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2-Month Suspension

Started by West MI-CAP-Ret, March 13, 2012, 07:34:44 PM

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RADIOMAN015

Frankly I can't find anything in any CAP regulation that states that the squadron leadership or anyone else in a leadership position can issue a letter of reprimand to any other adult volunteer. ??? :-\   Also what is the retention period for the documentation  ???, even the USAF destroys certain personal unfavorable information after X years.

As far as the suspension goes, none of us have enough information to really form an opinion, as to the total dynamics of what is going on.    I don't think overall in CAP there's a large number of suspensions of adult volunteers (be interesting to see those statistics broken down by wings & regions) BUT formal suspension is VERY SERIOUS matter and shouldn't be taken lightly by the OP.  Surely a visit to the next level of adult leadership might be of benefit (and hopefully (likely)) the new adult leadership in the squadron had (already) spoken to the group leader before initiating the action).

As far as others mentioning about being a rec club etc, this is a Civilian organization (we are not in the military), composed of civilian uncompensated volunteers, many if not most want to contribute to the organization's success.  Just like in the workplace you have people with a variety of skills, aptitudes, limitations, and external personal matters, that you have to deal with.  No one is the perfect volunteer, everyone makes mistakes.  IF you are too harsh, volunteers will look to move elsewhere; IF you are too easy, I also think that volunteers will look to move elsewhere, cause they will tire of the other adults sitting around doing little or nothing.  Pity the poor soul that takes on the job of being the commander/adult leader, IF they aren't careful they could become an army of one, or a leader of self >:D
RM       

 

abdsp51

Quote from: RADIOMAN015 on March 18, 2012, 01:34:13 AM
Frankly I can't find anything in any CAP regulation that states that the squadron leadership or anyone else in a leadership position can issue a letter of reprimand to any other adult volunteer. ??? :-\   Also what is the retention period for the documentation  ???, even the USAF destroys certain personal unfavorable information after X years.

As far as the suspension goes, none of us have enough information to really form an opinion, as to the total dynamics of what is going on.    I don't think overall in CAP there's a large number of suspensions of adult volunteers (be interesting to see those statistics broken down by wings & regions) BUT formal suspension is VERY SERIOUS matter and shouldn't be taken lightly by the OP.  Surely a visit to the next level of adult leadership might be of benefit (and hopefully (likely)) the new adult leadership in the squadron had (already) spoken to the group leader before initiating the action).

As far as others mentioning about being a rec club etc, this is a Civilian organization (we are not in the military), composed of civilian uncompensated volunteers, many if not most want to contribute to the organization's success.  Just like in the workplace you have people with a variety of skills, aptitudes, limitations, and external personal matters, that you have to deal with.  No one is the perfect volunteer, everyone makes mistakes.  IF you are too harsh, volunteers will look to move elsewhere; IF you are too easy, I also think that volunteers will look to move elsewhere, cause they will tire of the other adults sitting around doing little or nothing.  Pity the poor soul that takes on the job of being the commander/adult leader, IF they aren't careful they could become an army of one, or a leader of self >:D
RM       



I think people realize that this is a civil organization. Be that it is a civil organization its paramilitary in terms of the use of the uniform, grade structure, customs and courtesies, and it has AF oversight.  As with any civil volunteer organization there needs to be some sort of regulation (term used loosely to denote any sort of charter, bylaws, etc) to direct member conduct.  Most volunteer have some sort of chain of command even if it a loose one.   

The CyBorg is destroyed

^^Yes, we do realise that, but RM doesn't believe that we realise it enough and has made it his task to remind us that we are the CIVIL Air Patrol and should not have any sort of quasi-military trappings.

The CGAUX has a chain of leadership and management, in which the Coast Guard is much more closely involved than the AF is with us...including an active duty USCG four-piston-ring Captain as Chief Director Auxiliary, in addition to the various other commissioned officers, warrant officers and NCO's who oversee the CGAUX's day-to-day work.

The USAC has a chain of command (I'm sure Colonel Land can elaborate).

I'm not sure about the NSCC, but they use Navy ranks, so it's quite likely that they use that as a basis for their system of leadership, along with oversight from various USN, USCG and USMC personages with stripes, brass and egg on their caps.

Exiled from GLR-MI-011

RADIOMAN015

Quote from: CyBorg on March 18, 2012, 02:31:29 AM
^^Yes, we do realise that, but RM doesn't believe that we realise it enough and has made it his task to remind us that we are the CIVIL Air Patrol and should not have any sort of quasi-military trappings.

