Re-thinking the "One CAP" policy

[RiverAux]

A while ago there began a push to try to "nationalize" CAP more than it has been so that we're all just "one CAP".  This translated into getting rid of wing patches (almost) and was partially behind the "U.S. Civil Air Patrol" nametape and "moniker".  While these are the most obvious outward signs of this policy/initiative, there seem to have been more behind the scenes changes in which CAP Wings seem to be more willing to ask for and receive help from other Wings when it comes time to perform missions.  There seems to still be a way to go on that issue, but we're getting better. 

Now, while I still disagree with the wing patch/USCAP decisions, I think the issue they've tried to address is valid.  For example, in many of the articles about the Fossett search you see constant references to the Nevada Civil Air Patrol or California Civil Air Patrol.  While these are obviously media mistakes and I'm sure we didn't use that terminology in our press releases or press conferences, by our normal language I think it is not unexpected that those phrases are used. 

The only way around that constant confusion that I see is to try to limit the use of Wing names in our press releases, especially those involving missions.  If we just talk of the Civil Air Patrol being activated rather than the Nevada Wing of the Civil Air Patrol, it would reduce confusion in the media.  What do you think?

[SDF_Specialist]

RiverAux, I personally like the U.S. Civil Air Patrol tapes myself, but I'm with you on the Wing patches. Most AF units have unit patches to distinguish themselves from other units, and that is what I feel the purpose of the Wing patch was. Referring to ourselves as individual Wings should solely be used for Administrative purposes in my opinion. When there is a search such as the Fossett search, I don't care what Wing are involved. It's nice to know that CAP is involved. I agree that we should eliminate the use of Wing names in the press releases. I don't see a problem with identifying your unit name like "Capt. Average Joe from the Las Vegas Composite Squadron", or "Lt. Col. Jane Doe from the Sacramento Senior Squadron", would be a problem. We are a whole. We as members should also recognize this. I'm with you.

[JohnKachenmeister]

I like the fact that the wing patches went away from the blues.  I really don't care one way or the other about the patches on the BDU, except that they should be consistent with the Air Force and not the Army Air Corps.

I don't like the USCAP nonsense, since that gives the appearance (maybe intentionally?) that CAP is a stand-alone force independent of the Air Force.  After all, we never talk about the "U.S. Air Combat Command."

But I agree that the journalistic shorthand of "Nevada Civil Air Patrol" should be discouraged.  The "Nevada Wing of the CAP," or "CAP's Nevada Wing" is accurate and preferable.  Otherwise, it DOES give the impression that CAP is a state agency.

[MIKE]

One way to fix it is to get rid of states as wings.  It doesn't have to be Massachusetts Wing.  It could be [Some Number] [Some Distinctive Type of Designator for CAP] Wing.  I'd ditch geographic naming across the board for this reason.

[JohnKachenmeister]

One way to fix it is to get rid of states as wings.  It doesn't have to be Massachusetts Wing.  It could be [Some Number] [Some Distinctive Type of Designator for CAP] Wing.  I'd ditch geographic naming across the board for this reason.

That's a good thought, Mike.  The wings already have numbers.  It wouldn't be too much of a stretch to make Florida Wing, for example, the "8th CAP Wing."

[a2capt]

Number then as they were admitted to the union or recognized/declared/whatever (D.C. and PR) - there would be 52 of them. I too, think the U.S., US, etc is just more TP ego stretch, that we could still call off as an organization, I wouldn't be surprised if similar stuff changes when the Investigation is over with what really needs to be the obvious outcome. Our unit ordered a bunch of stuff from that company that stifles competition, and no tapes came that said 'U.S. CIVIL AIR PATROL', I'm thinking that when the first ones show up, everyones gonna need to get new name and organization tapes otherwise we're going to look weird, and changing just the organization will result in uneven fading. ... IE.. they all need changed, the cadets will nail you on stuff like that 

[SDF_Specialist]

One way to fix it is to get rid of states as wings.  It doesn't have to be Massachusetts Wing.  It could be [Some Number] [Some Distinctive Type of Designator for CAP] Wing.  I'd ditch geographic naming across the board for this reason.

That's a good thought, Mike.  The wings already have numbers.  It wouldn't be too much of a stretch to make Florida Wing, for example, the "8th CAP Wing."

The numbering system would definately be a good way to identify each individual state if it came down to that point. Or we could just use the charter number like the "96th Composite Squadron of CAP". It's just something minute that was overlooked, but could always be taken care of.

[floridacyclist]

Number then as they were admitted to the union or recognized/declared/whatever (D.C. and PR) - there would be 52 of them.

