Best Compass for UDF and Ground Team Work

[Eclipse]

Not to mention that if you enable Latitude you can track the team in real-time from the ICP.

[JoeTomasone]

Not to mention that if you enable Latitude you can track the team in real-time from the ICP.

There's a few tools for that, but the eat battery pretty quicky, so I would only use them if it was requested.   Used it last year during a UDF during Sun & Fun and they knew where we were at all times.

[Eclipse]

Not to mention that if you enable Latitude you can track the team in real-time from the ICP.

There's a few tools for that, but they eat battery pretty quicky, so I would only use them if it was requested.   Used it last year during a UDF during Sun & Fun and they knew where we were at all times.

Time to get a real phone with a high-capacity, replaceable battery!

[davidsinn]

I never go to a CAP activity w/o my Garmin III+ - ancient and reliable, but these days most decent cell phones have a GPS and a compass
which is adequate for land nav if not more pinpoint use.

You gotta love convergence.

iPhone 3G/3GS = UDF force multiplier.   

Look up tail #'s online, check regs, plot lat/longs in Maps, make calls, monitor weather, find the nearest gas/coffee/donuts, get the number for the FBO, lookup data on any airfield, take mission notes (like serial number, battery exp. date, etc), capture the lat/long of the ELT for the IC (heck, snap a picture), and email it all before you even leave the find site. 

Oh, then add that find to your "Find" database on Google Docs. 

The 3GS has a GPS *and* a digital compass.

I can do all of that and more with the sole exception of the compass with my HTC Touch Pro 2. I also can get cell service with it too as I'm not tied to ATT Did I mention every single spec on mine is better and the thing is cheaper?

[N Harmon]

Almost 25 years of orienteering and I've only used the Silva Ranger.

How do you use that compass? Is the mirror so you can look at the needle and adjust the bezel while you're finding an azimuth?

I have a Cammenga lensatic compass that has served me pretty well. I also keep a Silva Starter in my pack for map work along with a variety of gridders from maptools.com.

[JoeTomasone]

I never go to a CAP activity w/o my Garmin III+ - ancient and reliable, but these days most decent cell phones have a GPS and a compass
which is adequate for land nav if not more pinpoint use.

You gotta love convergence.

iPhone 3G/3GS = UDF force multiplier.   

Look up tail #'s online, check regs, plot lat/longs in Maps, make calls, monitor weather, find the nearest gas/coffee/donuts, get the number for the FBO, lookup data on any airfield, take mission notes (like serial number, battery exp. date, etc), capture the lat/long of the ELT for the IC (heck, snap a picture), and email it all before you even leave the find site. 

Oh, then add that find to your "Find" database on Google Docs. 

The 3GS has a GPS *and* a digital compass.

I can do all of that and more with the sole exception of the compass with my HTC Touch Pro 2. I also can get cell service with it too as I'm not tied to ATT Did I mention every single spec on mine is better and the thing is cheaper?

Let's not go there...   I'll win, and it's more fun debating the regs. 

[Eclipse]

Let's not go there...   I'll win, and it's more fun debating the regs. 

Against Windows Mobile - maybe, against my G1, you're eating dust, buddy, and you don't even want to look a Droid or a Nexus One in the eye, but yes, back to the compass.

You align your fixed object in the v-goove at the top of the mirror and use the mirror to read the compass.

[Bluelakes 13]

Last night I happen to be playing with My Touch Android phone before driving home.  I found there is a Navigate under Google Maps.  So I tried it compared to my Garmin Nuvi 760.  H O L Y  C O W!  It was more accuarate than the Garmin!

[N Harmon]

You align your fixed object in the v-goove at the top of the mirror and use the mirror to read the compass.

So, aside from the single aimpoint, you're fiddling with the bezel too? I think I might prefer my military lensatic with the moving numbers.

But, to each their own.

[Eclipse]

Last night I happen to be playing with My Touch Android phone before driving home.  I found there is a Navigate under Google Maps.  So I tried it compared to my Garmin Nuvi 760.  H O L Y  C O W!  It was more accuarate than the Garmin!

Yeah, turn-by-turn with voice rocks - add GPS manufacturer to the list of businesses not to be in anymore..

[Eclipse]

You align your fixed object in the v-goove at the top of the mirror and use the mirror to read the compass.

So, aside from the single aimpoint, you're fiddling with the bezel too? I think I might prefer my military lensatic with the moving numbers.

But, to each their own.

It works the same as a lensatic in that respect, only one thing moves.

[Pingree1492]

Is the mirror so you can look at the needle and adjust the bezel while you're finding an azimuth?

Yes.  Is pretty useful on the planes where you see only grass for miles and miles and miles, but in the mountains/forested area it doesn't really matter that much.  The mirror basically makes it function more like an orienteering compass.

Really, the only thing I tell my cadets when they're looking for a compass is to keep it simple, and find one that doesn't have any air bubbles in it.  The problem I've seen with Silvia Orienteering compasses are that a lot of them already have an air bubble under the spiny dial, rendering it useless before you even buy it (was trying to buy one at Sportsman's Warehouse, and all 3 compasses they had on the rack had an air bubble).


So to sum up my compass-buying advice: stay cheap, make sure you can read the bearing down to a 1 degree accuracy (so 2 deg tick marks are okay), and make sure the compass doesn't have any air bubbles in the liquid before you buy it.  Extra bells and whistles are nice, but ultimately not necessary.

[JoeTomasone]

find one that doesn't have any air bubbles in it.

Just for edification purposes, what's the reason behind that?  I presume inaccuracy, but don't know exactly why.

Too bad we can't have a smartphone smackdown thread..  Could be entertaining.   

