Model Rocketry

[BTCS1 C/CC]

Share your ideas about the cadet model rocketry program. List the names of the Rockets you used and whether the launched were a success or failure.

[AlphaSigOU]

I've built and flown the Estes Mercury Redstone several times. The original was made by Centuri (Estes had a smaller model which was retired after Estes bought Centuri). The fins were originally balsa and made deliberately oversize (by about 25%) for easier flying. The current model uses plastic molded fins, oversize as well. Early Redstone kits used water-slide decals; the current one uses self-adhesive wraps.

The Mercury capsule is correct for Freedom 7 and earlier unmanned or 'chimp-o-naut' flights with the porthole window. If you want to build Grissom's Liberty Bell 7 you'll have to do some major surgery to add the picture window. (And change the 'round' number on the Redstone to read 'MR-3'. Shepard's was MR-7.) The capsule mould is showing its age and needs work to get the sections to fit.

You can fly the Redstone with scale fins but they are small and will cause the model to fly marginally stable unless one adds noseweight to bring the flight model to balance properly on its center of gravity (CG). Even then, it could weathercock in all but calm conditions. Fine details such as antennas and hatches are not included or are printed on the decals.

Scale is very nearly 1/35 (70" body diameter of the full size Redstone / model body tube diameter of 2.04" = 1/34.314 scale).

[arajca]

Estes Alpha III (with the balsa fins). Used recommended first flight engine. Moves FAST. Very stable.

Estes SR-71. One of the cadets flew this one and it really flew - about 100' up, it nosed over and flew straight for a good 500 - 600'. Mostly undamaged after landing.

Estes Starship 1 - same story as SR-71. Weird.

[AlphaSigOU]

You can never go wrong with the Estes Alpha (or its almost ready to fly cousin, the Alpha III). Simple design, excellent performance with a wide range of motors.

Some of the more exotic designs like the SR-71 have been tinkered with to fly stable, but they'll weathercock in the slightest breeze.

Not surprisingly, sounding rockets make the most stable of scale model rockets. Estes makes a higher powered 1/5 scale D-Region Tomahawk that will fly up to an E motor out of the bag. Much of the detail work has already been done for you - molded plastic fins and faceted fin can, as well as a nose cone with screw details. (I should know - I redrew the plans for this famous sounding rocket back in the early 90s during my CAP hiatus working as the plans editor for the NAR's magazine.  )

[jimmydeanno]

Estes SR-71. One of the cadets flew this one and it really flew - about 100' up, it nosed over and flew straight for a good 500 - 600'. Mostly undamaged after landing.

This was one of the rockets for our rocketry competitition last month.  Of the 10 that were built, I can't think of a single one that flew correctly.  We were using the A-8 engines, maybe it needs a little more "push" to fly as intended.

[AlphaSigOU]

Estes SR-71. One of the cadets flew this one and it really flew - about 100' up, it nosed over and flew straight for a good 500 - 600'. Mostly undamaged after landing.

This was one of the rockets for our rocketry competitition last month.  Of the 10 that were built, I can't think of a single one that flew correctly.  We were using the A-8 engines, maybe it needs a little more "push" to fly as intended.

A8-3 is a 'popgun' flight for this kit; you're better off flying it with a B6-4 or C6-5

[BTCS1*]

Personaly i think an alpha with a B6-4 is ALWAYS reliable! Now C/SSgt. W knows my rocketry sucesses and failures. Such as Misfire XII

[jeancalvinus]

I have a highly motivated Cadet who wants to teach the rocketry classes to our cadets before the summer is through. It seems this can only happen if everything is directly supervised by a senior member. Do I read the regs correctly on this? Or am I wrong: he cannot teach at all, it must all be done by a senior member?

Second question is, can the program be completed on 2 consecutive weekends? Or is this rushing things WAAAAY too much? There seems to be a lot of time that needs to go into building these rockets, so it seems 4 weekends would do it. problem is, I want to get as many cadets throuhg this as we can, and a 4 week commitment might be a trecth for most of them.

Any thoughts on this would be appreciated.

jean

[arajca]

As a CAP activity, it must be supervised by a senior member. That does not mean that a cadet cannot teach the material.

If you're only doing construction at the activity, two weeks is pushing it. If you let the cadet take the rockets home to work on, two weeks should be fine.

[DC]

Any activity must be supervised by a CAP SM, but there is no reason a cadet cannot teach rocketry or any other relevant subject they are knowledgeable about and/or qualified to teach. In fact if cadets are not doing the majority of the teaching then there is an issue, learning public speaking and how to give both formal and informal instruction are a large part of the leadership training cadets should receive in the Cadet Program.

