kilts at special events

Rob Sherlin · April 05, 2009, 09:52:35 PM

39-1 doesn't say anything about it, but has anyone worn a kilt to a special event (like a wedding) with a mess dress uniform? If so, did you wear a regular tartan, or the Air Force tartan since it's basically an Air Force Mess uniform?

RiverAux · April 05, 2009, 10:37:34 PM

39-1 doesn't have to say that you can't wear a kilt. If it isn't listed as a uniform, it doesn't exist as far as CAP is concerned. It doesn't prohibit wearing a suit of armor either.

PHall · April 05, 2009, 10:42:57 PM

I refer you to Paragraph 1-1 of CAPM 39-1.

Short version, if it's not in the reg, you can't wear it.

Pylon · April 05, 2009, 10:45:02 PM

As above, per Paragraph 1-1 of CAPM 39-1, the manual is exclusionary in nature. In other words, the manual must explicitly list and authorize something for wear with the uniform otherwise it cannot be worn. If this were not the case, 39-1 would have to create an endless list of prohibited items from pink beanies and crocs to squadron smoking jackets and monocles.

So in other words, never acceptable. What would be acceptable would be wearing your kilt and whatever civilian attire that goes with it, along with a Civil Air Patrol lapel pin.

Hawk200 · April 05, 2009, 11:11:55 PM

Quote from: Rob Sherlin on April 05, 2009, 09:52:35 PM..., or the Air Force tartan since it's basically an Air Force Mess uniform?

There is no Air Force Mess uniform that includes a kilt. One of the Air Force bands wears a uniform that includes a kilt and is very fancy, but it is not a uniform that everyone in the Air Force can wear.

There's no paralell to draw with Civil Air Patrol. We don't even have an official band.

isuhawkeye · April 06, 2009, 12:35:40 AM

I wear a kilt quite regularly. I wore one at my wedding.

I have never considered doing a mix and match quasi air force uniform

The prince charlie jacket looks great, and many wear ribbons, and medals on that jacket

Rob Sherlin · April 06, 2009, 12:35:54 AM

Was just a curiosity because a member I met said he did so at a wedding. The Air Force DOES have a tartan (a unique kilt pattern)! Other than wearing it with a dress uniform or something, I don't know when the kilts used.

PS...The mess dress jacket would look good with a kilt.........Wish CAP had it's own tartan!

SarDragon · April 06, 2009, 01:18:57 AM

I have seen a kilt with the AF tartan worn twice on formal occasions - once at a civilian event, and the other at a CAP event. Both looked really great, and I certainly wasn't going to be the party-pooper telling someone they weren't supposed to be wearing them, particularly at the CAP event. [Lancer knows who I'm talking about.]

ltcmark · April 06, 2009, 01:31:11 AM

Here you go:

PHall · April 06, 2009, 01:31:28 AM

Quote from: Rob Sherlin on April 06, 2009, 12:35:54 AM
Was just a curiosity because a member I met said he did so at a wedding. The Air Force DOES have a tartan (a unique kilt pattern)! Other than wearing it with a dress uniform or something, I don't know when the kilts used.

PS...The mess dress jacket would look good with a kilt.........Wish CAP had it's own tartan!

The tartan you speak of is worn by the Pipe Band of The Band of the Air Force Reserve.

The have special permission from HQ AFRC and HQ USAF to wear the kilt and the accessories that go with it with the Air Force Service Dress Jacket.

They were also the ones who designed and registered the tartan.

Hawk200 · April 06, 2009, 01:41:54 AM

Quote from: PHall on April 06, 2009, 01:31:28 AM
Quote from: Rob Sherlin on April 06, 2009, 12:35:54 AM
Was just a curiosity because a member I met said he did so at a wedding. The Air Force DOES have a tartan (a unique kilt pattern)! Other than wearing it with a dress uniform or something, I don't know when the kilts used.

