All this is true, but I think we're missing the point of the OP's question. He asked specifically about rank and the perception it may have on others.

When a service member walks through the door, unless you know him (or her), all you have is the uniform (and his grade insignia, qualification badges, awards, etc.) to get a glimpse of what this individual has done. It's kind of like the cover of a book. You don't really know if the content is good until you read it, but the cover provides a glimpse of what the book is about. Of course, some books are really good even if their cover don't stand out. But you wouldn't know that unless you or someone else has read it.

Ah, I see your point.  In that case, my dad (who enlisted in '42, then went Annapolis) gave me some great advice on who to respect and stay on the good side of (i.e. who really is a big deal in personal terms):


1. The paymaster, who can leave you broke.

2. The logistics guys and cooks, who can leave you naked and hungry (or food poisoned)!

3. The yeoman/admin guys, who can cut your orders to some cold, isolated, God forsaken place where you freeze to death.


V/R
Spam

(I'm sure some of you've heard the story of the many guys who were told by their detailers about all the lovely blondes to meet on a rotation to Keflavik, Iceland, "There's One Behind Every Tree" - only to step off the transport and see zero trees on Iceland... got to respect those detailers and admin guys)!

Quote from: Eclipse on April 06, 2016, 09:12:29 PM
When you get one of these...

I've met four MoH recipients over the years.  I'm pretty sure that they would all disagree with you.  In fact, I heard one of them flat out state that he hated that people thinks he was somehow important or better than anyone else in the service simply because of his award.  "The only people who get the MoH who should be seen as heroes are the ones who received it posthumously".  That would be the late Senator from Hawaii, Daniel Inouye.

As far as rank goes, I've found that general officers are often the least difficult officers to deal with.  It's the people who are still in a position where they feel the need to "eliminate the competition" who are pains and are fixated on rank. I was stationed at Andrews AFB for a while and dealt with a lot of brass as a result.  The thing I learned was that rank only matters if you're in trouble or if you're insecure about yourself.  That's why a lot of senior officers place far less importance on rank than on what you know, how well you can apply it and whether you can be relied upon. 

Speaking of dealing with brass....I have to mention something funny that happened: I was driving back to my dorm and saw this guy in a flight suit humping a pack along the side of the street in the pouring rain.  I pulled up and offered him a ride which he accepted. He introduced himself by his first name and said that he had come in one of the cargo planes .  He decided to walk to the visiting officers quarters but had been caught by the sudden storm while he was walking.  It seemed like he was having a bad day so as he got out, I popped the trunk and passed him a beer (I had been coming back from the store).  He said thank you and went on his way.

I didn't find out who he was until the next day.  He was the commander of Air Mobility Command and he was pulling a surprise inspection on one of the units that had been reportedly not acting completely above board hence why he had basically tried to come in as low profile as he could.  I found this out when I was called into my squadron commander's office to be given the letter of commendation he had left me for "looking out for a fellow airman".   My commander goes "Care to explain the P.S.?" which was on a sticky note attached to the letter and read "Thank you for the beer".  My response was to burst out laughing and go "Ma'am, I did give him a beer but with all due respect but if you have a problem with that, I suggest that you take it up with the General since it seems he doesn't have a problem with it". 

Quote from: Spam on April 21, 2016, 03:23:26 PM
Ah, I see your point.  In that case, my dad (who enlisted in '42, then went Annapolis) gave me some great advice on who to respect and stay on the good side of (i.e. who really is a big deal in personal terms):


1. The paymaster, who can leave you broke.

2. The logistics guys and cooks, who can leave you naked and hungry (or food poisoned)!

3. The yeoman/admin guys, who can cut your orders to some cold, isolated, God forsaken place where you freeze to death.


V/R
Spam

(I'm sure some of you've heard the story of the many guys who were told by their detailers about all the lovely blondes to meet on a rotation to Keflavik, Iceland, "There's One Behind Every Tree" - only to step off the transport and see zero trees on Iceland... got to respect those detailers and admin guys)!

