CAP Reputation

[ZigZag911]

The comm issue is tricky, as far as our CAP specific freqs are concerned.

However, as an IC myself, I'd never tell the local authorities "I can't give you this"; rather, I'd suggest the mutual freqs, and tell them I'd seek authorization for giving them the CAP freqs (which I might well not receive, but even then I've made a good faith effort to work with the local folks).

As for concealing our search grids, that's just plain silly, as well as unsafe...we want other air assets to know where we'll be searching so there is no confusion, unnecessary overlap in search patterns, or risks of mid-air collisions!

[JC004]

Talking about who is legally responsible for SAR reminded me of that chart that is broken down by state, showing what agency is responsible in each state (sheriff, CAP, etc.).  Does anyone remember where that chart can be found?

[FW]

2.  Improved education of clients and potential clients.  A really nice, well-designed booklet that introduces CAP, shares our actual resources and qualifications, and plainly lays out the procedures for requesting CAP's help  (like a professionally-designed and professionally-rewritten version of the old CAPabilities Handbook) would go a long way to educating other agencies (like Sheriffs and LEOs, state and county EMOs, etc.) and reducing misconceptions about who we are, what we do, and how to use us.

"Back in the Day", it was SOP to invite outside agencies to our annual SAREX's and, to have table top exercises with outside agencies (role playing) during SAREVAL's.  It was a good way to stay sharp with our interagency skills and, a great way to show our colleagues we could play well with others.  I know there are quite a few wings in CAP which continue with this practice.  However, if the view from some is be xenophobic with their skills, the only missions assigned will be training missions. 

Radio freq. opsec is intended to keep our frequencies from becoming known to unauthorized individuals.  If we are part of a larger operation, everyone involved must know all the information needed to successfully prosecute it.  The IC system was developed just for this purpose.  Or, am I mistaken?  Have we learned anything in the last 9 years?

[Eclipse]

I disagree any of this is "tricky"  CAP operations and information, and for the most part SAR in general, is all "FOUO" - nothing we do is "secret" and another agency requesting information falls squarely into "OU".

[desertengineer1]

The frequency release policy easily accomodates inter-agency operation.  If a state or city emergency or LE agency wants to monitor our comms in day-day operations, that's what an MOU and commpermissions is for. 

I don't understand why people continue to "not get it".  I've explained the OPSEC AFI 10-701 reasoning over and over.  DC's have repeatedly explained the commpermission process.

This is not rocket science.  If you have a need, simply document it through an MOU (or at least cite it as part of an existing MOU for crying out loud), and follow the commpermissions procedure.

If a real world need arises, call the operations center and they will pull the strings needed to get you what you need.

Why is this so hard?

[sardak]

Talking about who is legally responsible for SAR reminded me of that chart that is broken down by state, showing what agency is responsible in each state (sheriff, CAP, etc.).  Does anyone remember where that chart can be found?

You're probably thinking of the "Who's In Charge of Aeronautical SAR?" over at Scott Lanis' CAP ES site:  http://www.cap-es.net/zips/whosar.PDF

This chart is dated 1995 so there may be changes. This chart is for aeronautical SAR only, so doesn't list who else may be "in charge" of SAR. That question should be best answered by the State Search and Rescue Coordinators Council  http://www.ssarcc.com/index.php?option=com_frontpage&Itemid=1

Mike

[JC004]

That may be what I saw.  Thanks.  I wish there were an updated one...

[BillB]

All of the new CAP frequencies are already posted on scanner web sites. I downloaded them a few months ago and have a scanner all set up with the new frequencies. However the scanner is not P25 capable, but so far CAP has not used any P25 transmissions in my area.

[Flying Pig]

Are there any areas where CAP is actually "responsible" completely for SAR?  I would imagine it would at least default to the State Police of that Wing ultimately.  I would certainly hope there isnt a Wing where volunteers are completely the go-to organization.

[RiverAux]

Are there any areas where CAP is actually "responsible" completely for SAR?  I would imagine it would at least default to the State Police of that Wing ultimately.  I would certainly hope there isnt a Wing where volunteers are completely the go-to organization.

In every state, the state emergency management agency is in charge and the exact working relationship with CAP is laid out in the MOU between that state and CAP.  That being said, CAP does have a somewhat different relationship with states than do many other volunteer organizations since we are representing a federal agency with some direct responsibilities for certain types of missions (AF and air SAR for example).  Additionally, some states also give CAP members some level of status as representatives of the states in some situations.  So, its not like CAP is exactly equivalent to a totally independent random organization of emergency volunteers. 