In most instance adults attending unit meetings and other function are under the umbrella of Civil Air Patrol Incorporated charter, which is a civilian non profit corporation.    The AF is very clear in it's guidance that CAP members are civilians.  When one talks about "quasi military trappings", it is NOT what the individual adult leader desires (e.g. letter of reprimand) BUT what the corporation as part of it's policies authorizes.  I can't find anything in any regulations that authorizes anyone to give anyone a letter of reprimand.     

Now personally, I think there should be a policy clearly spelled out the process that must be adhered to when a member is not meeting "perceived" standards with appropriate review on ANY adverse actions BEFORE the action is taken against the member.   Likely this could be added into the membership regulation.

The question of  adverse information documentation access and retention also comes into question.   Example, adult leader speaks with adult member about a problem brought to his/her attention about the member within CAP's regulatory reach and an agreement/acknowledge/correction is agreed to.   The leader makes a memo for record about this discussion.  Is this an official record of CAP corporation and what is the retention period ???  Should the member be able to get a copy of this ???  Should the member be required to sign and acknowledge the problem discussion ???   At what point does informal (non documented) become formal documented counselling ???

Now I've seen an "informal" 60 day suspension to a member & also that same member met a membership board that placed specific conditions on retaining membership.  In that case it was well warranted, since I (as well as others) personally warned the member that his/her certain actions could become very detrimental to the organization.   

So again I'm not against some sort of "counselling" and acknowledgement/documentation by the member to resolve issues  -- one should know where they stand.   However, again we are NOT in the military and letters of admonishment/reprimand do not seem to be what a "Civilian" organization of uncompensated "civilian" volunteers needs to be doing. :-\

The USAF regulatory polices on adverse actions can be found at:
http://www.e-publishing.af.mil/shared/media/epubs/afi36-704.pdf
http://www.e-publishing.af.mil/shared/media/epubs/AFI36-703.pdf
http://www.e-publishing.af.mil/shared/media/epubs/AFI36-2907.pdf

Again there needs to be some protection also for the member -- When you don't interject that protection early enough the member goes to congress or directly to the USAF with their complaint, and this isn't in CAP as an organization interest, but may be well warranted. :( :-\ :angel:
RM   

       

FW

Quote from: RADIOMAN015 on March 18, 2012, 02:54:38 PM
Quote from: CyBorg on March 18, 2012, 02:31:29 AM
^^Yes, we do realise that, but RM doesn't believe that we realise it enough and has made it his task to remind us that we are the CIVIL Air Patrol and should not have any sort of quasi-military trappings.


Now personally, I think there should be a policy clearly spelled out the process that must be adhered to when a member is not meeting "perceived" standards with appropriate review on ANY adverse actions BEFORE the action is taken against the member.   Likely this could be added into the membership regulation.

The question of  adverse information documentation access and retention also comes into question.   Example, adult leader speaks with adult member about a problem brought to his/her attention about the member within CAP's regulatory reach and an agreement/acknowledge/correction is agreed to.   The leader makes a memo for record about this discussion.  Is this an official record of CAP corporation and what is the retention period ???  Should the member be able to get a copy of this ???  Should the member be required to sign and acknowledge the problem discussion ???   At what point does informal (non documented) become formal documented counselling ???

Now I've seen an "informal" 60 day suspension to a member & also that same member met a membership board that placed specific conditions on retaining membership.  In that case it was well warranted, since I (as well as others) personally warned the member that his/her certain actions could become very detrimental to the organization.   

So again I'm not against some sort of "counselling" and acknowledgement/documentation by the member to resolve issues  -- one should know where they stand.   However, again we are NOT in the military and letters of admonishment/reprimand do not seem to be what a "Civilian" organization of uncompensated "civilian" volunteers needs to be doing. :-\

Again there needs to be some protection also for the member -- When you don't interject that protection early enough the member goes to congress or directly to the USAF with their complaint, and this isn't in CAP as an organization interest, but may be well warranted. :( :-\ :angel:
RM   
     

For the last 5 years, the National Board has tried to develop a member "adverse action" manual/regulation specifying the path which needs to be taken.  Unfortunately, it never got out of committee.  It seems the leadership of CAP really doesn't want to be hemmed in.  It's percieved at the higher levels to be restricting.  So, we are left with regulations on membership termination and demotions/promotions.  There is also CAPR 35-8 which, somewhat, defines membership "adverse actions". 

Bottom line; in CAP, there is quite a wide latitude given to commanders for their actions.  And, there is no real motivation to change this.