CAP as "Slave Labor" at Airshows?!!

[RADIOMAN015]

  Interestingly, I was talking with one CAP official that took a van full of cadets to help out at a recent Air National Guard sponsored airshow.  Apparently, the airshow sponsors & the Air National Guard, made no provision for at least providing cold water & refreshments to the cadets that were basically parking cars for two days --they appeared to be short of "paid" military personnel.   Finally CAP on Sunday just pulled there personnel from the duty because it was too hot & medically dangerous.  You really got to wonder at these airshow gigs why CAP has to be the "slave" labor.  The way I see it when we commit it should be for a number of support hours based upon the number of personnel & our cadets (e.g. total 10 hours per person) as well as seniors should not only have the opportunity to rest but also time to watch the aero demos & visit the exhibits.   Got to wonder how "eager" anyone is going to be to volunteer at ANY airshow after this "slave labor" experience!?

RADIOMAN015     

[Nomex Maximus]

Don't know what your experience was, but it does seem like CAP does not have any plan in place for feeding or providing for the troops once they get to a mission or exercise.  I have been on three missions so far and you are lucky if you get a sandwich or a piece of pizza that someone happened to bring to the field. If you drove in to the mission it's not so bad you just go and get smething on your own. But if you are part of an aircrew you have no options but what you happened to bring in your pockets. Seems like CAP ought to be able to spring for basic food for participants...

[♠SARKID♠]

Whenever we set up a mission, food is widely available.  We set up a meal time for all personnel to come and eat.  We grill burgers, brats, and hot dogs,  and have potato salads, chips, vegetables w/dip, soda and water.  Its a bit of a pretty penny, but it makes sure that everybody stays in good physical condition for the mission.  We also make sure that all GTs and air crews get a chance to eat after they get back from sorties.

[Skyray]

Don't know where you guys are, but in sunny Florida B.P. (before Pineda) one of the things that seniors kept constantly in mind was the comfort of the troops.  Water butts, food, and whatever we could scrounge from the local businesses with the charity/cadet whine.  I remember a couple of events where the volunteer workers had their own chow tent manned by food service personnel from a local hospital.  Those were the good old days.  I don't intend to imply that it has changed since Pineda, I just don't know because I am not participating

[ZigZag911]

The leadership always needs to be concerned with logistics: water, food, sanitation, sleeping quarters (if it's an overnight event), security, finance, communications, first aid arrangements, emergency planning and of course, safety.

In the case of an air show, the CAP commander ought to speak up and ask the sponsor for what his folks need....they are, as was observed, serving the activity for free!

[SDF_Specialist]

Radio, I feel your pain. I have been to numerous CAP sponsored events where refreshments were not a thought except on the minds of the hungry individuals. In my previous unit, there was one member who would always bring a van full of food, and a cooking source for the food. This guy is a funeral director, so he has the economy size vans. There should be planning as far as establishing a FMC established amount of funds for refreshments for cadets and officers alike. Unfortunately, the coordination consumes the planners, that the last thing they think of is food. This should be something that is always brought up in the planning stages of any event. Persistence doesn't hurt either.

[Ned]

I've probably worked nearly two dozen air shows where cadets were supporting the airshow by parking cars and/or working crowd control.  It's almost always a hot, shadeless environment.

It is the CAP leadership's responsiblity to take care of our troops, including rest, shade, food, etc.

That's kinda what the whole ORM thing is for.  To plan for and mitigate risks to the troops, and thus support the mission.

It sounds like the seniors really let the cadets down.

Normally, the cadets should have an opportunity to spend a lot of time looking at airplanes, watching the show. and just chilling as necessary.

With adequate planning, air shows are an ideal activity for cadets, and often provide vital fund-raising opportunities for the unit.

After all, anytime you can get cadets and airplanes together in the same place at the same time, it is almost always a Good Thing.

