What Can a VFR Pilot Do?

Started by etodd, March 16, 2019, 07:05:26 PM

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etodd

What can a CAP VFR or IFR Pilot Do? I've been looking in 70-1, 60-3, and maybe its right under my nose. Sure a new pilot who gets his Form 5 can now rent the plane, he can fly with a CFI for training.  But can he transport a plane as part of a MX mission? Or is that strictly for TMP or above? I can't find the particulars.
"Don't try to explain it, just bow your head
Breathe in, breathe out, move on ..."

Eclipse

TMP is an ES ratting with minimum hours.

VFR pilots can rent planes and build hours.

"That Others May Zoom"

etodd

Quote from: Eclipse on March 16, 2019, 07:14:08 PM
TMP is an ES ratting with minimum hours.

VFR pilots can rent planes and build hours.

Yes, but the question was:

QuoteBut can he transport a plane as part of a MX mission?
"Don't try to explain it, just bow your head
Breathe in, breathe out, move on ..."

Eclipse

No.

That requires a...wait...

...wait...

...wait...

Transport Mission Pilot.

"That Others May Zoom"

PHall

And what are the requirements to become a Transport Mission Pilot etodd? (It's in the reg...)

etodd

#5
Quote from: PHall on March 16, 2019, 08:25:08 PM
And what are the requirements to become a Transport Mission Pilot etodd? (It's in the reg...)


Yes, yes, I know what is required to be a TMP.  But I'm obviously overlooking where it says a VFR pilot cannot transport a plane for MX. Or worded differently saying that ONLY a TMP can transport a plane for MX. 

Could the VFR pilot fly the chase plane, as part of a MX Mission? And not fly the actual MX plane in the mix?

I cannot find specifics.
"Don't try to explain it, just bow your head
Breathe in, breathe out, move on ..."

Eclipse

CAP regs rarely tell you want you can't do, they tell you what you can do, in a given situation.

Check 60-3.

Ferry and maintenance flights are missions, you can't fly a mission without the rating.

This is the SQTR:


"That Others May Zoom"

Eclipse

#7
Quote from: etodd on March 16, 2019, 09:24:06 PM
Could the VFR pilot fly the chase plane, as part of a MX Mission? And not fly the actual MX plane in the mix?

No. Both planes in that case are signed into the mission, which is generally an AFAM.

"That Others May Zoom"

Eclipse


"That Others May Zoom"

etodd

Quote from: Eclipse on March 16, 2019, 10:15:59 PM



The verbiege is the same for B9 & C9.

YES!  Thats where I had seen it in the past.  Thanks!

Have a new pilot who "thinks" he can do more than he is allowed to. Maybe this will help him to start working to get through MS, TMP, and hopefully MP one day.
"Don't try to explain it, just bow your head
Breathe in, breathe out, move on ..."

PHall

Quote from: etodd on March 16, 2019, 11:06:59 PM
Quote from: Eclipse on March 16, 2019, 10:15:59 PM



The verbiege is the same for B9 & C9.

YES!  Thats where I had seen it in the past.  Thanks!

Have a new pilot who "thinks" he can do more than he is allowed to. Maybe this will help him to start working to get through MS, TMP, and hopefully MP one day.

Sounds like you may need to review the regs before that next recurring check ride.

etodd

Quote from: PHall on March 16, 2019, 11:37:19 PM

Sounds like you may need to review the regs before that next recurring check ride.

Thats the funny part. I was looking all through 70-1, 60-3 and elsewhere and it wasn't until Eclipse pointed out this separate "CAP AIF ― FLT_LOG_2" that I remembered seeing it.  I wanted that specific wording, and its not in what most  folks think of as the "Regs" , as in a CAPR document.

I'm trying to help our new pilots. Just finished up two last month with their Mission Scanner training and signed them off. Got this third one I'm trying to get motivated.

"Don't try to explain it, just bow your head
Breathe in, breathe out, move on ..."

coudano

#12
MS is *NOT* pre-requisite to TMP.
All you need is a current form 5 and 100 hours PIC.
(and level 1)

MS *IS* pre-requisite to MP.
And you need 175 hours PIC to start flying training funded training missions toward your MP rating (200 PIC to qualify)


Eclipse

No one said it was, but there's a few more things on that list above, not to mention approval,
and most wings aren't going to be letting low-time TMPs fly MX runs unless the stars align or
they are woefully short of pilots.

"That Others May Zoom"

coudano

Quote from: Eclipse on March 17, 2019, 12:08:55 AM
No one said it was, but there's a few more things on that list above, not to mention approval,
and most wings aren't going to be letting low-time TMPs fly MX runs unless the stars align or
they are woefully short of pilots.

Meh, we go out of our way to throw missions that are TMP eligible to TMP's, in order to HELP get them up to 175 as much as we can.

That even includes highbird  (!)

PHall

How do you expect them to build hours if you won't let them fly. MX flight is just about the lowest risk sortie there is.

Eclipse

^ 3-4 hour sorties can be a great way to build time (and bladder), sadly I've had to have a couple
"conversations" with AOBDs, etc., about them being allowed for TMPs.

"That Others May Zoom"

etodd

Quote from: coudano on March 17, 2019, 12:14:14 AM

Meh, we go out of our way to throw missions that are TMP eligible to TMP's, in order to HELP get them up to 175 as much as we can.


Bingo.  Everyday I see how not only are Wings so different, but even Squadrons.

Yes, Our Squadron really tries to help the "new guys" get up to speed.  Do we usually have a MP or CFI fly along on those first missions? Well of course. We also have a few folks that don't mind paying for C-12 to build time as well.

We also combine things as much as possible. We have a 3 leg MX mission tomorrow, 3 man crew, with an AP candidate riding along. We'll circle a couple sites on two of them for him to demonstrate his ability. Hopefully at the end of the day, we will not only have completed the MX Mission successfully, but I'll sign off a new AP as well.

Get people in the air. A plane sitting in the hangar does no one any good.
"Don't try to explain it, just bow your head
Breathe in, breathe out, move on ..."

audiododd

The hardest part for a new pilot (newly minted FAA pilot, not new to the unit) is getting the 100-hours PIC and 50-hours Cross-Country becuase all of that ends up out of your pocket.  Fortunately, I had my license for a few years before joining, so I had those times.  I just had to get my form-5 VFR/G1000 and then apply for TMP.  Both my old CAWG unit and my new AZWG unit were willing to give me MX runs so I could build toward MP (Just recently hit 175-hrs).  Most of the MPs we have here have several hundreds of hours, so they are more than willing to let the new guys take the ferry missions. 
Dodd Martin, MSgt, CAP
MSgt, USAF (Ret.)
Squadron NCO
Safety/Comm/Admin/Personnel/IT
TMP - MO - MS - MRO - MSO

BJD

Be careful with adding extra maneuvers or training to MX sorties (or any non-A5 AFAM).  This is covered in CAPR 60-3, 1-16 (5).