Civil Air Patrol Member's Use of MWR Facilities/Programs?

Started by RADIOMAN015, October 08, 2011, 04:58:04 PM

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RiverAux

Folks, I was making the point that it wouldn't be worth my time to go on base EVEN IF gas were free.  I wasn't stating that I thought it was free.

SarDragon

Commissary - an appropriated funds activity, independent of the exchanges and MWR. Sells products at cost plus a fixed percentage markup (5% ?)

Exchanges - non-appropriated funds activity. Sells products at cost plus a fixed percentage markup (5% ?) The percentages were married up some time back to eliminate price disparities between the two.

MWR - self-sufficient, non-appropriated funds activity, funded in part by exchange profits.

Gasoline - this used to be cost-plus priced, at a price significantly below any off-base prices. This ended some time in the '80s, when the complaints from off-base gas stations got too great to ignore. Since the price does not include state taxes, I'm not sure where the extra profit goes. Have never gotten a straight answer from the exchange folks.
Dave Bowles
Maj, CAP
AT1, USN Retired
50 Year Member
Mitchell Award (unnumbered)
C/WO, CAP, Ret

Cliff_Chambliss

Speaking from limited experience only.
Military Aero Clubs/Flight Training:  The former USAF Flight Training Center/Aero Club at Maxwell AFB allowed CAP Members membership. Aero Club membership was conditional on current CAP membership and would be terminated immediately if CAP membership lapsed.   I believe this was spelled out in AF Man 34-232 but I may be mistaken as it has been a number of years since the club closed and we all moved on.
Restone Arsenal Flying Activity  Redstone Arsenal Alabama.  The US Army Flying Club at Redstone allows current CAP Members membership, aircraft rental, and flight instruction.  Again, the Redstone Flying Club membership terminates if CAP membership lapses.
Gas Station:  It may be a State Thing but CAP members are allowed to buy fuel at the Alabama National Guard Gas Stations.

Limited experience based only on what I have seen/managed/or used. 
11th Armored Cavalry Regiment
2d Armored Cavalry Regiment
3d Infantry Division
504th BattleField Surveillance Brigade

ARMY:  Because even the Marines need heros.    
CAVALRY:  If it were easy it would be called infantry.

BrannG

First off, all your "wanna-be" screams, calm down.

Second, fact is CAP is the United States Air Force Auxiliary, and we are proud to a member of the Air Force Family, as the AOC puts it, CAP and the USAF are brothers and sisters in the Air Force Family. We are required to maintain PT if we are to wear the Air Force uniform, and it would be a nice "thank you" to CAP for performing missions on behalf of the United States Air Force to allow us use of the Commissary, BX, and Fitness facilities. Do we need a right to eat on base? Fact is, anyone can! So no.

No, we don't NEED these items. But yes, it would be a great way for the Air Force to say "Thank you". Why not? Commissary and BX are great shopping areas, and if you live close to a base like I do, it would be great! Fitness - thats a duh. We do after all represent the Air Force when we choose to wear the uniform.


Lackland Cadet Squadron - SWR-TX-007 2012-Current
Kelly Composite Squadron - 42178 (Deactivated) 1994-2000
Cadet from 1994-1998
Senior Member from 1998-2000, 2012-Current
United States Air Force 2000-2006, 0-3

AngelWings

Where I personally am, basically all of the on base facilities are open to us. The BX/CGX (with exception to alcohol and tobacco), the Coast Guard chow hall, the Air Guard dorms/barracks, the on base theater, the gym if I am not mistaken, and the gas station. We actively give back to the base, so it's earned, not given. If any of you were wondering why I eat at the Coast Guard chow hall, it is the only open chow hall. The Air Guard keeps their side on what feels like THREATCON Charlie, and they do not let anyone without a CAC or DoD/DHS card over except when special events take place.

abdsp51

This is something that coincides with the local unit's relationship with the nearby installation. 

AngelWings

Quote from: abdsp51 on May 24, 2012, 03:00:53 AM
This is something that coincides with the local unit's relationship with the nearby installation.
If this is in response to me, I know why it is that way. The ANG side of the base is an Intelligence Wing, with many classified operations being performed there. It is a security matter for them, especially with the fact that there is a lot of dependents on base who'll drive around when bored.

abdsp51

Quote from: Littleguy on May 24, 2012, 03:39:43 AM
If this is in response to me, I know why it is that way. The ANG side of the base is an Intelligence Wing, with many classified operations being performed there. It is a security matter for them, especially with the fact that there is a lot of dependents on base who'll drive around when bored.

Nope in general some units have better relationships with bases than others.  And being an intel wing just means more stringent protocol dependent on the building.  And there is a strict protocol for classified work to be accomplished but that should not bar public or common areas.  And if someone is discussing things in the open bad juju.

rustyjeeper

Quote from: Littleguy on May 24, 2012, 03:39:43 AM
Quote from: abdsp51 on May 24, 2012, 03:00:53 AM
This is something that coincides with the local unit's relationship with the nearby installation.
If this is in response to me, I know why it is that way. The ANG side of the base is an Intelligence Wing, with many classified operations being performed there. It is a security matter for them, especially with the fact that there is a lot of dependents on base who'll drive around when bored.