Ned Lee

[RiverAux]

If we're talking about a real mission I NEVER count on anyone to feed or water me for the first 24 hours -- thats why I lug around all that gear.  If I'm going to a mission base on a known multi-day deployement it is a little different story then.  I am still dismayed, but no longer surprised, to see ground teams show up expecting to eat at Mcdonalds and without any of their own food. 

As to airshows and events like that, yes the CAP leadership is responsible for making arrangments to feed the members or at least provide breaks so they can go and buy something. 

[SDF_Specialist]

I got to thinking a little more after my initial post in this thread. At the Cleveland Airshow last weekend, the Ohio Military Reserve was wearing their gun belts with canteens attached. Why isn't this ever an option for CAP? Not that I'm saying that there is a regulation against it, but this should be an option to those who want to participate.

[RiverAux]

In the last few years I've almost never seen cadets weren't wearing camelbacks at such events. 

[fyrfitrmedic]

 Back in the days when CAP units were allowed to utilize 6x6s as corporate vehicles, my home unit had a trailer pulled by one of our two trucks. The trailer was a mass-feeding kitchen that saw most of its use at SAREXs but was quite useful. Our unit commander had arrangements with vendors for short-notice perishable items and we kept an inventory of canned goods in our supply room.

[Eagle400]

When I was a cadet, I worked at least 5 different airshows. 

Food wasn't really an issue to be concerned with.  There was plenty of food to go around because there were lots of food tents.  Water, however, was.  Standard procedure was to have one golf cart crew act as a 'water buffalo' and drive to each station to make sure everyone was drinking water and refilling their canteens.   

I can imagine an airshow where food isin't a concern.  However, I can't imagine any activity, let alone an airshow, without a plan for procuring and distributing water.  Water is life.     

[Major Carrales]

"...to be of service to my community, state and Nation."

I would not call it slave labor, but, there needs to be plenty of water and food.  People trust their children to us to mold them into good citizens...not land them in a hospital or morgue.

On the occasions where have guarded or parked cars, we insured there was plenty to drink and, when the time came, to eat well.

[scmaul]

I have been to Two Air shows where cadets have been used for parking control. The organizers of the show provided us with tickets for lunch at the concession stands. We did have to provide our own water and any snacks for the rest of the day. I also made sure that each cadet had time off to see the show. It does make for a very long hot day.

[LtCol White]

In the many, many airshows I have worked with cadets either parking cars or as flightline security/smoking&FOD patrols, we always set up in the planning meeting with the base to feed and water the cadets. Each cadet rec'd tickets for food(usually hamburgers) and were advised which beverage stations would provide them with free water. All of our cadets also wore webgear with canteens (camel backs now)

[CadetProgramGuy]

Whenever the CAP leadership sets up flightline duties, we always mandate that water will be available (bottled preferred), a cool resting spot, and food (flight breakfast food is ok)

[JayT]

I got to thinking a little more after my initial post in this thread. At the Cleveland Airshow last weekend, the Ohio Military Reserve was wearing their gun belts with canteens attached. Why isn't this ever an option for CAP? Not that I'm saying that there is a regulation against it, but this should be an option to those who want to participate.

Wait, can you explain that.

[CadetProgramGuy]

I got to thinking a little more after my initial post in this thread. At the Cleveland Airshow last weekend, the Ohio Military Reserve was wearing their gun belts with canteens attached. Why isn't this ever an option for CAP? Not that I'm saying that there is a regulation against it, but this should be an option to those who want to participate.

Why should our cadets ever be without their canteens in the field?  Even at airshows they are working?

[ZigZag911]

Seniors in the field should have canteens also.

Which does not mitigate the responsibility of the CAP command to ensure the folks are looked after.

[RogueLeader]

An OT post but related because mentioned earlier.

Food is not a reimbursable item on a mission.  Now a unit can pay for it out of their funds, or ask to pitch in.  It all depends on how much the unit is willing to pay.  I'm hoping that they'd at least provide water.  Food is good, but most would have to pay for their food anyways, so some groups such as those running the Air show- not CAP Groups- figure that you are grown up enough to be able to figure some things out.  My view is to expect the worst case, but hope for the best.

