Squadron Flight Sergeant

[titanII]

Not a 100% correct. I couldn't pass PT for the longest time because I was 60 pounds heavier than I am now. I worked real hard then, with commendations to prove it. Now I am a Flight Sgt (and a SSgt going for TSgt). Not promoting is an area that can be black and white in most situations, but some times it is a grey area. Just food for thought because a huge part of leadership is knowing your men and knowing what holds them back or what pushes them forward.
EDIT: I don't want this to come off any more than simply don't judge the book by it's cover (or in this case judge the rank by the actions). Some cadets do flop in and out of physical fitness, especially if the standards get harder.

Look at it this way:
How could a C/A1C have the necessary experience, education, and training to be a Cadet Commander, or even a Flight Sergeant if:
A: They haven't read, studied, and been tested on the material that teaches them how to do so
B: They (hopefully) haven't served at such a position in their squadron (assuming their squadron isn't giving positions to the wrong people)
C: They haven't served at that position in another instance, like at Encampment, by teaching classes at conference, or heading up and administrating a big event or program

[commando1]

The reason that the cadet was a cadet commander at C/A1C is because it was a new cadet unit with like 5 active cadets. He was, therefore, the most qualified cadet in the unit. He was the squadron commanders' son also. (Which explains a lot).

[AngelWings]

Not a 100% correct. I couldn't pass PT for the longest time because I was 60 pounds heavier than I am now. I worked real hard then, with commendations to prove it. Now I am a Flight Sgt (and a SSgt going for TSgt). Not promoting is an area that can be black and white in most situations, but some times it is a grey area. Just food for thought because a huge part of leadership is knowing your men and knowing what holds them back or what pushes them forward.
EDIT: I don't want this to come off any more than simply don't judge the book by it's cover (or in this case judge the rank by the actions). Some cadets do flop in and out of physical fitness, especially if the standards get harder.

Look at it this way:
How could a C/A1C have the necessary experience, education, and training to be a Cadet Commander, or even a Flight Sergeant if:
A: They haven't read, studied, and been tested on the material that teaches them how to do so
B: They (hopefully) haven't served at such a position in their squadron (assuming their squadron isn't giving positions to the wrong people)
C: They haven't served at that position in another instance, like at Encampment, by teaching classes at conference, or heading up and administrating a big event or program

Good points. I see where you're coming from. I'd say if the person is clearly competent, than they are an exception but the points you do make are very vaild and disqualify most of the people who don't promote on a timely manner.

[Eclipse]

The reason that the cadet was a cadet commander at C/A1C is because it was a new cadet unit with like 5 active cadets. He was, therefore, the most qualified cadet in the unit. He was the squadron commanders' son also. (Which explains a lot).

In cases like these, the proper thing to do is have senior members run the unit until a cadet(s) progresses to the appropriate level to be a cadet commander.

Yes that would take several years.

Robbing a cadet of the followership experience isn't fair to anyone.

[jimmydeanno]

I'd say if the person is clearly competent, than they are an exception but the points you do make are very vaild and disqualify most of the people who don't promote on a timely manner.

If the cadet is competent, they will progress in the program to a point where their grade matches their skill level.  Being competent indicates that they should have no problem getting to those higher grades.  If it were my unit, a C/A1C would be an element leader, or a general element member, regardless of how many cadets there were.

If they want to be a Cadet Commander that bad, they can get promoted about 9 more times and then we'd have the discussion.  Just because someone is the highest ranking, or has the most experience (as little as that may be) doesn't mean that they are the commander.  Having the title of Commander infers greater responsibility than should ever be placed on a C/A1C.

Any unit that does this to their cadets is only hurting themselves because cadets will see that there is no real need to progress in the program, no need to expand the unit, etc, when you can be the top dog at any point along the promotion cycle.

I have a Cadet Commander.  He is a C/Capt and has 40 other cadets under his command.  He has a staff (as small as it may be, and he is responsible for a much larger scope than a C/A1C in charge of 3 other cadets will ever be.  To equate the two is wrong.

My staff for 40 cadets is:

Cadet Commander: C/Capt
Cadet Deputy Commander: C/1st Lt
Flight Commander X 2: C/2d Lt
Flight Sergeant X 2: C/TSgt
Element Leaders X 6: C/SrA-C/SSgt

We didn't have a cadet commander for about 6 months after our C/Lt Col went off to college.  The current C/CC was only a C/SMSgt at the time.  So, we had a flight sergeant who reported to the CDC.

[Spaceman3750]

I think the problem is that seniors look at it like senior staff - we have positions that must be filled (qualified or not). Then we have staff positions that don't HAVE to be filled, but if we don't the commander has to do it (PA, PD, Admin, Personnel, Logistics, etc), and since the commander is busy already we find some schmuck to do it.

Then the commander translates this to the cadet staff positions, not realizing that the senior staff positions are positions where you have things you are required to DO, and the cadet staff positions are built into the program at certain points so you LEARN.

[Danger]

This may be slightly off topic, but at tonight's meeting (which was our commanders last as commander ) told me how he got the deputy commander position at C/Amn . I thought that that should never happen, but it was an interesting story. He got the job instead of two othe C/CMSgt . Just thought I'd share.

[Extremepredjudice]

So an airman got a job over 2 C/CMSgts? Seriously?


That is sort of cruel to the chiefs. Not to mention not fair. Where were the SMs?


Plus the usual objections to a C/Amn getting an officer position. Deptuty commander IS optional.

[SARDOC]

So an airman got a job over 2 C/CMSgts? Seriously?

