NGSAR 2003 credit - help!

Started by ladyreferee, October 27, 2005, 04:00:11 PM

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

ladyreferee

I have a senior in my squadron who needs help getting credited for having attended the NGSAR as a team member back in 2003.  His instructor forgot to write down his CAP ID# on his check out sheet and National won't process the paperwork until that number is attached.  Problem is, the cadet in charge of his team was from NE and here is Wis. I haven't gotten it solved going through Wing.  Anyone out there who has a contact for finding out this information?  Am I correct that until he gets credited for having graduated (he has his certificate saying that), he can't be a ground team member for a SAREX? 
CHERYL K CARROLL, Major, CAP

Pylon

Quote from: ladyreferee on October 27, 2005, 04:00:11 PM
I have a senior in my squadron who needs help getting credited for having attended the NGSAR as a team member back in 2003.  His instructor forgot to write down his CAP ID# on his check out sheet and National won't process the paperwork until that number is attached.  Problem is, the cadet in charge of his team was from NE and here is Wis. I haven't gotten it solved going through Wing.  Anyone out there who has a contact for finding out this information?  Am I correct that until he gets credited for having graduated (he has his certificate saying that), he can't be a ground team member for a SAREX? 

As far as being a Ground Team member goes, it's not necessary to get the credit through NGSAR.  Anybody who, themselves, is a Ground Team member and has taken the online SET test, can check this guy off.

Obviously, he got the training he needed to be a GTM at NGSAR.  Therefore, all he would have to do is demonstrate the he knows the tasks on the SQTR sheet to another qualified GTM with SET.  That person could sign him off on the tasks with their own CAPID.   No need to track down the instructor from another Wing.

Sure, it's a little extra work, but if he wants to participate in Ground Team ops now and not wait to figure out the CAPID of his previous instructor, then this would be the quickest route.
Michael F. Kieloch, Maj, CAP

capchiro

I agree with Pylon and since it has been two years since he went through training, he probably should demonstrate his knowledge of the subject to someone who is current.  I think that if he graduated in 2003 he might have a currency issue anyway.
Lt. Col. Harry E. Siegrist III, CAP
Commander
Sweetwater Comp. Sqdn.
GA154

Horn229

Well, since I've been staffing NGSAR since '02 I'll respond to this as well.

Why so long of a delay in trying to get it all approved now? In 2003, they weren't sending members home with CAPID's, and I doubt anyone is going to give it to you either. Also, last June when it was announced there was going to be a switch in training requirements, it was said that members will have until November to complete current training before all trainee documents were erased. And finally, there is a two year rule to get a qualification. If someone starts training in a specialty, they have two years to complete it.

So basically, this member of yours sat on it way too long. Even if there wasn't the switch last June, his two year mark ended Jul 31st (or Aug 31st, depending on which week he was there). As of last June, his NGSAR certificate is void, in terms of using it to get a GTM rating. He'll have to go through all the training again to get the rating according to the 60-3.

NICHOLAS A. HORN, Senior Member, CAP

Pylon

Quote from: Horn229
He'll have to go through all the training again to get the rating according to the 60-3.

Well, I don't agree with that part, but as for using his NGSAR credit you have a point.  I think he can get issued a new blank SQTR and if he is confident that he remembers his skills, he can demonstrate all of the appropriate tasks to a qualified GTM with SET.  There's no requriement that he had to have gone to NGSAR to qualify as a GTM.

If he recalls his training and wants to get his rating, he shouldn't have to do anything more than demonstrate his ability to any (appropriate level) GTM with SET, and he'll become a *GTM.  He can serve his two sorties and get his rating that way.

He won't have to take any additional formalized training if he properly recalls what he needs to know.
Michael F. Kieloch, Maj, CAP

Horn229

Thought I'd add in the reg cite for clarification.

Quote from: Transition Letter2. First, training requirements for emergency services specialty qualifications transition from CAPF 101Ts to those found in the appropriate task guides for ES specialties. We understand that personnel are in various states of training, and want to give them time to complete the training they have started while also allowing other personnel to take advantage of the new guidance. Personnel that have already started training on a CAPF 101T will be allowed to complete training according to those standards until the end of August, 2004. All CAPF101Ts will be revoked and considered obsolete on the 1st of September as they have been superceded. Please encourage your members to either transition to the new guidance or complete their training under the 101Ts as soon as possible so that they are not surprised by these changes on 1 September, 2004. Task guides are now available electronically for all specialties with other curriculum at: http://level2.cap.gov/index.cfm?nodeID=5312, and will soon be available in paper format for purchase from CAPMart.

Quote from: CAPR 60-32-2 a. Personnel are authorized to train for the specialty rating qualifications listed in paragraph 2-3 by their unit commander (including approved emergency services school directors) except incident commander or agency liaison (see paragraph 2-2f). Training to qualify in a specialty is expected to be completed within 2 years. Members not completing training requirements within two years should expect to re-demonstrate expired portions of their training.

There you go, the 60-3 says that members have two years to complete training, after that time they have to redemonstrate what they've been signed off in. Now, looking at the transition letter, it says that all 101T's were void Sept 1 2004 (not November as I has previously stated).

So ya, as Pylon said, just get him a new GTM Level 3 SQTR issued (he does have the new Gen ES from June '04, right?), and he shouldn't have any problem getting the tasks signed off if he still remembers everything. He won't be able to get a higher level without more training, as the Level 2 and 1 specialties contain some of the old GTL tasks.
NICHOLAS A. HORN, Senior Member, CAP

ladyreferee

Well, life gets in the way sometimes.  This senior is a extremely busy doctor who became a supervisor in a large hospital - he could only be our commander for a few months before he had to bow out - I only see him at church these days!
CHERYL K CARROLL, Major, CAP