[jimmydeanno]

Just sounds like some poor planning on the CAP leaderships part.

All the airshows I've worked we planned prior with the folks we were helping to find out what things would be available/provided and planned accordingly.

The last airshow, not only did our members get paid 10/hour/volunteer but they provided 3 meals and had the little golf carts driving around with water.  Then, the CAP folks scheduled people efficiently enough so the cadets and seniors working had breaks and such so they could enjoy the show as well.

You can't expect to just show up to these things and assume that someone else has taken care of everything for you if you put in no effort before hand other than driving the van there.

[tribalelder]

Years ago (1989 or '90) at 1030AM, at a midwest airport airshow, it became clear that the airshow's promised feeding and  hydration arrangements would be inadequate.  At 1045, one member was retrieving a gas grill from home, another making a dash trip to a wholesale club.  By the first lunch rotation, we were covered.

From a resource management standpoint, supporting guest management at airshows is like a tornado with a known date.

[Chaplaindon]

Having worked a number of airshows in the past, and as a former unit commander, I have two (2) specific issues with the use of CAP members, particularly cadets at airshows:

1.  In my experience cadets and senior members are all-too-often required to wear a service dress uniform (e.g. short-sleeve USAF shirt and trousers and flight/service cap) while performing their duties at airshows.

I have witnessed members doing hard manual labor in a non-work uniform. Service dress is ill-suited and inappropriate for said tasking. In addition the military personnel working the air show wear BDU/ABU (etc.) with CamelBak's and so forth.

If our personnel are to be doing physical work (which includes ropeline duties in 90 degree+ heat) they should be allowed to dress appropriately.

2.  I know that some of that manual labor has included loading and unloading ice and so forth for FOR-PROFIT vendors. CAP should not be providing literally free slave-labor to for-profit vendors. That's especially true for cadets who really can't consent, or who may feel that they cannot refuse, said duties.

[jimmydeanno]

Boy...all these stories are making me scared.  I may have to stop attending other squadrons/wings activities...

I always hear these type of horror stories, but have never actually seen things like this happen.  Guess I'm just lucky.

[Nomex Maximus]

This is all well and good, but what about real ES missions and training exercises? The aircrew does not have the luxury of carrying extra baggage - the back of the Cessna is already full of survival gear. There is almost no room inside for anything more than the three crew members. Each carrying along a flight bag is usually not practical. Also, there is no point to scheduled meals - the aircraft come and go at odd intervals and may be up for four hours atr a time.

Just seems like simple common sense and courtesy that the leadership would make sure that we have a van or a trailer that can be brought along to any mission that is stocked with basics like non-perishable food and water. A supply of MREs would be nice. At the very least make sure that someone can go to the local stores and get some food for the people when they land or return to base. Perhaps we could have another ES specialty rating - Mission Cook? I am serious...

[davedove]

Task F-4102 DETERMINE THE NEED TO SETUP AND OPERATE AN INCIDENT COMMISSARY under the Finance/Admin Section Chief SQTR relates to these issues.  Perhaps more emphasis needs to be put on this.

[JohnKachenmeister]

Years ago (1989 or '90) at 1030AM, at a midwest airport airshow, it became clear that the airshow's promised feeding and  hydration arrangements would be inadequate.  At 1045, one member was retrieving a gas grill from home, another making a dash trip to a wholesale club.  By the first lunch rotation, we were covered.

From a resource management standpoint, supporting guest management at airshows is like a tornado with a known date.

"Supporting airshows is like a tornado with a known date?"

I am SO gonna steal that!

Seriously, you are right.  The reason we support airshows is the training benefit they provide.  Aerospace training by using the LCWA instructional method; and the Emergency Services training in commo, traffic, crowd and circulation control, coordination with other local emergency services providers.  You plan for an airshow the same way you plan for any other mission.  And if you leave your troopers out there without food or water, then it is YOUR fault.  That should have been coordinated.

[Lancer]

Back to the original topic...

I think Ned and jimmydeanno answered the question pretty succinctly.