PS...The mess dress jacket would look good with a kilt.........Wish CAP had it's own tartan!

The tartan you speak of is worn by the Pipe Band of The Band of the Air Force Reserve.

The have special permission from HQ AFRC and HQ USAF to wear the kilt and the accessories that go with it with the Air Force Service Dress Jacket.

They were also the ones who designed and registered the tartan.

I've seen kilts with service dress coats, but I believe the Piper's Band uniform is now completely unique, and doesn't share components with service dress any longer. Only a few of the insignia are Air Force. It's a sharp looking outfit, though.

cap235629 · April 06, 2009, 04:17:12 AM

if one wanted they could design a tartan and send it up the chain of command, and if approved, register it. I will tell you that I am sure that the registering it part will be the easiest.............

D2SK · April 06, 2009, 04:18:35 AM

How cute. Men in skirts. In uniform.

CadetProgramGuy · April 06, 2009, 04:22:20 AM

Quote from: D2SK on April 06, 2009, 04:18:35 AM
How cute. Men in skirts. In uniform.

**Throat Clearing**

Kilts....Men in Kilts.....

Eclipse · April 06, 2009, 04:31:22 AM

http://captalk.net/index.php?topic=5288.msg101366#msg101366

argentip · April 06, 2009, 05:15:46 AM

Quote from: SarDragon on April 06, 2009, 01:18:57 AM
I have seen a kilt with the AF tartan worn twice on formal occasions - once at a civilian event, and the other at a CAP event. Both looked really great, and I certainly wasn't going to be the party-pooper telling someone they weren't supposed to be wearing them, particularly at the CAP event. [Lancer knows who I'm talking about.]

The member you mention has worn his kilt since I have known him. It's now a tradition I guess.

Hawk200 · April 06, 2009, 05:43:14 AM

Quote from: D2SK on April 06, 2009, 04:18:35 AM
How cute. Men in skirts. In uniform.

Are you familiar with the concept of "intolerance"? Make sure you look at the word "intolerant" as well.

Comments like that are inappropriate. If it's not your thing, say so. But don't be bashing a culture you're ignorant of.

Slim · April 06, 2009, 07:08:31 AM

Quote from: argentip on April 06, 2009, 05:15:46 AM
Quote from: SarDragon on April 06, 2009, 01:18:57 AM
I have seen a kilt with the AF tartan worn twice on formal occasions - once at a civilian event, and the other at a CAP event. Both looked really great, and I certainly wasn't going to be the party-pooper telling someone they weren't supposed to be wearing them, particularly at the CAP event. [Lancer knows who I'm talking about.]

The member you mention has worn his kilt since I have known him. It's now a tradition I guess.

I'm not 100% sure if that's an AF tartan, or his family's. Either way, he doesn't wear it with a CAP uniform. In his case, it would constitute civilian attire. Clergy shirt and a dinner jacket with Air Force medals/master aircrew wings (he's a retired SMSgt), which is-I believe-allowed.

He's been doing it the 20 years I've known him, and Pops in drag has become a MIWG/GLR-N tradition.

isuhawkeye · April 06, 2009, 12:27:53 PM

QuoteHow cute. Men in skirts. In uniform.

The kilt has been a military uniform longer than any uniform you wear.

Brave men have worn Kilts into battle for generations. They are hardly skirts, and comments like that just show ignorance

PlaneFlyr · April 06, 2009, 12:45:31 PM

The concept is interesting, but like any other deviation from 39-1, would require appropriate approvals. Run the idea up through your wing commander, so he/she can bring it up at the next National Board meeting. If CAP NB approves it, final approval will still have to be granted by USAF. And most likely, they'd only allow the approved USAF kilt pattern.

Does anybody know if USAF allows people, other than their pipe band, to wear a kilt? If they don't, then we probably won't either.

On a side note - nobody would want to see my pasty white legs in formal attire, especially if there is a meal at the event.