Losing the term "Officer" as a generic term for Senior Members

[mikeylikey]

Simple fix.  Just remove the 6 month waiting period before promotion to 2nd LT. 

Can anyone really justify the waiting time?  I rarely see those SMWOG going to SLS, or taking AFIADL 13.  They just show up at the meetings and usually most start on their jobs there.  I understand the wait for fingerprints to show up and whatnot, but seriously, why 6 months. 

So now everyone can be an Officer off the bat if they wanted to be!

[afgeo4]

Simple fix.  Just remove the 6 month waiting period before promotion to 2nd LT. 

Can anyone really justify the waiting time?  I rarely see those SMWOG going to SLS, or taking AFIADL 13.  They just show up at the meetings and usually most start on their jobs there.  I understand the wait for fingerprints to show up and whatnot, but seriously, why 6 months. 

So now everyone can be an Officer off the bat if they wanted to be!

Well...  I wasn't promoted to 2nd Lt after 6 months. When I joined, I had a heavy NCO type attitude toward the cadet program. I was too hands-on. In retrospect, I am grateful my supervisor held up my promotion for 3 months and counseled me on what it is that's different between being an NCO and a Lieutenant.

[flyguy06]

Simple fix.  Just remove the 6 month waiting period before promotion to 2nd LT. 

Can anyone really justify the waiting time?  I rarely see those SMWOG going to SLS, or taking AFIADL 13.  They just show up at the meetings and usually most start on their jobs there.  I understand the wait for fingerprints to show up and whatnot, but seriously, why 6 months. 

So now everyone can be an Officer off the bat if they wanted to be!

Well...  I wasn't promoted to 2nd Lt after 6 months. When I joined, I had a heavy NCO type attitude toward the cadet program. I was too hands-on. In retrospect, I am grateful my supervisor held up my promotion for 3 months and counseled me on what it is that's different between being an NCO and a Lieutenant.

I dont get that. How did holding your promotion help you to be a better 2nd Lt? You are who you are no matter what is on your shoulder. especially in a volunteer organization. I was a Captain and the Commander is a Major and I stil knew more about CAP than he did. Rank didnt matter to me.

[Smokey]

To answer the question about names of squadrons......from the regs...20-3...



A proposed name for the unit. Unit names must include the following elements:
1) Identifying prefix - a short identifier, preferably associated with location (example: Shamrock, Dayton, Hot Springs, Midville, etc.). DO NOT use names such as "Black Sheep," "Flying Tigers," etc., or terms descriptive of major functions such as "Communications," "Jeep," or "Rescue," etc.
2) Type of unit (group, cadet squadron, senior squadron, composite squadron, or flight).

So that is the rule for naming.....it is at times ignored.


Now back to your regularly scheduled program....

[afgeo4]

Simple fix.  Just remove the 6 month waiting period before promotion to 2nd LT. 

Can anyone really justify the waiting time?  I rarely see those SMWOG going to SLS, or taking AFIADL 13.  They just show up at the meetings and usually most start on their jobs there.  I understand the wait for fingerprints to show up and whatnot, but seriously, why 6 months. 

So now everyone can be an Officer off the bat if they wanted to be!

Well...  I wasn't promoted to 2nd Lt after 6 months. When I joined, I had a heavy NCO type attitude toward the cadet program. I was too hands-on. In retrospect, I am grateful my supervisor held up my promotion for 3 months and counseled me on what it is that's different between being an NCO and a Lieutenant.

I dont get that. How did holding your promotion help you to be a better 2nd Lt? You are who you are no matter what is on your shoulder. especially in a volunteer organization. I was a Captain and the Commander is a Major and I stil knew more about CAP than he did. Rank didnt matter to me.

It allowed me to understand that to be a good officer, a different type of approach is needed. An officer needs to be a little bit more polished and a little bit more hands off than I was. I had to learn how to let cadets fail as well as succeed. As an NCO, my attitude was "get it done no matter what". I had to learn how to "let them do it and help if they ask for it".

[SarDragon]

So would "Operations Squadron" or "Mission Support Squadron."  Since that's what they do.  So the breakdown would be:

Cadet Squadron
Operations Squadron or MSS
Composite Squadron

Sounds good to me. Since the title of the squadrons should reflect what they do rather than who's in it.

This makes a lot of sense.  Afterall, you have Medical Squadrons, Logistics Squadrons, etc in the USAF.  There should be no reason why a CAP squadron can not be so named.  Even composites could be named what they are.  If a composite does Ground Team primarily (& the cadet program) they could be called (and throw in the squadron number) the 471st SAR Squadron or a unit with a plane could be called the 169th Recon Squadron ~ I don't know.  But something along those lines.