Poor CAP leadership.

Regardless of the event, proper prior planning by the project officer(s) should be outlined well in advance of the outing.

If something as simple as making sure your people are fed and watered during the activity does not happen, then they have failed at their job. Specifics about who, where, when and how this is going to happen HAVE to be planned ahead of time.

You can't just expect to show up and have someone think about feeding you.

Figuring out the details and lack of planning for mission provisions is fodder for a different discussion thread.

[LeoBurke]

Why would (insert your rank/name here) let it happen?

Let me ask a couple questions:

  1.  Who is responsible for the safety of our people?
  2.  If ANYONE saw a problem, why didn't they raise the issue?
  3.  Who communicated the problem up the chain of command, during or after the incident?

My thoughts...

  1.  ALL of us are responsible. 
  2.  Anyone from a cadet basic on up could say "Sir, its hot.  We're tired and thirsty.  What can we do?"  I can not imagine that at ANY military airshow, if a CAP officer (cadet or senior) approached an Officer or NCO from the host unit and said "CAP has a heat/hydration issue.  We're can we get shade and water?"  That there would not be an INSTANTANEOUS response. 

As a member you always have two choices: 
  a. You can sit there and complain to each other 
  b.  You can get up and do something about it.

  3.  See comment above.  If it wasn't resolved immediately, it should have been escalated.  Over the head of the officer in charge if necessary.  Trust me it will get attention.  There is an entire section of regs dealing with hydration and heat in the CAP and in the USAF regulations.

Any member who participated in this incident and didn't act is as guilty as the officer in charge?  Why?  You had a choice to act correctly.



Leo Burke, Lt Col, CAP
Chief of Safety
Michigan Wing

[LeoBurke]

I've probably worked nearly two dozen air shows where cadets were supporting the airshow by parking cars and/or working crowd control.  It's almost always a hot, shadeless environment.

*snip*

Ned Lee

I thought all the planes were biplanes when you were a cadet.  Shouldn't there have been twice as much shade, sir?

:angel:

[DHollywood]

In our Wing, any "air show" support requires approval of the Group Commander AND the Wing CC.

Before they will grant approval there must be a complete OPSPLAN outlining the hazards, (food, shelter, water, etc included), and how they will be handled.

Our general tendency is we do not support "air shows" unless its on a military facility in which case there is a MSA in addition to the OPSPLAN.

[O-Rex]

A term comes to mind: 'self-sustainment'

Bring your own: if the supported organization springs for lunch, then save the happy-meals for another day. . . .

[Nomex Maximus]

The vending machines at the airport do not count as adequate planning.

[Eclipse]

I got to thinking a little more after my initial post in this thread. At the Cleveland Airshow last weekend, the Ohio Military Reserve was wearing their gun belts with canteens attached. Why isn't this ever an option for CAP? Not that I'm saying that there is a regulation against it, but this should be an option to those who want to participate.

Of course its an option - that or a hydropack, though one should never discount the effectiveness of a 50-cent bottle of water in the BDU pocket.

[RADIOMAN015]

 :-[Well, our Deputy Commander for Cadets along with the other units DID take action on that Sunday to remove the cadets from parking cars when the weather got too hot & their wasn't any support!!! (I'm sure the base security people had water, seems logical as soon as they saw a problem they would react).  The only reason I knew there was a problem (I was sitting at home in a/c over 80 miles away!!!)  because some other radio hobbyists ran an internet feed via teamspeak that used a radio scanner/antenna close to the base/action to monitor both the ground support & aero radio freqs.  I heard security calling into their dispatch basically telling them that CAP was removing their people from the parking detail.  So I asked the question at the next squadron meeting -- How did it go?... I also know that from radio monitoring the entire activity that the military (Air National Guard & other "paid" personnel) seem to be very confused at times (including overreacting at security checkpoints & than completely closing down the checkpoint and just letting people in) and IMHO not running a very good coordinated effort.  We discussed this at the squadron level, and felt that it shouldn't be 16-18 hours of work for cadets (or seniors) for that matter each day.  My feeling is that 4 hours at tops doing work and than let them enjoy the show PERIOD.  I might also add that CAP was looking for close to 100 people and only got around 55 to 60.  SO at that point they should have decided what they could reasonably support and TOLD the air show sponsors.  Again we are VOLUNTEERS, not slaves.  I think the right decision was made when it became apparent that it was a safety problem, BUT when THAT base has another open house don't you think word is going to get around and it's going to be very difficult to get volunteers.   