Let us not forget the corpsmen and dental techs. 

Quote from: Spam on April 21, 2016, 03:23:26 PM
Ah, I see your point.  In that case, my dad (who enlisted in '42, then went Annapolis) gave me some great advice on who to respect and stay on the good side of (i.e. who really is a big deal in personal terms):


1. The paymaster, who can leave you broke.

2. The logistics guys and cooks, who can leave you naked and hungry (or food poisoned)!

3. The yeoman/admin guys, who can cut your orders to some cold, isolated, God forsaken place where you freeze to death.


V/R
Spam

(I'm sure some of you've heard the story of the many guys who were told by their detailers about all the lovely blondes to meet on a rotation to Keflavik, Iceland, "There's One Behind Every Tree" - only to step off the transport and see zero trees on Iceland... got to respect those detailers and admin guys)!

Left out the medics. Piss them off and you'll lose your shot record and have to redo everything.

Quote from: lordmonar on April 09, 2016, 12:01:30 PM

Quote from: Bryce7454 on April 09, 2016, 06:28:37 AM
When you do something that has contributed to the defense of the nation. Not when you get to wear colorful shapes on your shoulders.

Ehm......everyone who wears the uniform from the lowliest AB at BMTS to the retriing 4 Star AD/NG/RES contributes to the defense of the nation.

I will respectfully disagree with you there in one very specific circumstance.  Now what I am about to say is MY opinion of MYSELF and myself only.  I don't consider myself a veteran because I was never in harm's way during my time in.  I had a cushy job and didn't get within a thousand miles of anyone wishing me harm (unless you count people I would have dealt with even if I hadn't been in the military).  It's the reason why I have no desire to wear my National Defense Medal on my CAP uniform.  I don't consider myself to have earned it. 

My service as a civilian EMS provider and volunteer firefighter to me contributed far more to the defense and well-being of this nation than my job as a respiratory therapist in a backwater military hospital.

Like I said, that assessment doesn't apply to anyone else because it's an internal standard.  If I don't feel that I earned something, even if by definition or regulation I did, I don't want it.

Quote from: KASSRCrashResearch on April 22, 2016, 03:44:21 AMI had a cushy job and didn't get within a thousand miles of anyone wishing me harm (unless you count people I would have dealt with even if I hadn't been in the military). 

The military is a framework.  Only ~4% of those in the Air Force are pilots, the rest support the mission in one way or another,
that doesn't make the service "less".

You can't shoot without bullets and beans.

Quote from: Eclipse on April 22, 2016, 03:51:31 AM

Quote from: KASSRCrashResearch on April 22, 2016, 03:44:21 AMI had a cushy job and didn't get within a thousand miles of anyone wishing me harm (unless you count people I would have dealt with even if I hadn't been in the military). 

The military is a framework.  Only ~4% of those in the Air Force are pilots, the rest support the mission in one way or another,
that doesn't make the service "less".

You can't shoot without bullets and beans.

That's why my assessment only applies to myself.  Anyone else, they're a veteran.  It's weird and I don't expect anyone else to understand but that's how I feel.

Quote from: KASSRCrashResearch on April 22, 2016, 03:44:21 AM

Quote from: lordmonar on April 09, 2016, 12:01:30 PM

Quote from: Bryce7454 on April 09, 2016, 06:28:37 AM
When you do something that has contributed to the defense of the nation. Not when you get to wear colorful shapes on your shoulders.

Ehm......everyone who wears the uniform from the lowliest AB at BMTS to the retriing 4 Star AD/NG/RES contributes to the defense of the nation.

I will respectfully disagree with you there in one very specific circumstance.  Now what I am about to say is MY opinion of MYSELF and myself only.  I don't consider myself a veteran because I was never in harm's way during my time in.  I had a cushy job and didn't get within a thousand miles of anyone wishing me harm (unless you count people I would have dealt with even if I hadn't been in the military).  It's the reason why I have no desire to wear my National Defense Medal on my CAP uniform.  I don't consider myself to have earned it. 

