Recruiting Ground Team Members

[cap235629]

We recently decided to try to recruit senior member ground team personnel.  Attached is a flyer I put together to post at various venues in an attempt to accomplish this goal.  Please feel free to modify it for you own use if you would like.

Here is a hint:

Go to an office supply store and buy HP glossy brochure paper for inkjets.
The finished product looks like it was produced in a print shop.

[arajca]

Instead of using the national website, use a unit website with a map on the front page. 

[cap235629]

we do not currently have a unit website......
thanks for the suggestion though!

[RiverAux]

Not bad.  I'd probably not capitilize "CIVILIAN" and would recommend using the wing's web site since you don't have your own. 

By the way, what sorts of places are you putting them?  Getting adults to join specifically for GT work is probably the most difficult task in CAP.  Getting aircrew members and cadets isn't hard if you put the time in, but this is tough. 

[Eclipse]

Did you get permission to use that photograph?

[Murph]

The answer is: no, he did not.

I would be the guy who's half in the photo on the right hand side.

Aside from that fact, I would probably use a photo that is representative of your unit - not mine.

v/r

Scott F. Murphy, 1st Lt, CAP
Commander
Palwaukee Composite Squadron at Chicago Executive Airport
United States Air Force Auxiliary  |  Civil Air Patrol
smurphy@group22.net

"The Air Force auxiliary continues to stand above the rest in its dedication and compassion for others," - Lt. Gen. Carrol H. Chandler, Deputy Chief of Staff Air, Space and Information Operations in Washington, D.C.

[LtCol Hooligan]

What kind of homeland security missions do ground teams do?

Also- not to be nitpicky, but people won't take the time to read the brochure.  It has way too many words on it.  I think you need snazzier pictures and less words in order to recruit people. 

Good luck in your mission- I hope you do well.  We need more ground pounders!!

[PWK-GT]

The answer is: no, he did not.

I would be the guy who's half in the photo on the right hand side.

Aside from that fact, I would probably use a photo that is representative of your unit - not mine.

v/r

Scott F. Murphy, 1st Lt, CAP
Commander
Palwaukee Composite Squadron at Chicago Executive Airport
United States Air Force Auxiliary  |  Civil Air Patrol
smurphy@group22.net

+1 for what Murph said......

Speaking as the big ugly guy on the left, I would have appreciated being consulted regarding the use of this picture as well. I am also curious how you got this photo, unless you're regularly robbing Squadron websites.....

I might also opine that if you don't have any 'action shots' for GTM with your own folks, you might not have a program to sell.

Just my $0.02......

Jim Griggs, Capt., CAP
Deputy Commander / Seniors
Palwaukee Composite Squadron IL049
JGriggs@Group22.net

[RiverAux]

If that photo somehow made it onto the CAP channel photo archives, it would be there and available for use by anyone in CAP.  Just a thought.

[PWK-GT]

...and it would have to be gained with permission, right? None given here.... and this was not circulated.

My point is still valid regarding having a program.......no need to go outside if you have your own people performing.

[RiverAux]

...and it would have to be gained with permission, right? None given here.... and this was not circulated.

Nope.  Here is how NHQ views photo permissions.  Its aimed at those used in news releases, but would apply to this sort of use also:

CAP encourages the release of photos to the media to tell the CAP story. CAP National Headquarters does not require a photo release form to be signed by members who appear in a photo prior to its release to the media if the photo being considered for release was taken in a public setting, e.g., encampment, weekly squadron meeting, etc. The only time a photo release form must be provided is when commercial use of a photo is anticipated, e.g., publication in a book, merchandising, etc. For mission-related photos, PAOs at all levels must consider the sensitivity of the mission and the need to coordinate formal approval for release with the lead agency.

[RADIOMAN015]

I'm not sure a general leaflet broadcasted to the general population is the way the go.  Remember that CAP senior members also have to be involved in some specialty training.  I guess they all could become Assistant ES Officers  (or perhaps a specialty called ES Tactical Officer)  I think you have to be careful when recruiting senior members specifically for any type of emergency services position , because of the potential of wanna be rambo types, some of who may have other "issues" answering that leaflet.   Perhaps approaching hiking type clubs, maybe even sportsman clubs with an information briefing, sort of stressing the ES missions (ground support) might work better.   Bring the "interested" individuals into the squadron for a visit and have various staff members talk with them. 