RADIOMAN015     

Why would (insert your rank/name here) let it happen?

Let me ask a couple questions:

  1.  Who is responsible for the safety of our people?
  2.  If ANYONE saw a problem, why didn't they raise the issue?
  3.  Who communicated the problem up the chain of command, during or after the incident?

My thoughts...

  1.  ALL of us are responsible. 
  2.  Anyone from a cadet basic on up could say "Sir, its hot.  We're tired and thirsty.  What can we do?"  I can not imagine that at ANY military airshow, if a CAP officer (cadet or senior) approached an Officer or NCO from the host unit and said "CAP has a heat/hydration issue.  We're can we get shade and water?"  That there would not be an INSTANTANEOUS response. 

[RiverAux]

I would question the CAP folks who promised them 100 people in the first place if they didn't actually have that many on hand.  Come up a few people short isn't ideal, but can be expected.  But 45-50?

4 hours is probably a good max for that sort of work for cadets. 

[JAFO78]

Gentleman this is a very good topic, and it should serve as a lesson to us all. Always plan for the unexpected. We all should be taking notes on what went wrong and what should be done so this does not happen again.

I feel everyone involved should have a  back up plan. If they (air show) say they will give us this or that then they drop the ball, we as CAP should be able to cover and protect our people.

[Stonewall]

This may sound pompous, snotty, or non-team player like, but I have never "worked" an air show.  Nor would I have ever volunteered to "work" an air show unless we benefited financially or perhaps got to fly in a plane or something.  I've been at air shows where CAP is parking cars or directing traffic, but I flat out refuse to do it, because I know that people will use and abuse free labor.  What does a cadet, or senior for that matter, benefit from parking cars in the hot sun?  Personally, and this is no offense to teenagers, but I really don't want 2 or 3 cadets standing in the middle of thousands of cars trying to find parking for them.  Unless there is a senior member working with ever cadet, I say it's a no-go.

In my mind, we (CAP) is solely a part of the air show, static display side.  We are there to educate and inform folks about CAP and its missions. 

I've been called and practically ordered by Wing HQ to get my squadron out to the "Scott's Games" (Scott's as in Scotland) because CAP volunteered to handle parking, with zero benefit to CAP.  Only because it was a personal favor on behalf of the wing commander at the time.  I even caught heat for refusing to do it. 

On another note, for years my squadron handled trash pick-up at Quantico MCB for the annual Washington Area Girls Soccer (WAGS) championship matches that lasted for 3 days, with more than 10 fields all over the base.  The squadron got between $1000 and $2000.  We wore squadron t-shirts and shorts, provided lunch or planned on an organized lunch locally and even played our own sports during breaks.

Back to air shows.  I could see, and I'd have to be convinced, CAP (specifically cadets) being responsible for parking cars at a small local airshow at a local airport with limited crowds; maybe because the airport allows CAP to use a building or park a plane for free.  Like I said, CAP better be benefiting in some major way for me to allow my squadron to sweat our butts off rather than enjoy an air show.  YMMV.

[Hawk200]

This may sound pompous, snotty, or non-team player like, but I have never "worked" an air show.  Nor would I have ever volunteered to "work" an air show unless we benefited financially or perhaps got to fly in a plane or something.  I've been at air shows where CAP is parking cars or directing traffic, but I flat out refuse to do it, because I know that people will use and abuse free labor.  What does a cadet, or senior for that matter, benefit from parking cars in the hot sun?  Personally, and this is no offense to teenagers, but I really don't want 2 or 3 cadets standing in the middle of thousands of cars trying to find parking for them.  Unless there is a senior member working with ever cadet, I say it's a no-go.