The proper terminorlogy is not "classified operations".....
it is >
SECRET SQUIRREL stuff  8)

AngelWings

Quote from: rustyjeeper on May 28, 2012, 02:39:06 AM
Quote from: Littleguy on May 24, 2012, 03:39:43 AM
Quote from: abdsp51 on May 24, 2012, 03:00:53 AM
This is something that coincides with the local unit's relationship with the nearby installation.
If this is in response to me, I know why it is that way. The ANG side of the base is an Intelligence Wing, with many classified operations being performed there. It is a security matter for them, especially with the fact that there is a lot of dependents on base who'll drive around when bored.

The proper terminorlogy is not "classified operations".....
it is >
SECRET SQUIRREL stuff  8)
Very true!

Sapper168

Quote from: eaker.cadet on October 08, 2011, 08:19:29 PM
So  is it not cool to park in GO parking when using the base pool? .  I use to date a smoking hot MP who use to house sit for General Barnicke.

Barnicke?... He still owes me money...
Shane E Guernsey, TSgt, CAP
CAP Squadron ESO... "Who did what now?"
CAP Squadron NCO Advisor... "Where is the coffee located?"
US Army 12B... "Sappers Lead the Way!"
US Army Reserve 71L-f5... "Going Postal!"

RADIOMAN015

Quote from: BrannG on May 24, 2012, 12:36:18 AM
First off, all your "wanna-be" screams, calm down.

Second, fact is CAP is the United States Air Force Auxiliary, and we are proud to a member of the Air Force Family, as the AOC puts it, CAP and the USAF are brothers and sisters in the Air Force Family. We are required to maintain PT if we are to wear the Air Force uniform, and it would be a nice "thank you" to CAP for performing missions on behalf of the United States Air Force to allow us use of the Commissary, BX, and Fitness facilities. Do we need a right to eat on base? Fact is, anyone can! So no.

No, we don't NEED these items. But yes, it would be a great way for the Air Force to say "Thank you". Why not? Commissary and BX are great shopping areas, and if you live close to a base like I do, it would be great! Fitness - thats a duh. We do after all represent the Air Force when we choose to wear the uniform.

Let's see --  Joe civilian joins CAP and gets a CAP ID card, does minimum effort at the squadron BUT is in the Commissary every week buying food for his extended family.   Surely that's an "earned" benefit by that CAP member isn't it ??? >:(     

Generally on MWR type facilities (depending upon demand for the services by higher priority service personnel and their dependents), CAP may be allowed to use (e.g. gym/fitness center) and that has been addressed in prior posts.  HOWEVER, personally, I'd like to see all of that better reviewed especially if there's crowding/waiting to use services, BUT I do understand the fiscal realities -- MWR/Services Squadrons need to show very high usage statistics at their facilities, so at some base locations even the local business support group may get access to selected MWR/Services.   

The problem with some CAP members is they live in a "fantasy world of military make believe" thinking they are contributing so much to AF operations that they are earning (entitled to) all these benefits.  This comes up time and time again in all of these posting threads.    My suggestion --  IF any member wants all those benefits than frankly go join the military and perform appropriate military duties to "earn" those benefits. :angel: 

Playing 'military dress up' at a squadron meeting once a week doesn't even come close to approaching the level of those that have "earned" those benefits. >:(  Wow, silly me, I could have just joined CAP and not put in 20 years in AD military service to get at least some of those "earned" benefits that military members get and have been extended to CAP members at some bases  ;). (as you see I'm just not a supporter for giving any pure "civilians" access to any military "earned" benefits).

RM


     



Eclipse

How much longer are we going to put up with this insulting nonsense?

"That Others May Zoom"

AngelWings

RM, stop while you are ahead. Please. For your own good.

RADIOMAN015

Quote from: Eclipse on May 28, 2012, 01:41:12 PM
How much longer are we going to put up with this insulting nonsense?

Well just get the misguided members from posting ridiculous statements regarding getting the same benefits that have been 'earned' by military personnel for their long, dedicated, (and with many today life threatening)  service.   Than I will shut up. :angel:

Otherwise, as you said, google finds a lot of things.  So, Civil Air Patrol is just CIVIL Air Patrol, people should join to serve and not have any expectations with getting ANY benefits earned by military personnel.   In fact all CAP members do have benefits just check it out right here  http://www.gocivilairpatrol.com/member_benefits/.  So use those "earned" CAP benefits. :angel: 
 
RM   

AngelWings

Quote from: RADIOMAN015 on May 28, 2012, 02:53:55 PM
Quote from: Eclipse on May 28, 2012, 01:41:12 PM
How much longer are we going to put up with this insulting nonsense?