You also need to be sure that anyone you recruit doesn't have the same type of paid or volunteer job that would activate them on the same type of emergency response.  That could be a challenge in some smaller population areas.
RADIOMAN         

[PWK-GT]

...and it would have to be gained with permission, right? None given here.... and this was not circulated.

Nope.  Here is how NHQ views photo permissions.  Its aimed at those used in news releases, but would apply to this sort of use also:

CAP encourages the release of photos to the media to tell the CAP story. CAP National Headquarters does not require a photo release form to be signed by members who appear in a photo prior to its release to the media if the photo being considered for release was taken in a public setting, e.g., encampment, weekly squadron meeting, etc. The only time a photo release form must be provided is when commercial use of a photo is anticipated, e.g., publication in a book, merchandising, etc. For mission-related photos, PAOs at all levels must consider the sensitivity of the mission and the need to coordinate formal approval for release with the lead agency.

But at the end of the day, we're not talking about anything more than common courtesy. I know their views on submissions and permisisons as a PAO myself. I also disagree with your interpretation of 'they do this here....so it's the same effect here'. CAP NHQ can be assumed to be the 'owner' of all footage in one respect. This photo was not held by NHQ.

Maybe I should make this simple: I'm more interested in the lack of courtesy / ethics involved here. This pic was not culled by National ....but by an individual.

Hardly core values in action here.....

[RiverAux]

This photo was not held by NHQ.

If that is the case, I'm on your side.

[cap235629]

just now had a chance to check back.  This photo was downloaded from NHQ photo archives and as noted above I did not feel that permission was necessary to use the photo and I did not intend to anger anyone.  In my own defense however, there was no information on the NHQ site as to who was in the photo, so how can I contact anyone in the photo?

If you are in this photo and object to it's use, please let me know in a PM and I will take it down.

I searched high and low for a photo that showed senior members performing GT tasks that would convey the image I was looking for, as most of the photo's of GT activity are of cadets, this was difficult.

With regard to the legal aspects of using the photo, it was copied from a public domain, no copywright is attached to the photo and it is not being used for a commercial purpose. As I often tell my children, once it hits the internet, there is nothing private.

Again gentlemen, no harm was intended, and I apologize for any ruffled feathers.

This "poster" is being posted at outdoor stores and recreation centers in the area.  We have an open door policy for anyone who would like to check out a meeting, but we do have "interviews" with prospective members (we should honestly develop a true membership committee in my opinion, but this informal arrangement seems to work so if it ain't broke.....)

I was just trying to share our ideas with others to help in an area that needs attention CAP wide.........

[arajca]

You could always stage a photo. That would let you show exactly what you want and identify who is in it.

[Eclipse]

With regard to the legal aspects of using the photo, it was copied from a public domain, no copywright is attached to the photo and it is not being used for a commercial purpose. As I often tell my children, once it hits the internet, there is nothing private.

That, however, is not how it works.  CAP Web sites are not "public domain".
Whether its for commercial use or not, is immaterial to the conversation.

Just because someone posts a photo which they didn't have the rights to post to start with, does not deny the original copyright holder their rights. 

The fact that no copyright information was attached overtly does not mean rights do not exist.  Are you familiar with the concept of Digimarc?

For the most part photos of CAP activities posted properly by members in forums or on CAP news are fair game for reposting of the news story, etc., and I believe the copyright defaults to the corporation, however at no point do they fall into "public domain".

We husband our public image pretty closely up this way, and when we see photos of our people, especially what can arguably be considered one of the more active and successful teams in this wing, being used in someone else's recruiting posters, you might understand why we get a wee bit cranky.

No one is insinuating nefarious intent here, but the point stands, if you're going to use some other unit in collateral for your unit, the courtesy of asking first should always be applied.  You might also get cooperation and pictures that show members actually doing something instead of just standing around 1/2 cut off.

[cap235629]

point taken ^

but again, no one was identified in the photo so who was I to ask?

You would think I was slandering people.

Don't worry, use has been stopped immediately, just not worth the aggravation

Remind me to confiscate all cameras at any CAP activity so as not to offend anyone if their likeness was displayed without forwarding of royalty checks.

The intent of this flyer was to recruit SENIOR MEMBERS for ground teams.  A noble endeavor and if I was honored by being depicted in such a flattering photo I would probably look at the bigger picture, THE MISSION.

