CAP Overseas Deployment

[Smithsonia]

OK this is fantasy ball... but they need spotter planes to go up against Somali Pirates.
http://dailystar.com.lb/article.asp?edition_id=10&categ_id=2&article_id=101464

Sign me up and I'll see you in Jabouti.

[Always Ready]

I'm game. If CAP wants to do an overseas deployment, it's fine with me. In fact, I'll be one of the first ones to sign up. Besides, this whole college thing is getting old 

[SJFedor]

I'm in.

[Smithsonia]

Best plane for the mission is probably the P3 Orion. OK I don't know how to fly that one... but second best is a Twin Commander 500. 7-8 hours of gas. Twin engine. High Wing. Short Field. As rugged as yo momma. I've got tons of hours in Shrikes. We'll carry sidearms and laugh at the TSA when they ask us for our local IDs, or want us to be escorted here and there by the FBO kid...

We'll strafe all those who need it and rock our wings to all those we like. We'll carry on like
Van Johnson in a WW2 movie and make goo-goo eyes with the native gals (Dorthy Lamour, she sings at the O-club, and her American friend the nurse, June Allison)

Yeah "it's the pirate spotters life for me."  Oh wait, there's Spencer Tracy, in the tropics, in his leather A2 jacket. I see he's about to call a briefing... I gotta go.

[Al Sayre]

Best plane for the mission is probably the P3 Orion. OK I don't know how to fly that one... but second best is a Twin Commander 500. 7-8 hours of gas. Twin engine. High Wing. Short Field. As rugged as yo momma. I've got tons of hours in Shrikes. We'll carry sidearms and laugh at the TSA when they ask us for our local IDs, or want us to be escorted here and there by the FBO kid...

We'll strafe all those who need it and rock our wings to all those we like. We'll carry on like
Van Johnson in a WW2 movie and make goo-goo eyes with the native gals (Dorthy Lamour and her American friend June Allison) Yeah "it's the pirate spotters life for me."

Sign me up... ID Badges?  We don't need no stinkin' ID badges!

[DG]

Make sure you remember to take your Kevlar seat cushion.

[Spike]

Can I be a pirate instead?

[Gunner C]

Mahe sure you remember to take your Kevlar seat cushion.

Nah, big sky, little bullet.  I'm in.

[RiverAux]

Sure, I can take some time off....

[NIN]

Mahe sure you remember to take your Kevlar seat cushion.

Nah, big sky, little bullet.  I'm in.

Yeah, I'm with Gunner C here.... Except we should be doing this with Skymasters...  Right?

[Al Sayre]

How about we pull a few OV-10's out of mothballs?

[Always Ready]

^That would be cool!

[Smithsonia]

Twin Commander with a twin ma-deuce out the side like a mini-AC-130. Pilot, Co-Pilot, Observer, Door Gunner, 14 Shrikes fanning out on 1000 mile sorties, free fire beyond the 250 mile military exclusionary zone. Pirates who forget to wave; "say hello to my little friend."

I'm punching up the screen play tonight -- Jean Claude Van Damm stars in "Tropic Heat" This time it's personal... watercraft!

[CadetProgramGuy]

Best plane for the mission is probably the P3 Orion. OK I don't know how to fly that one...

Ahhh Phooey...Flying is flying......takeoffs are easy in any aircraft.  Landing however.........

[SarDragon]

Best plane for the mission is probably the P3 Orion.

What's your reasoning there? Beyond the tremendous loiter time, I don't see any big advantages.

[Al Sayre]

Weapons load- The P-3 has an internal bomb bay under the front fuselage which can house conventional Mark 50 torpedoes or Mark 46 torpedoes and/or special (nuclear) weapons. Additional underwing stations, or pylons, can carry other armament configurations including the AGM-84 Harpoon, AGM-84E SLAM, AGM-84H/K SLAM-ER, the AGM-65 Maverick, 5 in (127 mm) Zuni rockets, and various other sea mines, missiles, and gravity bombs. 

Hey Mr. Pirate, say hello to my little friend...