Well just get the misguided members from posting ridiculous statements regarding getting the same benefits that have been 'earned' by military personnel for their long, dedicated, (and with many today life threatening)  service.   Than I will shut up. :angel:

Otherwise, as you said, google finds a lot of things.  So, Civil Air Patrol is just CIVIL Air Patrol, people should join to serve and not have any expectations with getting ANY benefits earned by military personnel.   In fact all CAP members do have benefits just check it out right here  http://www.gocivilairpatrol.com/member_benefits/.  So use those "earned" CAP benefits. :angel: 
 
RM   
It is an offered service. If it wasn't offered to us, we wouldn't be there (SF wouldn't be any afraid to say get out to us). We get about the same benifits as Airman Joe Schmo's kid. I've seen bases where they do not allow CAP on base except for their meeting nights. Personally I find it sad.

I want you to explain, in detail, what is wrong with:
Me going to the commisary to buy a pack of gum, an ice tea, some uniform items, and maybe a sandwich or two depending on the day
Me going to the base chow hall to get a bite to eat (with military personnel have in front of line privs.)
Me heading to the gym to keep fit on base when it is a busy day for the gym
Me going to the base theater, which never has much of anyone in it, to go watch a movie after a long days work on base
Me and a group of people at a wing SAR school using barracks when approved by the base commander, which again, don't have that many people in it
Me running in an open to anyone race

You will be hardpressed to find anything wrong with it. My base, in fact, doesn't mind so as long we do not take up too much space or get all of the deserts at the chow hall.

fyrfitrmedic

Quote from: Eclipse on May 28, 2012, 01:41:12 PM
How much longer are we going to put up with this insulting nonsense?

Bloody good question.

RM's a troll and a coward . I find it difficult to believe that he/she/it makes any positive contribution to Civil Air Patrol in any capacity.

There's a certain irony that one who borders on being an "Internet Tough Guy" calls other people "wannabees."

I think it's time he/she/it publicly put up or shut up.

(Apologies to the admins - I had no intention of derailing the thread, I just think enough's enough and has been for some time.)
MAJ Tony Rowley CAP
Lansdowne PA USA
"The passion of rescue reveals the highest dynamic of the human soul." -- Kurt Hahn

Eclipse

Quote from: RADIOMAN015 on May 28, 2012, 02:53:55 PM
Quote from: Eclipse on May 28, 2012, 01:41:12 PM
How much longer are we going to put up with this insulting nonsense?

Well just get the misguided members from posting ridiculous statements regarding getting the same benefits that have been 'earned' by military personnel for their long, dedicated, (and with many today life threatening)  service.   Than I will shut up.

I doubt it, since most of the time you have no idea what you're talking about.
As indicated, MWR is a service offered on base for people who have access and a reason to use it, nothing more, nothing less.

Depending on the base, it is used by military, prior military, and civilians.

"That Others May Zoom"

The CyBorg is destroyed

Quote from: RADIOMAN015 on May 28, 2012, 01:13:26 PM
Generally on MWR type facilities (depending upon demand for the services by higher priority service personnel and their dependents), CAP may be allowed to use (e.g. gym/fitness center) and that has been addressed in prior posts.  HOWEVER, personally, I'd like to see all of that better reviewed especially if there's crowding/waiting to use services, BUT I do understand the fiscal realities -- MWR/Services Squadrons need to show very high usage statistics at their facilities, so at some base locations even the local business support group may get access to selected MWR/Services.   

The problem with some CAP members is they live in a "fantasy world of military make believe" thinking they are contributing so much to AF operations that they are earning (entitled to) all these benefits.  This comes up time and time again in all of these posting threads.    My suggestion --  IF any member wants all those benefits than frankly go join the military and perform appropriate military duties to "earn" those benefits. :angel: 

Playing 'military dress up' at a squadron meeting once a week doesn't even come close to approaching the level of those that have "earned" those benefits. >:(  Wow, silly me, I could have just joined CAP and not put in 20 years in AD military service to get at least some of those "earned" benefits that military members get and have been extended to CAP members at some bases  ;). (as you see I'm just not a supporter for giving any pure "civilians" access to any military "earned" benefits).

If this is your own personal crusade, then why don't you take it up the chain, to Group, and then Wing, and then Region, Commanders?  Be sure to tell Colonel Christopher Hayden, your Region CC, who is depicted on the NER website wearing the AF uniform, about all the "wanna bees" you know who just come to play "dress up," and those who "live in a fantasy world."  Be prepared to cite solid, verifiable statistics, not anecdotes.  I would suggest taking it directly to SECAF, but that would be way jumping the chain, and I do not advise anyone in CAP to do that.

I have never personally seen, met or heard of any CAP member trying to blag freebies at the BX, Commissary, Class Six or Service Station.  You can't, because you have to have a military ID card!

When I have been permitted to use such facilities, it is solely through the largesse of the Wing Commander.  I do not pretend to have "earned" them through membership in CAP, nor do I know anyone who has done this.

If you want to make such claims, you darn well better be able to substantiate them.
Exiled from GLR-MI-011

754837

Quote from: Ground_Pounder on May 28, 2012, 06:25:51 AM
Quote from: eaker.cadet on October 08, 2011, 08:19:29 PM
So  is it not cool to park in GO parking when using the base pool? .  I use to date a smoking hot MP who use to house sit for General Barnicke.

Barnicke?... He still owes me money...

Now that is funny!