CAPR 20-3 says so. See para 5.c.1).

[flyguy06]

I have a new name for you guys. Regulation Nazis

[arajca]

I have a new name for you guys. Regulation Nazis

Like you didn't already know this...

[flyguy06]

I have a new name for you guys. Regulation Nazis

Like you didn't already know this...

Yeah well

[SarDragon]

I have a new name for you guys. Regulation Nazis

We got rules. The idea is to play by the rules, or work on getting the rules changes. Mr. Pennington made a statement that was incorrect. I cited a reference to that effect.

[RogueLeader]

I have a new name for you guys. Regulation Nazis

[darn] Proud too!! 

[teesquared]

Why don't we call our adult members....


wait for it....




Adult Members??

My two cents worth (that's about all I have left after last weeks' stock market) is that Adult Member about covers all the bases.

[Hawk200]

I have a new name for you guys. Regulation Nazis

Why is it that a person that knows  and follow the rules is termed a Nazi, but those busted or called on  for breaking them are "victimized"? When did it become heroic or commendable to be ignorant of or break rules?

I'd be interested in knowing. Or at least have the reasoning explained.

[mikeylikey]

I have a new name for you guys. Regulation Nazis

Why is it that a person that knows  and follow the rules is termed a Nazi, but those busted or called on  for breaking them are "victimized"? When did it become heroic or commendable to be ignorant of or break rules?

I'd be interested in knowing. Or at least have the reasoning explained.

I wouldn't worry about it.  There are those that do the right thing, and those that don't.  If you do the right thing, and are called names, let it go!  Those calling the names are probably not doing the right things to begin with.  I do think the NAZI reference should be removed though!

[Eclipse]

Good to see Captalk paid their 2008 Godwin's Dues. 

[Major Carrales]

How does following established CAP regulations equate to following the tenets of NATIONAL SOCIALISM?

[COL Land]

BTW...when I joined our Composite Squadron I mentioned I might like to do PT with the Cadets. One of the leadership mentioned that was great as the Cadets thought all of the Senior Members were just that...Senior, as in OLD.

When we first started the ACA's Leadership Development Institute (LDI) as the umbrella command for all of our leadership programs, we initially referred to it as the Officer Leadership Development Institute (OLDI).   It didn't take but one weekend of training before the Cadets started referring to us as the "Oldies"...that title went away quick!   

[ADCAPer]

... many of our "customers" do not want to see anyone under 18 on an actual missing persons search, or aircraft crash, etc...

I'd really like to see this in writing, not passed on by supposed word of mouth, but actually in writing from some of these so called "customers", because I do not believe this is true. I know that there are at least a few units in Georgia who have run this very question by their local EMA Directors and they have no problems working with Cadets when they know that they are properly trained and supervised.

There may be rare instances where a "customer" doesn't want cadets involved, but I believe that is the exception. From my experience the only people who don't want Cadets involved in ES are other CAP members who think that dealing with Cadets is below them.

Now, does this mean that you have to always allow Cadets on a Ground Team? No, not necessarily. But what if you have a Cadet who is qualified and in the Ground Team leader's opinion is mature enough to participate in a mission? What if you have a Cadet who is not only qualified but is on a Ground Team with their parent(s)? My main point is that there is no reason to completely exclude Cadets from ES, if nothing else there needs to be some fresh blood coming up the pipe to replace the old timers, and nothing beats real world on-the-job training.

Also, Cadets more interested in D&C / Honor Guard / etc. over ES? I suggest you examine your attitude and your training program, because while they may not all be interested, a large number of them are. I think the reason that you don't have much interest from your Cadets is because of your attitude towards them.

[BillB]

The only logical arguement I hear about cadets in ES is the liability problem. And in most cases there is no problem when the ES mission has an AF mission number. The comment we must protect our cadets doesn't hold water since the cadets are trained and supervised. In fact exposure to hurricane damage etc provides cadets with new experiences to help shape their maturing. To often senior members with little or no experience in the cadet program consider cadets as children to be protected from life at any cost. They can't see that modern 14-21 year olds are much more worldly and mature than they were at the same age. Cadets I've seen on missions were often better qualified than the senior members on the same ground team.

[RiverAux]

cadets under 18 are not covered under FECA on AFAMs so CAP the corporation is responsible for any injuries that happen to them.  CAPR 900-5 (13).