My service as a civilian EMS provider and volunteer firefighter to me contributed far more to the defense and well-being of this nation than my job as a respiratory therapist in a backwater military hospital.

Like I said, that assessment doesn't apply to anyone else because it's an internal standard.  If I don't feel that I earned something, even if by definition or regulation I did, I don't want it.

I'm sorry you feel that way.   You are wrong.  But you I guess you are entitled to your opinion.   Every job in the military contributes to National defense.   Not all of them are on the pointy end of the spear.  But with out all the parts of the spear....the pointy end is useless.

Quote from: lordmonar on April 22, 2016, 05:07:14 AM

I'm sorry you feel that way.   You are wrong.  But you I guess you are entitled to your opinion.   Every job in the military contributes to National defense.   Not all of them are on the pointy end of the spear.  But with out all the parts of the spear....the pointy end is useless.
[/quote]

I get your point but do you mind if I posit a related question and use a hypothetical?  For the sake of argument, let's say that I was to be given an award- a commendation medal for example- for something I did.  Everyone around me thinks that I deserve it.  However, the idea of accepting it makes me uncomfortable because others have done far more to earn it than I have.  Is it right for me to violate my ethical standards just because others disagree?  I am not drawing an analogy between myself and him by any stretch of the imagination but there's the famous case of Marine general Smedley Butler who tried to refuse the Medal of Honor for his actions at Veracruz but the medal was sent back to him and he was ordered to wear it. It doesn't diminish what he and his colleagues did.  He just didn't think he earned it.

It's the same concept: I don't lay claim to the title for personal reasons.  It doesn't make me wrong per se in any way that should matter because it's an internal standard that applies to no one else.  It doesn't diminish what I think of someone who did the exact same job as me or anyone else just like I wouldn't think ill of someone who accepted the award in the scenario I posited.  It just makes me really uncomfortable to be called a veteran because there's nothing I did that makes me feel like I deserve such a respected title.

Doesn't matter.

Your personal opinion does not matter.

Just like General butler.....your opinion about whether you earned it or not simply just does not matter.

And holding yourself to this "higher standard" is in fact an insult to everyone else who earned it by doing the same thing as you.

You served honorably....you are a veteran.  Period....end of story.  By not accepting the title that earned is an insult to those who served in "cushy back water jobs" just like you did.  By you not thinking you are not deserving of the title is also suggesting that those who served as you did also did not earn it.   Remember that actions sometimes speak louder than words.  You say you don't judge all those other people who served just like you did.....but in fact you are judging them, and you want us to respect you more for refusing the title....and by extension respect them less because they accepted the title.

It's good to be humble.  I get where you are coming from.  Just accept the kudos that you have earned and move on.

Crash, you joined, for whatever reasons, you showed up every day at your job, you stood duty, and spent extra time away from your friends and family, and you wore the uniform. That, my friend, makes you a veteran.

Myself, I was a draft-induced enlistment. The draft was after my young ass, and I chose the Navy, instead of pushing a rifle around a swamp. I ended up making a career of it, and enjoy those benefits today. Yet, I am no more or no less of a veteran than you. My "going in harm's way" was doing a little flying as aircrew, and a three year tour on an aircraft carrier in peacetime conditions. Makes no difference at all. We are both veterans.

Thanks to my retirement I have the privilege of having Walter Reed as my primary care facility. lately I have had to visit the hospital on average of twice a month and I can see what the Physicians, Nurses, X ray techs, and other ancillary services do there.  I appreciate all the services they provide and can see from the number of inpatients with prosthetics (some double amputees) just how valuable the medical services are. Your service in a "backwater hospital as a respiratory therapist" was just as important as anybody else's especially to those who you treated and their families.    Dying in respiratory distress is basically drowning in your own fluids, think of how many people you may have saved from internal drowning.