[Stonewall]

How do you use that compass? Is the mirror so you can look at the needle and adjust the bezel while you're finding an azimuth?

The mirror is almost irrelevant as far as I am concerned and as far as land nav is concerned, but I do use it for other things (applying camo, popping a zit, making sure my nose is clean).  On the mirror itself is a solid black line with a notch at the end of it to assist you in a more accurate azimuth.

[Pingree1492]

find one that doesn't have any air bubbles in it.

Just for edification purposes, what's the reason behind that?  I presume inaccuracy, but don't know exactly why.

Yes, inaccuracy.  Especially if you have a floating platform dial, the air bubble prevents that from freely spinning, thus resulting in bearings that can be 90 or more degrees off.  So if you have air bubbles in your orienteering compass (as these use the circular platform) your compass is basically trash.

It's not as critical in a needle compass if you're careful, just ensure that your air bubble is well away from your needle so that it will turn freely in the liquid and you'll be okay.  But don't intentionally buy a compass with this problem, as it's a PITA to deal with sometimes.

[JoeTomasone]

find one that doesn't have any air bubbles in it.

Just for edification purposes, what's the reason behind that?  I presume inaccuracy, but don't know exactly why.

Yes, inaccuracy.  Especially if you have a floating platform dial, the air bubble prevents that from freely spinning, thus resulting in bearings that can be 90 or more degrees off.  So if you have air bubbles in your orienteering compass (as these use the circular platform) your compass is basically trash.

It's not as critical in a needle compass if you're careful, just ensure that your air bubble is well away from your needle so that it will turn freely in the liquid and you'll be okay.  But don't intentionally buy a compass with this problem, as it's a PITA to deal with sometimes.

Cool, thanks.  I'll have to check the knock-off of the $50 one posted above that I bought to see if it's got any air.

There are a few compasses in the PX.. Might have to check out what they carry here just for the heck of it.   Might be interesting to put the iPhone's to the test with it.

[sardak]

Regarding bubbles, I had one develop in a Silva Ranger that was large enough to make the compass unusable. A friend told me that Silva compasses are guaranteed for life. I called Sliva and they said to send it back to them. For the cost of postage to send it to them, they sent me in return a brand new replacement. They discuss this on their website:
We intend that our compasses are free of bubbles; however, if a small bubble forms in the liquid-filled capsule, it has no influence on the accuracy of the compass. Its appearance and disappearance are due to changes in temperature and atmospheric pressure. If a bubble larger than 1/4" in diameter appears, it is probably the result of a leaking capsule, usually caused by some form of shock damage, and the capsule will have to be replaced. In that case, just call our customer satisfaction department for a return authorization number and shipping address. From the U.S.A, call 1-800-572-8822 between 8 am-6 pm, eastern time. From Canada, call 1-800-263-6390.

I own two Rangers. The use of the sighting feature is beneficial for long range bearings (azimuths) and for more accurate short range ones. And yes, the mirror comes in handy for the other uses mentioned, as well as for signaling and detecting breathing. I also own a Suunto sighting compass, that isn't made anymore, which can be read to a 1/2 degree. It looks like the current model KB-14 but with a plastic case and the specs of a KB-20. http://www.suunto.com/en/Products/#filter=897  I have these because I do custom mapping work which requires additional accuracy but not enough for surveying equipment.

For general land nav, the Suunto for sure is overkill and the added accuracy of the sighting feature on the Ranger may or may not be necessary. This feature can be useful for long range DFing, which most people never have to do, and in which the accuracy of the DFing is generally worse than the accuracy of the compass (several degrees on the DFing vs the 2 degree increment on the compass).  I also teach land nav courses in which accurate bearings/azimuths are a big help.

Mike

[NavLT]

It is all about training and farmiliarization.  The orienteering compass takes about 10 hours to become proficieint with and the Lensatic takes about 50-70 (Per the DOD).  If you have the time to commit the extra 40-60 hours it does not really matter as they both have a needle that points north.

V/R
Lt J.

[Senior]

A lot of good points here.  I am more familiar with the military lensatic
compass and prefer using it.  I have used Silva Compasses and they are  simple to use.  I keep a very small Silva in my map case for general direction finding.  When I was at PJOC the PJ's all used the Silva Compasses.  I would warn anybody not to buy a Military Type or
Military Style Lensatic Compass from Wal-Mart, etc..  Make sure you buy a Lensatic that is made by Stocker and Yale or Cammenga.  Make sure the dial rotates without any hesitation when the compass is held level if new or used.  I have bought used military issue lensatics that worked fine.  Good luck.   

[Pingree1492]

Regarding bubbles, I had one develop in a Silva Ranger that was large enough to make the compass unusable. A friend told me that Silva compasses are guaranteed for life. I called Sliva and they said to send it back to them. For the cost of postage to send it to them, they sent me in return a brand new replacement. They discuss this on their website:
We intend that our compasses are free of bubbles; however, if a small bubble forms in the liquid-filled capsule, it has no influence on the accuracy of the compass. Its appearance and disappearance are due to changes in temperature and atmospheric pressure. If a bubble larger than 1/4" in diameter appears, it is probably the result of a leaking capsule, usually caused by some form of shock damage, and the capsule will have to be replaced. In that case, just call our customer satisfaction department for a return authorization number and shipping address. From the U.S.A, call 1-800-572-8822 between 8 am-6 pm, eastern time. From Canada, call 1-800-263-6390.
[...]

Mike

That's pretty cool, thanks for the info.  Maybe it's the altitude that most compasses I see tend to have a bubble or two in them.  It's actually why I made the switch to using a lensatic compass after the case on my hand-me-down military orienteering compass cracked, and became unusable.