens must have teleported those into my hands when I wasn't looking.."

The counseling statement delivered the following Tuesday was classic, too.

Darin Ninness, Col, CAP
I have no responsibilities whatsoever
I like to have Difficult Adult Conversations™
The contents of this post are Copyright © 2007-2024 by NIN. All rights are reserved. Specific permission is given to quote this post here on CAP-Talk only.

JoeTomasone

Quote from: JThemann on December 14, 2008, 03:25:06 AM

How would you reword that regulation?


CAPR 52-16

1-4. Safety Policies Related To The Cadet Program

     c. Weapons. There will be no firearms, air guns, paint guns or any device that is normally used as a weapon at any cadet activity with the exception of those items permitted to be carried by a Ground Team member or as otherwise permitted by regulation.


How's that?