I have a schedule for a one weekend bivouac that would see 15 cadets through the entire model rocketry program. It's a tight, hectic schedule, but it would get the job done. I'd be happy to email it to you if you would like.

[jeancalvinus]

Thanks for the info. We are starting this week with the intro and the redstone lecture.

In reviewing this last night I noticed that the second rocket for the titan phase is:

"The cadet can opt to build a scale model of an actual rocket that was a
significant part of aerospace history."

Any low cost ideas on this one?

[davidsinn]

Thanks for the info. We are starting this week with the intro and the redstone lecture.

In reviewing this last night I noticed that the second rocket for the titan phase is:

"The cadet can opt to build a scale model of an actual rocket that was a
significant part of aerospace history."

Any low cost ideas on this one?

Depends on your idea of low cost. Dr. Zooch makes wonderful scale models of famous and not so famous rockets for 22-25 dollars. That's about the cheapest that I can find and accounts for all of the fee I need to charge my cadets because my grant doesn't cover everything. I own but have not built the Saturn V and it is a really nice kit. If you have one copy of a kit it wouldn't be impossible to replicate it for little money if you know what you are doing.

[jeancalvinus]

Thanks for the feedback. I was able to find a cheap version of the Patriot missile for under $10. That covers that stage!

IN THE MEANTIME: any recommendations for where to find heavy duty durable rubber bands? I have looked at Home Depot, Target, Walmart, hardware stores, packaging stores and haven't been able to find any. This is of course for the Goddard rocket (which we will be building this Thursday at the squadron meeting)  we have built some test models and cannot find any thick sturdy rubber bands. We are getting 40 ft of flight (elevation) out of those, but I think we can get more distance out of the heavier rubber bands.

ANY IDEAS?

[DC]

Thanks for the feedback. I was able to find a cheap version of the Patriot missile for under $10. That covers that stage!

IN THE MEANTIME: any recommendations for where to find heavy duty durable rubber bands? I have looked at Home Depot, Target, Walmart, hardware stores, packaging stores and haven't been able to find any. This is of course for the Goddard rocket (which we will be building this Thursday at the squadron meeting)  we have built some test models and cannot find any thick sturdy rubber bands. We are getting 40 ft of flight (elevation) out of those, but I think we can get more distance out of the heavier rubber bands.

ANY IDEAS?

The Rocketry Textbook recommends using #64 rubber bands, which you can get just about anywhere, and they work pretty well.

If you haven't been able to find those, or simply do want something bigger, have you tried an office supply store like Staples, Office Max or Office Depot?

[Airrace]

First of all any activity must be supervised by a Civil Air Patrol (CAP)Senior Member (SM), but there is no reason a cadet cannot teach rocketry. I recomend that a cadet teachs the rocketry class or or any other relevant subject that they are knowledgeable about and/or qualified to teach. This helps build leadership and public speaking and will incourage other cadets to teach other classes as well.

We have in the past scheduled a weekend training class that would see 10 -15 cadets through the entire model rocketry program. They spend a weekend at our local Coast Guard station. The training and building of the rockets take place on Saturday. They build three different rockets and on Sunday they get the chance to see their rockets blast off.  We invite their family and freinds to attend the Sunday blast off event.

Good Luck!

[NC Hokie]

Thanks for the feedback. I was able to find a cheap version of the Patriot missile for under $10. That covers that stage!

Where?  Inquiring minds want to know.

[Spike]

May I ask....how long the entire program took (from cover to cover) to complete, and hand out the model rocketry patches??

We are starting the program in a few months and dedicating 1.5-2 hours per month.  Should I spend less time or more time on it??

[DC]

May I ask....how long the entire program took (from cover to cover) to complete, and hand out the model rocketry patches??

We are starting the program in a few months and dedicating 1.5-2 hours per month.  Should I spend less time or more time on it??

If I were you I'd spend a little more time on it, at that rate it'll probably take you a good 3 - 4 months to finish.

I don't think I could keep my cadets interested for that long...

[Rob Sherlin]

I don't know how far along you are with rocketry. But, I think you should contact some of the big companies, and tell them you are in CAP and are looking for deals for the cadets. I've been communicating with Apogee, and Estes, vendors on supplies for building rockets from scratch, reusable rocket engines and such. It is cutting down the cost for my plans a lot! I have several big rockets (at least 60", and multi staged), and when the cadets (or anyone) launch those rockets, it get's them further interested. It takes some research and time, but you can put together a good rocketry program that adds to what CAP has, at less cost. I suggest to write them a letter, introduce yourself, and tell them what you are trying to do...They love organizations like CAP, and are willing to help.

[Airrace]

If your looking to purchase rockets I like the Estes Alpha II or III. This is a easy design and build process and gives the cadets alot of enjoyment when they get to see it fly.