In my mind, we (CAP) is solely a part of the air show, static display side.  We are there to educate and inform folks about CAP and its missions. 

I've been called and practically ordered by Wing HQ to get my squadron out to the "Scott's Games" (Scott's as in Scotland) because CAP volunteered to handle parking, with zero benefit to CAP.  Only because it was a personal favor on behalf of the wing commander at the time.  I even caught heat for refusing to do it. 

On another note, for years my squadron handled trash pick-up at Quantico MCB for the annual Washington Area Girls Soccer (WAGS) championship matches that lasted for 3 days, with more than 10 fields all over the base.  The squadron got between $1000 and $2000.  We wore squadron t-shirts and shorts, provided lunch or planned on an organized lunch locally and even played our own sports during breaks.

Back to air shows.  I could see, and I'd have to be convinced, CAP (specifically cadets) being responsible for parking cars at a small local airshow at a local airport with limited crowds; maybe because the airport allows CAP to use a building or park a plane for free.  Like I said, CAP better be benefiting in some major way for me to allow my squadron to sweat our butts off rather than enjoy an air show.  YMMV.

Well, maybe it is being a "non-team player", but you've got company now. I never really considered it this way, but I will in the future. It's one thing to go find an ELT, that's what we do. It's another thing entirely to waste your day with no payoff.

[Stonewall]

Well, maybe it is being a "non-team player", but you've got company now. I never really considered it this way, but I will in the future. It's one thing to go find an ELT, that's what we do. It's another thing entirely to waste your day with no payoff.

Ref the ELT thing, yeah, that's what we do.  For a lot of us, it's more of a hobby than work.  I don't know anyone that enjoys or dreams of parking cars.

[a2capt]

In Sunny Southern California, our various units that support the airshows during Airshow Season, which seems to run almost along with Hurricane Season .... so the Tornado with a known Date comment is right on target it seems.. 

Anyhow, parking cars seems to be the most undesired event, and the answer is "We are the civil *AIR* patrol, not the parking lot patrol.  Our cadets and senior members tend to get flightline duty, walking the lines, standing the positions at the taxi way entries, staffed in BDUs unless they're doing recruiting, then it's service dress.

No one does any labor for for-profit vendors, table moving, trash picking up, etc. Rather we deal with aircraft, it's an aerospace event, how cool is it to go back to school on a Monday and brag that you had a B-17 taxi right  past you, and in some cases the wing tips over your head? While your friends just played ball or slept..

As for food and water, never a problem. It seems though at times they have rerouted the Colorado River directly to the airshow site, water is never an issue. the vehicle rolls the show and provides CAP, pilots, other staffers with all the water they want. CAP is usually included in the volunteer food service where lunch is provided, sometimes their asked as part of the signup process, to bring $5 bucks, sometimes it's free. 2 hour rotations, everyone gets to see the airshow from their post, and gets a time block to just attend the show as well.

the last time I can remember doing parking was at the first launch to SpaceShipOne, when we were expecting a 3AM curtain call and instead got out there at 1AM because CHP had unblocked the road too early. Some of us walked the line to keep people off the runway, others got out there and routed cars, but with the significance of this event, about about 30 minutes 'till showtime, we radioed all the CAP personnel to come to the flightline. It was an Aerospace History Event in the making and no way was anyone in CAP going to get stuck hearing it from half a mile away instead of seeing it depart after taxiing past the crowd.

Airshows in Southern California tend to be great fun for cadets.

[Eclipse]

Back to air shows.  I could see, and I'd have to be convinced, CAP (specifically cadets) being responsible for parking cars at a small local airshow at a local airport with limited crowds; maybe because the airport allows CAP to use a building or park a plane for free.  Like I said, CAP better be benefiting in some major way for me to allow my squadron to sweat our butts off rather than enjoy an air show.  YMMV.