Sometimes those C/CMSgts are off at college and may not be participating actively...Just one hypothesis

[Extremepredjudice]

So an airman got a job over 2 C/CMSgts? Seriously?

Sometimes those C/CMSgts are off at college and may not be participating actively...Just one hypothesis

True, but an airman rarely knows everyone in the squadron. Especially not the people off at college.

[Eagle]

i agree with Sergeant Donovan, you can NOT take on such a high responsibility with that low grade. Being an C/A1C can mean a few things, either that you're new to the program, so you don't have enough experiance, or that you've been in a while and are just too lazy to promote, which shows alot about your character.

I agree with you that an C/A1C shouldn't have such a high level of responsibility. However, there are examples of cadets who were unable to promote quickly for multiple reasons. One such reason is that they could be having family difficulties, and they have trouble getting to meetings. One thing that happened to me before I transferred is that the Squadron Commander wouldn't let me test, because he didn't want me to pass the cadets in front of me. I tolerated it for about 4 months, and then transferred to a different squadron.

[Aim for the Sky!]

If I remember correctly, this started as a post where an A1C was wondering if he was able to become a flight sergeant, now it's about whether an Amn could become DC, and SMs should fill in as Flight Sergeants. Just sayin'....

[krnlpanick]

If I remember correctly, this started as a post where an A1C was wondering if he was able to become a flight sergeant, now it's about whether an Amn could become DC, and SMs should fill in as Flight Sergeants. Just sayin'....

Welcome to CT!

[titanII]

If I remember correctly, this started as a post where an A1C was wondering if he was able to become a flight sergeant, now it's about whether an Amn could become DC, and SMs should fill in as Flight Sergeants. Just sayin'....

In that case, my answer to the original question is: ideally, the squadron should not let the C/A1C become a flight sergeant at least until he/she has reached C/SSgt. I would recommend to the C/A1C that he/she not take on the responsibility of the flight sergeant position at least until you have gotten your Wright Brothers. But whether or not the squadron will allow the cadet to be a flight sergeant, well that is entirely up to the squadron. YMMV.

[Sgt. Papa]

Another option for the C/A1C would be filling a staff position that really isn't necessary, but gives the cadet experiance outside of the Corps and let's them feel what it's like to feel a bit of command. Maybe putting them as a Safety Officer or something might work. i know in my squadron, we have two flight sergeants, myself, a C/TSgt., and another cadet, a C/SSgt. A corps cadet just promoted to C/SSgt. and we have three high school seniors going off this year, so we're training that cadet to be a Flight sergeant for when i move to First Sergeant. Just food for thought, maybe a support staff position would help?

[Eagle]

Well, in my squadron, we have a situation where a C/A1C has a higher position than a C/CMSgt. The C/CMSgt has not shown the A. Responsibility, or B. the Maturity, to have even a basic leadership position, where-as the Airman who has only been in for a few months and is several years younger shows a higher level of responsibility. 

[Aim for the Sky!]

If I remember correctly, this started as a post where an A1C was wondering if he was able to become a flight sergeant, now it's about whether an Amn could become DC, and SMs should fill in as Flight Sergeants. Just sayin'....

Welcome to CT!

Thanks krnlpanick! Looks like we have a lot of "fun" ahead!

If I remember correctly, this started as a post where an A1C was wondering if he was able to become a flight sergeant, now it's about whether an Amn could become DC, and SMs should fill in as Flight Sergeants. Just sayin'....

In that case, my answer to the original question is: ideally, the squadron should not let the C/A1C become a flight sergeant at least until he/she has reached C/SSgt. I would recommend to the C/A1C that he/she not take on the responsibility of the flight sergeant position at least until you have gotten your Wright Brothers. But whether or not the squadron will allow the cadet to be a flight sergeant, well that is entirely up to the squadron. YMMV.

@Titan, I definitely agree here, with the rank usually comes the experience and training needed for the role assigned that rank. (emphasis on usually)

[Aim for the Sky!]

Well, in my squadron, we have a situation where a C/A1C has a higher position than a C/CMSgt. The C/CMSgt has not shown the A. Responsibility, or B. the Maturity, to have even a basic leadership position, where-as the Airman who has only been in for a few months and is several years younger shows a higher level of responsibility. 

Like I said, "usually", and if they were both C/CMSgts the choice would be clear. However, some would argue that because of his superior rank, NOT because of his ability, the C/CMSgt should have been chosen.

[Struts]

Well, in my squadron, we have a situation where a C/A1C has a higher position than a C/CMSgt. The C/CMSgt has not shown the A. Responsibility, or B. the Maturity, to have even a basic leadership position, where-as the Airman who has only been in for a few months and is several years younger shows a higher level of responsibility. 

Like I said, "usually", and if they were both C/CMSgts the choice would be clear. However, some would argue that because of his superior rank, NOT because of his ability, the C/CMSgt should have been chosen.

Fortunately in Civil Air Patrol it seems to lean more towards ability than grade.

When considering somebody for a position, always alert them once you have decided and start preparing early. Throwing it suddenly on somebody when they did not know they were being considered could overwhelm them.

[Eclipse]

Well, in my squadron, we have a situation where a C/A1C has a higher position than a C/CMSgt. The C/CMSgt has not shown the A. Responsibility, or B. the Maturity, to have even a basic leadership position, where-as the Airman who has only been in for a few months and is several years younger shows a higher level of responsibility.

Then again, you don't reward the poor performance, but that doesn't  mean you give someone who isn't ready the job either.