[Smithsonia]

P3 Orion is a big plane. It is the primary land based "shipping control" aircraft of the US Navy. It has lots of big anti shipping devices. In this case, a P3 is overkill as an attack bomber. P3s can't torpedo a skiff. Whalers/skiffs/row boats/inflatables are too small, and your "boom-box" is too big. BUT, P3s are also configured with the right crew stations (radar, comm, command/control, etc)

I think in this case less is more. Get more Aero Commander Shrikes and just one or 2 Orions (to hold down the CC part of the mission and in doing so keep them up high for "good-god" communications) then let the Aero Commanders do the attacks. If I had a few hundred million dollars and 6 months I'd build me a squadron of pirate killers out of 2 P3 Orions and 14 Aero Commanders, 250-300 personnel, and of course 2 dogs, 8 hanger-ons, some locals for comedy relief, a parson, and my old drinking buddy Doc... Kind of "Mash" but fewer jokes.

All of this is just goof-ball hangar talk so say what you like.

[MIKE]

Why would you waste a torpedo on some pirates rust bucket?  What you need is an appropriately sized gun that fires cheap ammo and the pylon turn.

[Smithsonia]

Precisely! CAP Somali Anti-Pirate Campaign Starts June 1... be on board. After we clean them out then we head for Bernie Madoff. The only good pirate is the one lined up for my next attack run.

"the spirit of the warrior comes slower to old men... but remains." Eddie Rckenbacker

[Gunner C]

Why would you waste a torpedo on some pirates rust bucket?  What you need is an appropriately sized gun that fires cheap ammo and the pylon turn.

Why? Two words:  Bigger Splash!

I think an AC-130 would be the weapon of choice.  The sensor suite would be much better suited for interdicting small, point targets.  Plus, it would have unlimited loiter time - it can be air refueled.  The armaments choices are much better:  7.62 miniguns, 40mm Bofors, and the ever-popular 105mm.  Anyone for a CAP Spectre gunship? 

[Smithsonia]

AC-130s are too expensive and you can't send enough of them in the the state of Texas sized area to make a difference. I think America owns about only 50-60 of those fat boys anyway. Save them for big fights with big boys. The AC130 is designed to go up against hard and massive targets when air superiority is not in question. The crew is 9 to 11 members and missions, mostly at night.

SO, Airborne gunships (Aero Commanders in my imagination) at 2000 agl starting with anything from dual 50cals through 30mm reciprocated chain guns. For goodness sakes, the pirates are in inflatables and 200 miles at sea. Any trouble for them is bad trouble for them.

This whole thing reminds me of the stupid Biker maniac pictures from American International in the '60.
Three Harley Drivin' Hell's Angels swinging chains smash the windows of a sedan and rape the women from that car.

Really? REALLY? How about maneuvering the car viciously enough left and right to spread biker boys over a mile of desolate deserted highway. Heck the girls could kill the Bikers, load their motorcycles up to sell for parts, and be in Las Vegas to catch a show and dinner and they'd never get caught, even by the CSI team.

Aero Commander 500s with Ma Deuces at 2000 agl in the pylon turn. Build a military (and civil) exclusion zone with corridors (we do this all the time in places like North Korea, Panama Canal, Alaska Fisheries, Iraq's coastal waters, Russia's Kamchatka Peninsula, and Chinese continental waters. Mess up and you are intercepted. Really mess up and you are sunk. Simple. Enforce it with gunships, Navies, and a modified escort system.

Fisherman have to get to sea and back home -- so complaining that they don't understand complex navigation is ridiculous. Stack convoys - givem protection - turn it over to the armed and dangerous Civil Air Patrol -- we'll take it from here.

Hey, it's a fun argument but it is only just an argument... it ain't real. It does prove I've had too much time on my hands. However tomorrow I start an ICS 400 class and this is likely the last fun I'll have for 2 days.

[flyerthom]

This is a WW II style mission at sea level. If conjecture is the game I would suggest a J 3 cub or a super cub on floats with a Kevlar cabin liner. Quiet, stable and, as CAP proven, capable of carrying a 250 lb bomb perfect for puncturing a skiff.

To enhance the mission, I'd suggest coordinating with a Navy Sub equipped with a WW II style deck gun. Call the coordinates of the mother ships to the navy and let them send the scurvy dogs to Davy Jones locker YARRRR!

[SarDragon]

Subs don't got deck guns no more. 

[Smithsonia]

A couple of Stealthy subs on patrol in pirate waters, wouldn't hurt. Although, Subs don't have anything on board to shoot an inflatable... that said, surfacing near them and upsetting their boat... when they're 200 miles at sea... is quite enough. So pirates can be subject to splashing. In this case splashing them is a death sentence.