[RVT]

CAP does have a somewhat different relationship with states than do many other volunteer organizations since we are representing a federal agency with some direct responsibilities for certain types of missions (AF and air SAR for example).  Additionally, some states also give CAP members some level of status as representatives of the states in some situations.  So, its not like CAP is exactly equivalent to a totally independent random organization of emergency volunteers.

And probably no two people have the same idea as to just what that is.  You used "some" four times.  Feel free to call a SAR for me because I'm lost.

[RiverAux]

Its a slightly different relationship in every single state.  Can't lay out each individual situation even if I knew it.  Thats the perils of being in a national organization that has to work with local agencies. 

[sardak]

In every state, the state emergency management agency is in charge

Not a true statement. In Colorado, Montana, New Hampshire and New Mexico , for examples, it is not the state emergency management agency.

Are there any areas where CAP is actually "responsible" completely for SAR?  I would imagine it would at least default to the State Police of that Wing ultimately.  I would certainly hope there isnt a Wing where volunteers are completely the go-to organization.

In Colorado, AFRCC calls COWG directly for missing aircraft and ELT missions. There is no governmental agency that gets the call.

For PLB missions AFRCC calls the Colorado Search and Rescue Board. It is a 100% volunteer organization, including the on-call coordinators.

Mike

[RiverAux]

In every state, the state emergency management agency is in charge

Not a true statement. In Colorado, Montana, New Hampshire and New Mexico , for examples, it is not the state emergency management agency.

So, basically there is no state agency that has any authority over ES activities in those states and CAP can do what it wants?  That must be great.   Actually, I'm assuming it is just some other agency not called "emergency management".  Thats fine and just another example of variations by state.

In Colorado, AFRCC calls COWG directly for missing aircraft and ELT missions. There is no governmental agency that gets the call.

Dollars to donuts that is because there is an MOU between the AFRCC and the state that specifically says it is ok for AFRCC to call out CAP directly.  That doesn't mean that the state has abdicated ultimate authority for the mission, just that they have delegated it to CAP. 

[arajca]

In COWG, CAP does not fall under the OEM (Office of Emergency Management), we fall under the DMVA (Department of Military and Veterans Affairs).  We report to the AG.

[sardak]

^^^
Yes, in some of those states there is a state agency responsible for SAR but it isn't the emergency management agency, which you specifically stated. Here are some of the types of state agencies that have attended the state SAR coordinators meetings: aeronautics, state police, fish and game, military affairs, emergency management and homeland security.

In Colorado, I can assure with you 100% certainty, that there is no state agency with SAR authority statewide for ground or air SAR. CAP is the lead air SAR agency because there is no other choice. It has been this way for many, many years.

Arajca is correct that COWG falls under Military Affairs, as do the Air and Army Guard. However, DMVA is not chartered as, nor does it perform the duties of, the agency having jurisdiction or authority for statewide SAR.

Mike

[RiverAux]

So, you are actually saying that CAP has the full and complete ultimate authority for air SAR in CO?  That this authority is not based on an agreement between AFRCC and some state agency and is not being done under the auspices of an MOU between CAP and the state?  In other words, that because of the magical power of CO Wing, they have this authority based on god given right. 

Must be nice to work in a state where CAP members can actually tell the county sheriffs and the National Guard for that matter to butt out of our air SAR missions. 

[N Harmon]

He said he couldnt believe that Congress was buying the all volunteer CAP millions upon millions of dollars of turbo prop aircraft and also UAV's for drug interdiction when full time LE was laying off cops.

Just to note, quite a few local agencies are being pressed to justify their high-dollar assets like airplanes and helicopters, and the availability of a trained and equipped volunteer organization capable of doing what those assets can do, is occasionally being seen as a threat to their keeping such toys. As a result we have a lot of local agencies making up reasons (some rather silly) as to why CAP does not fit their needs.

I am not saying that is the case here. It is just an observation of mine.

Are there any areas where CAP is actually "responsible" completely for SAR?  I would imagine it would at least default to the State Police of that Wing ultimately.  I would certainly hope there isnt a Wing where volunteers are completely the go-to organization.

Last time I saw the list, which was a few years ago, there were a handful of states where CAP is the responsible entity for SAR.

This list used to be available on the AFRCC's website at: http://www.acc.af.mil/library/factsheets/factsheet.asp?id=3721  But now that link goes to a Virginia website and is 404.

[Eclipse]

Wasn't CAP in IAWG the official state SAR agency before the... unpleasantness...what did that actually mean in practice?

[SarDragon]

This list used to be available on the AFRCC's website at: http://www.acc.af.mil/library/factsheets/factsheet.asp?id=3721  But now that link goes to a Virginia website and is 404.

I found this, but didn't look at any of the sites:

http://www.vdem.state.va.us/links/otherstate_em/index.cfm