You don't even have to go that far...the numbering has already been done. Former cadets will remember when the first two digits of their unit charter number equated to their state - I was in 08142.

[MIKE]

MAWG is/was 19.  I think I saw something that said the numbers were based on all the states plus PR and DC listed alphabetically.

[RiverAux]

Switching to numbered Wings may help slightly, but as I am generally a bit of a traditionalist I'm not sure I would want to go that way. 

As to squadrons, we couldn't realistically go to all numbered squadrons without renumbering everything.  For example, there might be a charter number 96 squadron in multiple Wings so they all couldn't be the 96th Composite Squadron. 

I wouldn't want to go to numbered Wings or especially squadrons without doing away with the cadet/composite/senior stuff at the same time.  If the AF didn't already have a lock on Search and Rescue Squadron/Wing that is what we SHOULD be (yes, yes, I know that not every squadron does SAR, but it is as good a generalization as anything else). 

[JohnKachenmeister]

--  The 8th Civil Air Patrol Wing (Florida)

--  The 289th Cadet Squadron (Ohio)

--  The 19th Civil Air Patrol Group (Florida)

--  The 96th Composite Squadron (Anystate)

--  The 69th Operations Squadron (Anystate)

"Senior" squadrons gets switched to "Operations" squadron to avoid the natural confusion that might result from people assuming that "Senior" may mean superior in rank or position.  Or, worse, synonomous with "Historic."

[floridacyclist]

Of course, the flip side to that would be that other (non-operations) squadrons are assumed to not do operations (ie ES and other flying)

We'll just be honest and call Senior-only squadrons what they are: Krispy Kreme Corporate HQ Field Offices"

[JC004]

Of course, the flip side to that would be that squadrons are assumed to not do operations (ie ES and other flying)

We'll just be honest and call Senior-only squadrons what they are: Krispy Kreme Corporate HQ Field Offices"

rofl   

[LittleIronPilot]

--  The 8th Civil Air Patrol Wing (Florida)

--  The 289th Cadet Squadron (Ohio)

--  The 19th Civil Air Patrol Group (Florida)

--  The 96th Composite Squadron (Anystate)

--  The 69th Operations Squadron (Anystate)

"Senior" squadrons gets switched to "Operations" squadron to avoid the natural confusion that might result from people assuming that "Senior" may mean superior in rank or position.  Or, worse, synonomous with "Historic."

Wow...I LIKE that! I do not mind being known as a "senior" member, but as someone who is only 38 and still new to CAP, I am actually not "senior" in anything! LOL

[JohnKachenmeister]

Of course, the flip side to that would be that other (non-operations) squadrons are assumed to not do operations (ie ES and other flying)

We'll just be honest and call Senior-only squadrons what they are: Krispy Kreme Corporate HQ Field Offices"

OK.  --  The 126th Cholesterol Consumption Squadron (LDL) (Florida)

[JC004]

Of course, the flip side to that would be that other (non-operations) squadrons are assumed to not do operations (ie ES and other flying)

We'll just be honest and call Senior-only squadrons what they are: Krispy Kreme Corporate HQ Field Offices"

OK.  --  The 126th Cholesterol Consumption Squadron (LDL) (Florida)

Approved. 

[a2capt]

What is it now, 138th Belt Busters Squadron?

I've heard cadets refer to the Dark Side in passing, "the only thing that you start gaining on is belt sizes", over there.. ;-)

However on topic, too, the fact that they say "California Wing - Civil Air Patrol" and "286th Operations Squadron - Civil Air Patrol", still means there's separate units to one organization.

It's just in the naming..

If you think you're going to 'make it easier' for the media, you have another thing coming. 

[flyerthom]

Of course, the flip side to that would be that other (non-operations) squadrons are assumed to not do operations (ie ES and other flying)

We'll just be honest and call Senior-only squadrons what they are: Krispy Kreme Corporate HQ Field Offices"

Excuse me, I prefer Duncan myself. And they're finally coming to Vegas! If they didn't I'd have to move back to PA.

[RiverAux]

However on topic, too, the fact that they say "California Wing - Civil Air Patrol" and "286th Operations Squadron - Civil Air Patrol", still means there's separate units to one organization.

It's just in the naming..

If you think you're going to 'make it easier' for the media, you have another thing coming

Its not the separate units that are the issue, its the fact that using "Nevada Civil Air Patrol" makes it seem as if it is an entirely different organization from the "California Civil Air Patrol" in the way that the California and Nevada Highway Patrols are different organizations. 

[dbaran]

To make things even more confusing, we have CAP units in California that belong to Nevada Wing (aka "Nevada Civil Air Patrol") - such as the unit at Truckee, CA.