[Gunner C]

Makes me all warm and fuzzy inside . . . 

[Major Lord]

I think we should team up with the Coast Guard Aux. With our air assets and their ability to board ships, hang pirates, etc., we just need to ask the Congress for letters of Marque and Reprisal. We could then legally prey upon the shipments of our enemies, claim reasonable fees for recovery of pillaged cargos, and have salvage rights over the perfectly good boats and weapons ( which we would sell on E-bay....) we capture from the pirates. A perfect win-win solution and beats the heck out of pancake breakfasts for fundraising! Oh sure, some sissy boys with CAP will argue that we can't violate our benevolent charter, but that did not stop us from illegally waging war on the enemy in WWII, so why should it be a problem now?

[SarDragon]

The "benevolent" feature wasn't instituted until 1946.

Public Law 79-476 (Pub.L. 79-476) was passed by the U.S. Congress in 1946. The Civil Air Patrol, the auxiliary of the United States Air Force, was to be "solely of a benevolent character".

[SarDragon]

Speaking of rust buckets, a Russian Typhoon class boomer:



More here.

[Major Lord]

The "benevolent" feature wasn't instituted until 1946.

Public Law 79-476 (Pub.L. 79-476) was passed by the U.S. Congress in 1946. The Civil Air Patrol, the auxiliary of the United States Air Force, was to be "solely of a benevolent character".

I would view the dropping of weapons on enemies a benevolent act, wouldn't you? :angel: My point was that we had no more legal authority to wage war upon the enemy in WWII (as CAP) then we do as CAP, Inc. Which is to say, none at all. Congress can grant letters of Marque and Reprisal, and we could legally go out there and kick some pirate booty.

[SJFedor]

Speaking of rust buckets, a Russian Typhoon class boomer:



More here.

Caption: In soviet russia, submarine drives you!

[Smithsonia]

If Israel would buy a few of these old Russia boomers and then park them off the Iranian coast -- I'll bet that Iranian President Amadinejad would NOT be quite so threatening to the world.

That duty doesn't sound like fun to me... so I am not recommending that CAP get into running a Submarine Fleet for Israel. Claustrophobic, in the dark, waiting for the end of the world... has always been part of the silent service's downside. So, I'd rather be flying.

The term "benevolent society" doesn't exclude every possibility to armed engagement. Otherwise the Red Cross could never hire guards at their refugee food distribution sites.

(Russian Missile Subs - Boomers - Out of sight - but - Never out of mind.) 

[JohnKachenmeister]

If Israel would buy a few of these old Russia boomers and then park them off the Iranian coast -- I'll bet that Iranian President Amadinejad would NOT be quite so threatening to the world.

That duty doesn't sound like fun to me... so I am not recommending that CAP get into running a Submarine Fleet for Israel. Claustrophobic, in the dark, waiting for the end of the world... has always been part of the silent service's downside. So, I'd rather be flying.

The term "benevolent society" doesn't exclude every possibility to armed engagement. Otherwise the Red Cross could never hire guards at their refugee food distribution sites.

(Russian Missile Subs - Boomers - Out of sight - but - Never out of mind.)

This all sounds like great fun, but do you really think the "Girlie Men" at National would even THINK about any kind of action?  Remember... these are "Men" who think service in the American armed forces is "Inappropriate" for CAP members!

[tarheel gumby]

There are a few Aircraft Carriers in Mothballs That we could use. With our light Aircraft we wouldn't need to use tailhooks or the cats. And they would just scare the pants off of the pirates.

[wingnut55]

Girlie Men" at National ??

John when I was on active duty I met lots of Girlie Men

So what do you think of the Point Shaving in Toledo?

[Auxpilot]

How about painting Nancy Pelosi's face on the back of every ship that travels those waters. Kinda like a pirate scare crow

Another idea would be to blast a Hillary campain speech over the loud speaker every ten minutes or so, might kill the whales though........

[Spike]

And this thread is toasted!

[flyerthom]

And this thread is toasted!

Sunk like a pirate skiff ...

[Spike]

Now we can play pirate too!  Linky ->  http://www.kumagames.com/

JOKE...............
Did you hear about the new Somali Pirate Cocktail?

Three shots and three splashes of water.

[Major Lord]

Girlie man? I thought we had a manly girl?