Sage Green Fleece?

[JK657]

Has anyone seen the new green fleece authorized by the most recent air force uniform board? Do you think this will be authorized for CAP when its time for the transition to the ABU? Is/Was the black fleece authorized for the BDUs?

[Hawk200]

Yes. Yes. Not with ours.

[Stonewall]

I've got one and sewed sage/foliage velcro for a my embroidered foliage name tag. I did this before the recent uniform policy change.  I just can't believe we can wear it without ID/rank.

My wife just got issued hers too, but no velcro.  She also got the new ABU gore-tex, which costs like $250.  The crappy thing is that you are required to wear your ABU blouse under the fleece.

[Seabee219]

I think it will be the year 2012 or later before we get to wear the New AF ABUs, I have a pair already just in case 

[Stonewall]

Pictured are sage green fleece outer garments with proper placement of name and rank tapes. Members of the 98th Air Force Virtual Uniform Board released a policy message for wearing the new Air Force sage green fleece as an outer garment for the airman battle uniform. (U.S. Air Force photo)

10/14/2009 - WRIGHT-PATTERSON AIR FORCE BASE, Ohio (AFNS) -- The 98th Air Force Virtual Uniform Board released a policy message here Oct. 9 for wearing the new Air Force sage green fleece as an outer garment for the airman battle uniform.

According to the message, the sage green fleece may only be worn over the ABU top, and is not authorized to be worn solely over a T-shirt, thermal underwear and similar undergarments, when worn as an outer garment.

According to the message signed by Lt. Gen. Richard Y. Newton III, deputy chief of staff for Manpower and Personnel at, Headquarters U.S. Air Force, Washington, authorized wear of the sage green fleece requires the following:
-- a Velcro ABU print last name tape with dark blue block lettering, centered between the zipper and sleeve seam on the wearer's right chest,
-- a Velcro ABU print U.S. Air Force tape with dark blue block lettering, adjacent to the name tape and centered between the zipper and sleeve seem on the wearers left chest,
-- a Velcro subdued cloth rank with a solid sage green background, flushed and centered above the last name tape on the wearer's right chest,
-- the fleece must remain zipped no lower than halfway between the name tape and the collar,
-- the collar must be folded over and resting on the shoulder, chest and back when the zipper is not completely zipped,
-- the bottom length of the fleece must be as close to length of ABU top as possible,
-- the sleeves must be worn down at all times, and
-- the fleece must be kept in a neat, serviceable and professional appearance at all times.

Items authorized for wear with the fleece include black or sage green leather, suede or knit gloves, black or sage green watch caps, black scarves that are tucked in, and black ear muffs.

The uniform board has authorized wear of the sage green fleece without name tapes and rank as an outer garment until Oct 1, 2010. Both the black and the green fleece without tapes and rank may be worn as a liner to the all-purpose environmental clothing system, or APECS. The black fleece will phase-out Oct 1, 2010.

New sage green fleece outer garments will be made available first to deployed Airmen.

Airmen with questions regarding this article should address them through their chain of command, or by calling the Air Force Personnel Center at 800-525-0102, or DSN 665-5000

[VPI18]

According to the message signed by Lt. Gen. Richard Y. Newton III, deputy chief of staff for Manpower and Personnel at, Headquarters U.S. Air Force, Washington, authorized wear of the sage green fleece requires the following:
-- a Velcro ABU print last name tape with dark blue block lettering, centered between the zipper and sleeve seam on the wearer's right chest,
-- a Velcro ABU print U.S. Air Force tape with dark blue block lettering, adjacent to the name tape and centered between the zipper and sleeve seem on the wearers left chest,

FAIL.

Sorry, I couldn't resist.

[PHall]

According to the message signed by Lt. Gen. Richard Y. Newton III, deputy chief of staff for Manpower and Personnel at, Headquarters U.S. Air Force, Washington, authorized wear of the sage green fleece requires the following:
-- a Velcro ABU print last name tape with dark blue block lettering, centered between the zipper and sleeve seam on the wearer's right chest,
-- a Velcro ABU print U.S. Air Force tape with dark blue block lettering, adjacent to the name tape and centered between the zipper and sleeve seem on the wearers left chest,

FAIL.

Sorry, I couldn't resist.

And your point is?   

