kilts at special events

Rob Sherlin · April 07, 2009, 02:22:49 PM

The Scots aren't the only ones who wear kilts, as there are Irish, and Welsh tartans too. From what I am seeing, you CAN probably wear one with the Mess uniform and not break CAPM 39-1 regs, if you just take off the boullion, shoulder boards and such, that affiliate the uniform with CAP. I don't know about wearing the uniforms to milatary or CAP events other than having permission to (people say it's not allowed, but how do you explain the photos of people wearing kilts (who are not in the "band") at military events.
It does look good with the mess uniform, and if you have one, it beats going and spending another $300 and up on a "Prince Charlie" or"Argyle" jacket.

D2SK · April 07, 2009, 02:47:41 PM

Quote from: Rob Sherlin on April 07, 2009, 02:22:49 PM
It does look good with the mess uniform, and if you have one, it beats going and spending another $300 and up on a "Prince Charlie" or"Argyle" jacket.

If you are going to wear a plaid skirt, you might as well go all out and get the matching jacket so you'll have the complete outfit.

Rob Sherlin · April 07, 2009, 06:45:02 PM

It's not a SKIRT!!!!! Come to the "Highland Games" and make and comment like that, and you might be tossed like the "caper". It's just not right to keep insulting the "wearing of kilts", or "the honor of" like that! And whether you like it or not, it has been part of every military branch, every state (even a lot of counties have their own tartan), and has, and is still worn by a lot of great men. To those of us who are proud to wear them, and what it means, it's very offensive!
It's like calling you a "Nazi", or "Kraut" because of your heritage! It just so happens there has been a lot of dedication, and "spilling of blood" for America, by people who wear kilts (in battle yet), and were some of the toughest SOB's you would ever want to encounter! A lot of organizations in America recognize this and adapted to it (Scottish, Irish, Welsh, or not), and wear them (not only military, but state and local police, etc.)
So, please, don't call them skirts! Don't call them dresses! Be respectful!!!

D2SK · April 07, 2009, 07:25:47 PM

Quote from: Rob Sherlin on April 07, 2009, 06:45:02 PM
It's not a SKIRT!!!!! So, please, don't call them skirts! Don't call them dresses! Be respectful!!!

Rob,

http://wordnetweb.princeton.edu/perl/webwn?s=kilt

According to Princeton University, it is a skirt.

(n) kilt (a knee-length pleated tartan skirt worn by men as part of the traditional dress in the Highlands of northern Scotland)

And, for what it's worth, calling a a skirt-like garment as skirt is not akin to calling a person of German descent a nazi. One is a racial epitaph, the other is not.

However, with that being said, some of my German ancestors were, regrettably, nazis. That being said, I'm not complaining or even the least bit offended every time the term "uniform nazi" is thrown out around here.

Rob Sherlin · April 07, 2009, 07:32:25 PM

Never the less where you got your info......Trust me!....It's dissrespectful!!!!!

I don't care what Princeton University calls it!!!

Being called "Nazi" is the same thing!!! It was a matter of honor, choice, and wearing the uniform! Just because you're German, doesn't make you a "Nazi", and if you take offense of being called one, than you somewhat know how it feels! At that time, it was what you believed in, joined, and honored that made you so ! It's the same thing with kilts, and even people who are not from a "kilt wearing" heritage are pround to wear them for what their organization is and stands for!

Look! All I'm asking is that you call them "kilts", instead of skirts, dresses, etc!

Major Lord · April 07, 2009, 07:59:55 PM

I think anyone trying to prevent us from wearing our kilts with Mess Dress is anti-Celtic racist, intent on undermining our Druidic way of life. The warrior tradition of the Scots has won for us the eternal rights to wear the kilt in the same way as Orthodox Jews have a right to wear the Yarmulkha. (Besides, sometimes an an Officer just wants to feel...pretty! ) Oh yeah, the chicks dig it! If you want to insult a Scot to his face over wearing a kilt, be prepared to have a yard of Cleighmore thrust through your entrails, a Skein Dugh up your nose, or a Caber tossed in your general direction. ( Powerful, but not accurate) The Kilt is a representation of his entire family lineage, and its much worse than insulting someones mother.

Major Lord
Of the Clanranald

D2SK · April 07, 2009, 08:09:48 PM

Quote from: Rob Sherlin on April 07, 2009, 07:32:25 PM
Never the less where you got your info......Trust me!....It's dissrespectful!!!!!

I don't care what Princeton University calls it!!!

Being called "Nazi" is the same thing!!! It was a matter of honor, choice, and wearing the uniform! Just because you're German, doesn't make you a "Nazi", and if you take offense of being called one, than you somewhat know how it feels! At that time, it was what you believed in, joined, and honored that made you so ! It's the same thing with kilts, and even people who are not from a "kilt wearing" heritage are pround to wear them for what their organization is and stands for!

Look! All I'm asking is that you call them "kilts", instead of skirts, dresses, etc!

Rob. "Our" organization doesn't authorize kilts for wear with the CAP uniform. Our organization has never authorized one, nor has it ever been associated with one, etc. Therefore, please don't try to find a way around the rules to wear one with your CAP uniform. Please don't get your ~~skirt~~ kilt up in a bunch over this.

Rob Sherlin · April 07, 2009, 08:15:28 PM

Major Lord.....

