New Senior Member - Rank Question

[Smoothice]

Hi,
New senior member here (yay!)

I had a question on what rank I would actually be awarded right away givin my qualifications. I just signed up, still waiting for my ID card! I have been told that as a senior member with a valid FAA Private Pilot ticket, I would right away be placed as a Second LT after going through all the level 1 stuff. I was told I did not have to wait the 6 months. Does this sound accurate??

Also, how long does it typically take from when you send your check, to getting your ID/New Member kit...its been almost 2 weeks...

thanks!

[Bluelakes 13]

The answer to the question you ask lies in CAPR 35-5. 

The best way to find answers to basic questions like these is to go to the Knowledgebase for the pointer to the relavent regulation. 

http://capnhq.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/capnhq.cfg/php/enduser/std_alp.php

Note, answers from this board or from the Knowledge iteself can be subjective.  Only the regulation rules... sort of.

Some important items from 35-5:

"Mission related skills, professional appointments, and special appointment promotions must be requested by submitting a CAPF 2."  Meaning it's not automatic nor "right away". 

Then section 4-3 is crucial "4-3. Initial Grades. Members in this category will be enrolled initially as senior members without grade. However, immediately upon completion of Level I, the unit commander may recommend the member for appointment to a grade commensurate with his or her special skill..."

Note, the unit commander _MAY_ recommend the higher grade.  Again,  hot automatic nor quick.

Welcome and have fun!

[Eclipse]

The key here is that you may be eligible, nothing is automatic.

As an example, if the reasoning for advanced promotion would be as a pilot, many CC's will wait until you have completed Level 1, a Form 5, and perhaps even flown some sorties before considering the promotion.

[capchiro]

On the other hand, they may be glad to have a pilot on board and hand you the promotion as soon as Level 1 is complete..  The Regs allow the commanders to have a say in their command (within limits, of course).. 

[Smoothice]

yes, I seem to recall that my commander mentioned something like "it won't take long"

[IceNine]

No matter how soon (or not) you get your promotion remain calm and patient.

Learn everything you can about the organization and learn how you can be an asset.

Good luck and welcome

[RiverAux]

I wouldn't freak out about the new member paperwork for another few weeks.  You can always ask your commander to look in e-services to see if you've shown up there, which would indicate things are on track. 

[Eclipse]

As a general rule it takes 6 months to 1 year before a member is an asset to CAP.  YMMV, but it generally takes that long to get a good understanding of what CAP does (and doesn't do), how we do it, and to complete you base-level of training.

I would suggest taking advantage of any PD opportunities you can, especially an SLS.

[RiverAux]

PD= Professional Development
SLS=Squadron Leadership School

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

Nothing in CAP is automatic, except "Come And Pay."

Just listen and learn.  You'll get your butter-bars soon enough.

Others may disagree, but over 15+ years off-and-on in CAP, I've found that rank is really secondary to how you do your job.  I've seen field grade officers where I wonder how they got it, and Senior Members Without Grade who are good-to-go attitudinally from Day One.

[Eclipse]

...I've found that rank is really secondary to how you do your job.  I've seen field grade officers where I wonder how they got it, and Senior Members Without Grade who are good-to-go attitudinally from Day One.

I'd agree with that, however there is also the flip side - new members way too worried about grade walking in the door, or experienced members who are unnaturally disinterested.

Either is a problem in my opinion.

[capchiro]

I think part of the problem is that a lot of new members think that rank means something like in the real military.  On the other hand some very experienced members realize rank has very little to do with the mission or how they contribute and they may actually see rank as being counter-productive and in effect boycott rank seeking to further their own point.  I can see and appreciate both sides as CAP walks like a duck, talks like a duck, but is in fact it's own strange and wonderful creature and it is our creature. As usual, jmho..

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

The only real issue I have with CAP rank is the one that's got us in trouble with the actual military from time-to-time: trolling for salutes that we are not entitled to.

I cringe when I see a CAP officer expecting a salute from a member of the Armed Forces and then griping about it later.

I haven't yet seen the even more boneheaded issue of a CAP officer attempting to dress down a military member for not saluting...regardless of rank, if I did, I'd probably adjust the attitude of said CAP member for making fools of us.  I hope I never see that.

[RiverAux]

I think the few times this has occurred have been magnified way out of proportion by being constantly brought up here. 

I have been in CAP as a senior member for over a decade and have yet to have any first hand knowledge of any CAP member going salute trolling.  In fact, the far bigger problem is senior members going out of the way to avoid being put in a situation where they might have to return a salute either from a CAP cadet or someone in the military. 

I have second-hand knowledge of only 1 incident where a CAP member tried to "pull rank" on someone in the military. 

I have yet to hear of any senior member griping about not being saluted by somebody, whether CAP or military. 

[Rotorhead]

The only real issue I have with CAP rank is the one that's got us in trouble with the actual military from time-to-time: trolling for salutes that we are not entitled to.

I cringe when I see a CAP officer expecting a salute from a member of the Armed Forces and then griping about it later.

Do you see that? I have yet to experience that.

[Rotorhead]

Nothing in CAP is automatic, except "Come And Pay."

Confusion And Paperwork.

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

The only real issue I have with CAP rank is the one that's got us in trouble with the actual military from time-to-time: trolling for salutes that we are not entitled to.

I cringe when I see a CAP officer expecting a salute from a member of the Armed Forces and then griping about it later.

Do you see that? I have yet to experience that.

I don't think it's been an issue for quite a while, that I've personally heard of.  I wonder if the berry boards took care of that...   Very occasionally I've heard someone grumble a bit, like "I'm an officer and rate a salute," but usually said grumbler is corrected.

However, I have seen a few slightly bemused looks on a few AF officers when I have given them my best salute and greeting, like "who's this guy with the grey shoulder slides?"  I usually put that down to just not being aware of CAP; I'm not sure how well we're known throughout the AF these days.

But a few times I've got a handshake and an "attaboy" from AF personnel.  That's better, to me, than a hand salute.

[Eclipse]

The correct statement should be "I'm a volunteer and appreciate a salute...".  No one in CAP should expect salutes from anyone in the military, and certainly never, ever, dress anyone down about it.

But the mere fact that we're standing on that base, in uniform, doing something for our country or community, most likely on our own nickel, ought to be worth the effort of a salute, if for no other reason than as a "thank you"...


Its not that big of a deal, regardless.

Really.

[Cowanthunder]

I agree.  My brother is in the Marines.  The ones getting shot at, crawling in trenches and having people trying to shoot them down deserve at least a salute.  Even if I don't get one back I still feel a sense of recognition.

When I visit my brother on the Marine base and I'm in street clothes I usually don't get a salute but almost always a nod or other gesture.  It lets them know I recognize them for what they stand for and they appreciate me noticing that.

I feel the CAP just takes care of the things that the Military doesn't have the time to address, especially in conflicting times like today.  It gives civilians that aren't able to join the military a chance to feel like a part of something too. Everyone wants acceptance but the members of the armed forces truly deserve credit for what they do.

If you don't always feel like you have to be in the spotlight then you won't need a salute. You are recognized by the people who matter for what you do. 

[Thrashed]

When I was in high school, I visited my older brother in the USAFA.  I slept in the dorms, attended class, etc.  All the cadets called me "sir" and saluted me.  I was a high school kid in civilian cloths!  I'll never forget that.  Humility and respect should be shown always by all.