[VPI18]

According to the message signed by Lt. Gen. Richard Y. Newton III, deputy chief of staff for Manpower and Personnel at, Headquarters U.S. Air Force, Washington, authorized wear of the sage green fleece requires the following:
-- a Velcro ABU print last name tape with dark blue block lettering, centered between the zipper and sleeve seam on the wearer's right chest,
-- a Velcro ABU print U.S. Air Force tape with dark blue block lettering, adjacent to the name tape and centered between the zipper and sleeve seem on the wearers left chest,

FAIL.

Sorry, I couldn't resist.

And your point is?

Sometimes the Air Force can't even tell left from right.

[EMT-83]

Am I missing something?

The photo shows the name tape on the wearer's left chest and U.S. Air Force name tape and cloth rank on the wearer's right chest. Isn't that what the regulation calls for?

[RiverAux]

The photo shows the exact opposite. 

[EMT-83]

If I'm wearing the garment and look down, isn't the name tape on the left side?

[JoeTomasone]

If I'm wearing the garment and look down, isn't the name tape on the left side?

Yes.  But:

a Velcro ABU print last name tape with dark blue block lettering, centered between the zipper and sleeve seam on the wearer's right chest,

[brenaud]

If I'm wearing the garment and look down, isn't the name tape on the left side?

Yes.  But:

a Velcro ABU print last name tape with dark blue block lettering, centered between the zipper and sleeve seam on the wearer's right chest,

Right...look back to the original photos.  The folded fleece is correct, the other is not.

I don't know that I'm a fan of the grade insignia placement.  I like it on either the shoulder, collar or sleeve.  (For the same reason, I'm not a fan of it's placement on the ACU).  Just a personal preference, I guess.

[Hawk200]

If I'm wearing the garment and look down, isn't the name tape on the left side?

It shouldn't be. The Air Force tape is what you should be seeing if you look down to your left side on a garment that you are wearing. You should see a nametape on your right side.

I don't know that I'm a fan of the grade insignia placement.  I like it on either the shoulder, collar or sleeve.  (For the same reason, I'm not a fan of it's placement on the ACU).  Just a personal preference, I guess.

Not many options really available. Collar is out because the collar is designed to zip up to the point where it insulates the neck. Zipping the garment to the neck would cover insignia.

Shoulder is not practical on that pattern because there's really no reference point to standardize placement on that pattern of garment. With only a few exceptions, enlisted do not normally wear rank on the shoulder as a matter of course. (Is there enough caveat in there? Or does anyone think that I'm probably still gonna get somebody that goes "Nuh-uh! They wear it like that on the {insert item name here}!" ?)

Same issue with sleeve rank. The pattern doesn't really lend itself to sleeve placement of rank either.

Putting tapes and rank on underlayers like that is really unnecessary. There are other items that don't have names on them, and it's not an issue. This boils down to brass hates it when they don't know who "Joe" is.

[Nick]

Ya know... you guys could be a dead horse to death again.

The name tapes are worn the same way they are on every other ABU/ACU/BDU/fatigue style uniform since the beginning of the modern military.  It ain't different.  If the policy letter reads wrong, it's because someone at the Puzzle Palace didn't have their coffee before they sent it out.

About the velcro rank thing -- it's especially becoming more common to be placed on the chest in the Air Force thanks to the new ACU pattern IBA vests, since that's how they Army set theirs up... so we're going to start seeing a lot of square rank patches floating around as folks rotate through the desert.

Edit: Although, I really do think it's silly to have ABU name tapes and then a sage green background on the rank.  I suspect it's so you can just take an APECS rank slide, cut it down and slap velcro on it ... but it looks a little, well ... silly.

[brenaud]

Not many options really available.

Yeah, I realize it's really the only practical place.  I'm just not wild about it.  But since I'm not in charge of designing uniforms, I guess I'll have to get over it!

Oh, and for what it's worth you included sufficient caveats!

[Hawk200]

I'm just not wild about it.

I'm not either, and I have to wear things that require it. But we press on, do our jobs.

Oh, and for what it's worth you included sufficient caveats!

Give it time, there's probably someone who hasn't seen this thread yet.

[citizensoldier]

I just dread the NCO rank version if we have to pin through a velcro backed patch.

[Hawk200]

I just dread the NCO rank version if we have to pin through a velcro backed patch.

Huh?

[MIKE]

He's talking CAP NCO.

[Hawk200]

He's talking CAP NCO.

I'm still missing something. Why pin insignia through a Velcro patch?

[Stonewall]

I think he's assuming that, as a Senior Member, CAP NCO (SSgt I believe), he would not be able to use the AF velcro rank tab, thus requiring he use the pin-on version of SSgt rank.