I think providing a building, parking area, and heated hanger space to the tune of thousands of dollars a year is benefit enough - many smaller airports provide this exact service to CAP, and in return all they ask is a little help once a year.  I prefer our people work the flightline, crowd safety and recruiting, but if cars need to be parked and we're it, so be it.

In some cases a show supports an airport without a unit but where emergency operations are run, or the visible benefit to the GA community is enough to warrant our assistance because of the ancillary intangibles we receive later.

Where I have heartburn is with CAP literally working for a private enterprise and being paid for the work, such as selling programs, food, or tickets.  I think this runs contrary to the volunteer spirit of the organization.

We should be in the "business" of "Quid Pro Quo" for agencies and organizations that provide a mutally beneficial relationship, tangible or otherwise.

[link]

:-[Well, our Deputy Commander for Cadets along with the other units DID take action on that Sunday to remove the cadets from parking cars when the weather got too hot & their wasn't any support!!! (I'm sure the base security people had water, seems logical as soon as they saw a problem they would react).  The only reason I knew there was a problem (I was sitting at home in a/c over 80 miles away!!!)  because some other radio hobbyists ran an internet feed via teamspeak that used a radio scanner/antenna close to the base/action to monitor both the ground support & aero radio freqs.  I heard security calling into their dispatch basically telling them that CAP was removing their people from the parking detail.  So I asked the question at the next squadron meeting -- How did it go?... I also know that from radio monitoring the entire activity that the military (Air National Guard & other "paid" personnel) seem to be very confused at times (including overreacting at security checkpoints & than completely closing down the checkpoint and just letting people in) and IMHO not running a very good coordinated effort.  We discussed this at the squadron level, and felt that it shouldn't be 16-18 hours of work for cadets (or seniors) for that matter each day.  My feeling is that 4 hours at tops doing work and than let them enjoy the show PERIOD.  I might also add that CAP was looking for close to 100 people and only got around 55 to 60.  SO at that point they should have decided what they could reasonably support and TOLD the air show sponsors.  Again we are VOLUNTEERS, not slaves.  I think the right decision was made when it became apparent that it was a safety problem, BUT when THAT base has another open house don't you think word is going to get around and it's going to be very difficult to get volunteers.   

RADIOMAN015     

Why would (insert your rank/name here) let it happen?

Let me ask a couple questions:

  1.  Who is responsible for the safety of our people?
  2.  If ANYONE saw a problem, why didn't they raise the issue?
  3.  Who communicated the problem up the chain of command, during or after the incident?

My thoughts...

  1.  ALL of us are responsible. 
  2.  Anyone from a cadet basic on up could say "Sir, its hot.  We're tired and thirsty.  What can we do?"  I can not imagine that at ANY military airshow, if a CAP officer (cadet or senior) approached an Officer or NCO from the host unit and said "CAP has a heat/hydration issue.  We're can we get shade and water?"  That there would not be an INSTANTANEOUS response.

Radioman, if this took place in your Wing why weren't you there?  You complain that there weren't enough people to work the event but yet you chose to stay at home?    Sounds kind of hypocritical to me. 

Tags - MIKE

[Lancer]

Where I have heartburn is with CAP literally working for a private enterprise and being paid for the work, such as selling programs, food, or tickets.  I think this runs contrary to the volunteer spirit of the organization.

So exactly how is it you intend for units to do fundraising? The volunteer spirit you're so keen on expressing is shown in it's members giving up thier time for thier unit.

If your unit is given hanger/meeting space and nothing in return is expected except for some minor volunteer effort, that's fine, AS LONG AS IT'S MANAGED PROPERLY.

Regardless of whether or not we're earning money for our 'volunteered' time or it's in return for hanger/meeting space, making sure everyone involved is properly taken care of and has a chance to have a good time should be the primary concern of the events project officer. Period.

[JayT]

Out here, sometimes crowd control/parking cars might be the big events of the month/year.

I love love love love love love watching cadets park cars wearing full twenty hour gears, with a boonie and aviator glasses on.

A lot of people in CAP have no sense of perception.