BDU Sock Color

[IceNine]

So choose another reg that doesn't insult specifically pilots but is just as important and the issue sticks.

"I sent in my CAP D/L form, I didn't think it was a problem to drive without it in my possession."

"No one told me I couldn't council cadets one on one, I never had a discussion because my commander didn't have time, and I was watching The Office as I clicked through the slides."

We are talking about attention to detail, compliance with those details, and cultivating and environment where there is no option but to comply with all of the rules or accept appropriate consequences.

[Major Carrales]

So choose another reg that doesn't insult specifically pilots but is just as important and the issue sticks.

"I sent in my CAP D/L form, I didn't think it was a problem to drive without it in my possession."

"No one told me I couldn't council cadets one on one, I never had a discussion because my commander didn't have time, and I was watching The Office as I clicked through the slides."

We are talking about attention to detail, compliance with those details, and cultivating and environment where there is no option but to comply with all of the rules or accept appropriate consequences.

My point is that the regs have to me equal as documents, policy and quality from the day they are published.  If you want that attention to detail to come from those in the field, then the reg writers and National leaders have to insure the regs are worthy of the attention of the membership.

If CAPM 39-1 and CAPR 60 Series are to be given the "gospel" like following you mention...then they must be treated alike by National.  Thus, changes need to be codified in more than a string of letters or mentions at the National Board.

Until then, you will have a hard time convincing people that what color the  socks a cadet wears are as important as aircraft maintenance.

[IceNine]

So choose another reg that doesn't insult specifically pilots but is just as important and the issue sticks.

"I sent in my CAP D/L form, I didn't think it was a problem to drive without it in my possession."

"No one told me I couldn't council cadets one on one, I never had a discussion because my commander didn't have time, and I was watching The Office as I clicked through the slides."

We are talking about attention to detail, compliance with those details, and cultivating and environment where there is no option but to comply with all of the rules or accept appropriate consequences.

My point is that the regs have to me equal as documents, policy and quality from the day they are published.  If you want that attention to detail to come from those in the field, then the reg writers and National leaders have to insure the regs are worthy of the attention of the membership.

If CAPM 39-1 and CAPR 60 Series are to be given the "gospel" like following you mention...then they must be treated alike by National.  Thus, changes need to be codified in more than a string of letters or mentions at the National Board.

Until then, you will have a hard time convincing people that what color the  socks a cadet wears are as important as aircraft maintenance.

I don't need to wait for NHQ, I have all the authority I need to enforce these things in my AOR.

While the corrective actions for these offenses are wildly different it doesn't change the fact that they need to be addressed, and as with all corrective action "At the lowest possible echelon" is the best course.

[Pumbaa]

I am going to have undergarment inspection for all hot senior female members.. The 39-1 says under garments need to be appropriate.  Need to make sure they are wearing the right color Victoria Secret bra and panty's!

This forum is a joke!  How about talking about something of real importance, rather than wasting bandwidth on this drivel.

How about the lack of leadership and standard business processes from HQ?

From the CAP HQ website publication list

M39-1    23 Mar 05    CAP Uniform Manual (4.5 M)

It is going on 4.5 years since this publication has been updated.  How many changes have we had since then?  How many interim letters of change do we have to sift through?

If it was so important you would think it would be updated!  Yet we have to contend with a litany of interim change orders.  Based on the definition of interim, even those have expired.

In this day and age of electronic documentation you would think a multi million dollar organization would update their publications for their members.

You want to know why CAP is viewed as a joke?

You've got a very public CAP forum debating sock color... and CAP national can't even update their publications in a timely manner.  It is the simple processes that makes this organization look bad. 

I will wear my polo untucked, I will wear whatever color sock I feel is comfortable.  Heck I'll wear my flight suit while having a goatee..

[davidsinn]

You want to know why CAP is viewed as a joke?

I will wear my polo untucked, I will wear whatever color sock I feel is comfortable.  Heck I'll wear my flight suit while having a goatee..

You answered your own question.

[jimmydeanno]

"No one told me I couldn't council cadets one on one, I never had a discussion because my commander didn't have time, and I was watching The Office as I clicked through the slides."