I look at the shadow box on the wall of my office as I read this thread and think:
How many of those awards/medals did I earn on my own?
How many would not be there had my driver/loader/gunner not been there?  What about the mechanics that kept the beast running?  The cooks, clerks, medics that kept us running.  On the right side of the uniform are the unit awards.  Awards which I wear because there were others, many others with me as I was with them.

I read an interview of a Medal of Honor Awardee and he made a statement that the medal was not his, the medal belonged to his crew and many others around him that he was only the custodian.  If you think about it, this is true of almost every award, certificate, medal, ribbon.    No Man Is An Island.

Quote from: Eclipse on April 22, 2016, 03:51:31 AM

Quote from: KASSRCrashResearch on April 22, 2016, 03:44:21 AMI had a cushy job and didn't get within a thousand miles of anyone wishing me harm (unless you count people I would have dealt with even if I hadn't been in the military). 

The military is a framework.  Only ~4% of those in the Air Force are pilots, the rest support the mission in one way or another,
that doesn't make the service "less".

You can't shoot without bullets and beans.

But you can shoot without tops in blue

This is an interesting dialog. My grandfather was a combat-wounded Army vet in Europe during WWII. His son (my Dad) enlisted in the USAF during the cold war. Dad served stateside and the tip of his "spear" was sharpened graphite. Yet I think he is no less proud of his service than he is of his father's, and I have deepest admiration for them both for what they did.

As do I for all of you who served honorably in any capacity.

Quote from: Cliff_Chambliss on April 22, 2016, 01:13:41 PM
I look at the shadow box on the wall of my office as I read this thread and think:
How many of those awards/medals did I earn on my own?
How many would not be there had my driver/loader/gunner not been there?  What about the mechanics that kept the beast running?  The cooks, clerks, medics that kept us running.  On the right side of the uniform are the unit awards.  Awards which I wear because there were others, many others with me as I was with them.

I read an interview of a Medal of Honor Awardee and he made a statement that the medal was not his, the medal belonged to his crew and many others around him that he was only the custodian.  If you think about it, this is true of almost every award, certificate, medal, ribbon.    No Man Is An Island.

Exactly!!! Everyone is a big deal in the service, we can't accomplish anything without the team.

The late Field Marshal Viscount Slim used to make sure that everyone in his command recognized the contributions of the men and women in the rear-and that the men in the rear knew the hardships of those in the field. He too worked in a backwater forgotten command with the task of regaining Singapore and the Malay Peninsula.

Quote from: SarDragon on April 22, 2016, 07:04:09 AM
Crash, you joined, for whatever reasons, you showed up every day at your job, you stood duty, and spent extra time away from your friends and family, and you wore the uniform. That, my friend, makes you a veteran.

Myself, I was a draft-induced enlistment. The draft was after my young ass, and I chose the Navy, instead of pushing a rifle around a swamp. I ended up making a career of it, and enjoy those benefits today. Yet, I am no more or no less of a veteran than you. My "going in harm's way" was doing a little flying as aircrew, and a three year tour on an aircraft carrier in peacetime conditions. Makes no difference at all. We are both veterans.

Fair enough guys.  I do appreciate a deserved kick in the *** even if I am on the receiving end.

Quote from: MSG Mac on April 22, 2016, 07:48:02 AM
Thanks to my retirement I have the privilege of having Walter Reed as my primary care facility. lately I have had to visit the hospital on average of twice a month and I can see what the Physicians, Nurses, X ray techs, and other ancillary services do there.  I appreciate all the services they provide and can see from the number of inpatients with prosthetics (some double amputees) just how valuable the medical services are. Your service in a "backwater hospital as a respiratory therapist" was just as important as anybody else's especially to those who you treated and their families.    Dying in respiratory distress is basically drowning in your own fluids, think of how many people you may have saved from internal drowning.

Probably far more than I have saved under other circumstances.  I, at times, just get really uncomfortable being given attention for things I do or did.   Thanks.