I'd just use the AF velcro one.

[Hawk200]

I think he's assuming that, as a Senior Member, CAP NCO (SSgt I believe), he would not be able to use the AF velcro rank tab, thus requiring he use the pin-on version of SSgt rank.

Oh, I see. That just didn't register when I was reading it.

I'd just use the AF velcro one.

If in the same position, so would I. I'd probably advocate it too, until such time as Vanguard made CAP specific ones available.

Considering that Congress is now getting involved in the "unified uniforms" issue, I wouldn't be surprised if development on a lot of ABU items for the Air Force or CAP is gonna stall in a year or two. It doesn't serve Vanguard's interests to produce items that would be shortlived.

[RogueLeader]

Hasn't stopped them yet.

Even the Army has Name on left and rank/army tape on the right side of the fleece.

[O-Rex]

I think he's assuming that, as a Senior Member, CAP NCO (SSgt I believe), he would not be able to use the AF velcro rank tab, thus requiring he use the pin-on version of SSgt rank.

Oh, I see. That just didn't register when I was reading it.

I'd just use the AF velcro one.

If in the same position, so would I. I'd probably advocate it too, until such time as Vanguard made CAP specific ones available.

Considering that Congress is now getting involved in the "unified uniforms" issue, I wouldn't be surprised if development on a lot of ABU items for the Air Force or CAP is gonna stall in a year or two. It doesn't serve Vanguard's interests to produce items that would be shortlived.

Anyone taking bets for multicam for all services by 2018???

[Stonewall]

There was another thread about a unified uniform (multi-cam).  On my blackberry so I can't search.

I say by 2012.

[Hawk200]

There was another thread about a unified uniform (multi-cam).  On my blackberry so I can't search.

I say by 2012.

I'd buy that.

[RogueLeader]

There was another thread about a unified uniform (multi-cam).  On my blackberry so I can't search.

I say by 2012.

I'd buy that.

I'll let them issue it to me.  It's very expensive.  twice the cost of ACU/ABU's.

[Stonewall]

I'd buy that.

I'll let them issue it to me.  It's very expensive.  twice the cost of ACU/ABU's.

I don't think he meant that he would purchase them, but rather that he could see 2012 being a viable date for a uni-form for all services.

[Hawk200]

I don't think he meant that he would purchase them, but rather that he could see 2012 being a viable date for a uni-form for all services.

Correct.

[RogueLeader]

Sorry. I forgot the  ,  ,or  :angel:

My bad . . . . 

[PHall]

I think he's assuming that, as a Senior Member, CAP NCO (SSgt I believe), he would not be able to use the AF velcro rank tab, thus requiring he use the pin-on version of SSgt rank.

Oh, I see. That just didn't register when I was reading it.

I'd just use the AF velcro one.

If in the same position, so would I. I'd probably advocate it too, until such time as Vanguard made CAP specific ones available.

Considering that Congress is now getting involved in the "unified uniforms" issue, I wouldn't be surprised if development on a lot of ABU items for the Air Force or CAP is gonna stall in a year or two. It doesn't serve Vanguard's interests to produce items that would be shortlived.

Anyone taking bets for multicam for all services by 2018???

Only after they blow a whole bunch on money making a digital version of Multicam. We can't be wearing "analog" uniforms!

[Stonewall]

I've got one and sewed sage/foliage velcro for a my embroidered foliage name tag. I did this before the recent uniform policy change. 

Just saw this and thought I'd share a pic of my unofficial AF fleece.

Since we are authorized to wear this as an outer garment, I think an embroidered name tag is in order...

[Hawk200]

Since we are authorized to wear this as an outer garment, I think an embroidered name tag is in order...

Doesn't look too bad. (As long as you pull off the right side Velcro  )

[flyguy06]

I've got one and sewed sage/foliage velcro for a my embroidered foliage name tag. I did this before the recent uniform policy change.  I just can't believe we can wear it without ID/rank.

My wife just got issued hers too, but no velcro.  She also got the new ABU gore-tex, which costs like $250.  The crappy thing is that you are required to wear your ABU blouse under the fleece.

The Army has had them for a while.

[Stonewall]

Since we are authorized to wear this as an outer garment, I think an embroidered name tag is in order...

Doesn't look too bad. (As long as you pull off the right side Velcro  )

Yeah, but I'm going to have to take off my flight suit name tag velcro and sew on name tape size so I can wear it legally.