That's because that rule doesn't exist.  So nobody would have told you that...

[heliodoc]

AND page 3 for the joke of sock color

Pumbaa is on target.......CAP has really got to get MORE serious and the member more serious than sock wear

[arajca]

There are times when you need these light discussions.

[Eclipse]

AND page 3 for the joke of sock color

Pumbaa is on target.......CAP has really got to get MORE serious and the member more serious than sock wear

Ahh!  Now I understand the confusion.

CAPTalk is not CAP - you guys have been thinking that this is CAP.  Nothing that happens here remotely reflects the views, opinions, or official inclinations of NHQ.

Insinuating that it does probably means you should spend some more time reading your AOL "Getting Started" manual.

[Hawk200]

AND page 3 for the joke of sock color

Pumbaa is on target.......CAP has really got to get MORE serious and the member more serious than sock wear

The issue is not the color of socks. If you think that's the actual issue, then you lack the intelligence to be a member.

Now how many people know what the actual issue is? How many don't, even though there are numerous posts on the legitimate issue?

I know Gunner's got the guts to hold people accountable, who else does? Who else has the guts or the integrity to do the right thing, and own up to it instead of blowing it off?

[heliodoc]

ReallyY  it's not the color of the socks?

WOW I thought it was.  To analyze as a a legitimate issue, great.

Now back to real serious CAP discussion....4 pages on socks??

Gunner's not the only one with guts...there are more out there

But there are FAAARRR more serious issues in CAP than to worry about the color of someone's socks when they are wearing boots.  It OUGHT to take MORE guts for a CAP NHQ to put together a 39-1 on the same level as AR 670-1 or the AF series

But in all reality, this is CAP..... the home of the ICL and a 39-1 that needs a serious updating with more guts and INTEGRITY and TIMELINESS to get this one accomplished.

Oh wait, didn't they have a  Natl Board meeting this week and was a 39-1 update ever talked about

If it was.... it was glossed over I am sure

[Major Carrales]

Oh...you noticed the part where boots are worn over the socks completely obscuring them and making the socks a basically moot issue.

Seriously people, I think this issue is way past resolution and to the point of absurdity.  Just tell the cadet to get new socks or buy the cadet a pair and move on.

[heliodoc]

heh heh heh he said absurdity........

[IceNine]

"No one told me I couldn't council cadets one on one, I never had a discussion because my commander didn't have time, and I was watching The Office as I clicked through the slides."

That's because that rule doesn't exist.  So nobody would have told you that...

CAP members are expected to avoid even the appearance of impropriety involving cadets and report suspected abuse immediately.

d. Ensure that at least two "approved" senior members are present at all overnight cadet activities. Encourage at least two senior members to be present at all cadet activities (with the exception of chaplain counseling or cadet orientation flights). This policy is for the protection of the senior members as well as the cadets.

Those 2 statements when combined makes a minimum of 3 the rule not the exception.

In this case "encourage" equals "shall" at least in my view of avoiding appearance of impropriety.

But this is not the discussion.

[Nick]

Right.  How did a 3-page thread on sock color (black or white (preferably not visible for the latter), by the way -- that took 3-pages to debate?) turn into a CPP interpretation?

[IceNine]

People challenge examples here.

Everything is open to scrutiny, wheter topic related or not.

[Nick]

People challenge examples here.

Everything is open to scrutiny, wheter topic related or not.

Ehhh ... yeah, I know people challenge examples here (sometimes to well beyond the extent reasonable and necessary).  I also know everything is open to scrutiny (especially around this place) ... and Mike/the other Mike/Jerry/Dan/etc., correct me if I'm seriously off-base here, but in the interest of maintaining substantive content in posts and not reading 5+ pages of inconsequental crap unrelated to a topic, aren't we all best served by keeping to the point of the topic and splitting off to a new topic when the conversation is obviously going that way?  Although that's been the intent ever since I've been here, people don't actually bother to do it.  Like I'm doing right now.  See what I mean?

[MIKE]

We'll just do this.