Indeed the ladies love them!!! I think there's just a big uneducated response about kilts, Celtic pride, the influence and effort our ancestors put into wars for freedom, the accomplishments, and the many other things which made a lot of American organizations recognize the wearing of the kilt, and adapt it as an honor to wear them. I could go a lot deeper into Celtic history, but I want to stay focused on the kilt for the post.

Rob Sherlin · April 07, 2009, 08:23:30 PM

D2SK

Yes, I know this (your last post), and I would not wear a kilt with a CAP uniform (If I take everything off the mess dress that associates me with CAP (much like wearing woodland camo pants, a black t-shirt, and boots) then there should be no problem). The original post was to find out who has worn them in a CAP or military wedding or special function. Maybe we should try to press for a CAP tartan if believed in.
Maybe we can make special liederhosen for you!

notaNCO forever · April 07, 2009, 08:27:08 PM

I really don't think it is worth all the effort to get a kilt, or tartan, authorized for wear for a total of probably five people in the entire organization to be able to wear them.

isuhawkeye · April 07, 2009, 08:28:42 PM

don't forget to remove the buttons. they are specific

Hawk200 · April 07, 2009, 08:29:41 PM

Quote from: Rob Sherlin on April 07, 2009, 08:23:30 PM
D2SK

Yes, I know this (your last post), and I would not wear a kilt with a CAP uniform (If I take everything off the mess dress that associates me with CAP (much like wearing woodland camo pants, a black t-shirt, and boots) then there should be no problem). The original post was to find out who has worn them in a CAP or military wedding or special function. Maybe we should try to press for a CAP tartan if believed in.
Maybe we can make special liederhosen for you!

Rob, it's time to add D2SK to your ignore list. It's obvious that he's attempting to be inflammatory. Ignore it, and address the original post.

ColonelJack · April 07, 2009, 08:35:06 PM

Quote from: D2SK on April 07, 2009, 07:25:47 PM
And, for what it's worth, calling a a skirt-like garment as skirt is not akin to calling a person of German descent a nazi. One is a racial epitaph, the other is not.

Epithet, not epitaph. (Though in some circles, using the epithet could get you an epitaph.)

Quote
However, with that being said, some of my German ancestors were, regrettably, nazis. That being said, I'm not complaining or even the least bit offended every time the term "uniform nazi" is thrown out around here.

Same here on both counts. In fact, a distant cousin was one of the biggest of the Nazis (in more ways than one). The term doesn't bother me either.

Jack

Rob Sherlin · April 07, 2009, 08:38:22 PM

Hawk and NCO,

Agreed!...Thanks for leveling me out and putting me back on track guys!

Cecil DP · April 07, 2009, 09:08:48 PM

I recall when I moved back to Massachusetts in the early 80's the Broctkon Cadet Squadron had a Bagpipe band which marched in CAP uniforms with Kilts. Even the future Wing Commander wa a member of it.

Earhart1971 · April 07, 2009, 09:47:01 PM

Quote from: Hawk200 on April 05, 2009, 11:11:55 PM
Quote from: Rob Sherlin on April 05, 2009, 09:52:35 PM..., or the Air Force tartan since it's basically an Air Force Mess uniform?

There is no Air Force Mess uniform that includes a kilt. One of the Air Force bands wears a uniform that includes a kilt and is very fancy, but it is not a uniform that everyone in the Air Force can wear.

There's no paralell to draw with Civil Air Patrol. We don't even have an official band.

Bagpipe Band you bypass 39-1, The Air Force would probably be proud to have another Bagpipe Band to call on.
You can do anything if you look and sound good. You could even attend the Edinbourgh Tatoo if you are good enought. CAP Band with a great Drum Major in the Bearskin, would really be an asset to the National Program.

Rob Sherlin · April 07, 2009, 09:51:12 PM

Now that sounds like a plan!!! Who else here plays the pipes? Or drum?

Hawk200 · April 07, 2009, 09:53:04 PM

Quote from: Earhart1971 on April 07, 2009, 09:47:01 PM
Quote from: Hawk200 on April 05, 2009, 11:11:55 PM
Quote from: Rob Sherlin on April 05, 2009, 09:52:35 PM..., or the Air Force tartan since it's basically an Air Force Mess uniform?

There is no Air Force Mess uniform that includes a kilt. One of the Air Force bands wears a uniform that includes a kilt and is very fancy, but it is not a uniform that everyone in the Air Force can wear.

There's no paralell to draw with Civil Air Patrol. We don't even have an official band.

Bagpipe Band you bypass 39-1, The Air Force would probably be proud to have another Bagpipe Band to call on.
You can do anything if you look and sound good. You could even attend the Edinbourgh Tatoo if you are good enought. CAP Band with a great Drum Major in the Bearskin, would really be an asset to the National Program.

I disagree on "bypassing" 39-1. That kind of thought doesn't have any place here. What would need to be done is either a manual specific to the band that includes special uniforms, or a supplement to 39-1 covering the Band uniform only.

I agree that it would be cool to have CAP represented by a pipe band. But it needs to be done the right way.

Rob Sherlin · April 07, 2009, 10:04:23 PM

Good point!.....Members allready have a problem with uniforms and equipment as it is, as cost goes. Plus, a set of pipes is going to cost you quite a bit (more than a dress uniform). Unless a local unit is formed, and willing to travel Nationaly, I don't think it's going to happen........But it would be cool to have a CAP tartan (kilt), considering what CAP has done in the past.