I do however take exception to crack about core values as I have never once done anything that would impugn upon my integrity, sense of duty and honor.

see what happens when you try to do something that may actually help.....

If you want to discuss this more please send me a PM

COULD WE LOCK THIS PLEASE!

[PWK-GT]

Bill, if your hands are indeed clean here, then no issue. But SOMEBODY grabbed it.

To say that I am puzzled as to how a picture  put up ONLY on our Squadron blog found it's way to NHQ, is a huge understatement.

I have a real hard time believing that NHQ has picture trolls stealing from unit websites.

And I have a tight hand on the reigns dealing with what content gets pushed upwards. That rules out a lot of explanations.

[cap235629]

I didn't even know what wing, never mind what squadron the photo came from, let's just call it a night, we are all here for the same reasons and I realize after reading my last post that I am cranky and tired....

Good night all,

Wishing you well

Please forgive my whining, I need to get some sleep!!!

[Murph]

Do you have a link to this "Photo Archive"? I just skimmed through the "Photo Gallery" on capchannel and it's not in there.

Murph

[CrewDog]

I'm getting in late on this thread, but just a few observations:  The photo was never on NHQ site, cap235629 knows this, which is why he was quick to reply, (paraphrasing) " that is what happwens when you try and do something good."  When people are confronted with the truth which does not jibe with their version of events this is what they do.  It usually takes an hour or two under bright lights or perhaps waterboarding.  I'm impressed by the interrogation skills of these posters.
This could be such a non issue if it were not for the continued claim of the where the photo came from.  I'm calling bovine escrement.

[Short Field]

The source of the photo could make a difference in being able to use.  However, I check Knowledgebase to see what they said about use of photos. This applies to photo releases - not to the copyright issue.  Knowledgebase referenced the article that I took this out of:

This is why CAP regulations do not
require photo releases, either for senior
members or cadets. The prevailing
policy is that members participate in
CAP activities of their own volition, in
public settings, and any photos taken
of them are intended only to promote
the organization and its opportunities
for volunteerism -- not for profit.

[Major Carrales]

Wow...a CAP Officer makes an informative document for the benefit of CAP Ground Teams using a photo found at a National site and you people swarm in like hawks. :clap: Bravo CAPTALKERS...Bravo indeed.

There are so many wonder why "new ideas" never make it to the mainstream, this may be why.  Next time may I suggest you people do this in PM where it belongs.

[arajca]

Except for the use of a picture which the designer did not have approval/authorization to use, the comments have been positive, with a couple of suggestions for improvement.

Personally, I wouldn't use a photo off any CAP website. I'd take some time and get a few squared-away members together and stage an appropriate shot. And take lots of pictures for different angles. Get faces. You never know, someone may see the poster and recognize someone in it which would provide a personal interest.

[Rotorhead]

As I often tell my children, once it hits the internet, there is nothing private.

You ought to stop telling them that before they end up in a lawsuit.

Copyright law absolutely applies to the internet. All it takes is the image owner deciding to sue, and you're in trouble.

[Rotorhead]

Remind me to confiscate all cameras at any CAP activity so as not to offend anyone if their likeness was displayed without forwarding of royalty checks.

This attitude doesn't help.

You made a mistake. Acting passive-agressive doesn't change that.

As the Thunderbirds would say, "Fix it for next time."

ETA: Sorry, I missed your apology post when I wrote this.

[PWK-GT]

Wow...a CAP Officer makes an informative document for the benefit of CAP Ground Teams using a photo found at a National site and you people swarm in like hawks. :clap: Bravo CAPTALKERS...Bravo indeed.

There are so many wonder why "new ideas" never make it to the mainstream, this may be why.  Next time may I suggest you people do this in PM where it belongs.

I appreciate the opinion sir, but this was not found at NHQ. And my point of common courtesy still stands. As a fellow PAO, would you condone this behavior? I think not....

The pic was not at NHQ.......not now, and not ever. End of story. I challenge the original poster to provide a link there, but as Murph already mentioned (after searching the entire archive)...it's not.

This is not an issue of copyrights or royalties. This is a basic core values issue, the issue of integrity. This attitude from the original poster of "the end justifies the means" is a load of bubkus.

As for keeping this to PM, it did go that route for a bit...but then new posters keep adding to it.

Maybe this will make an interesting Character Development segment for our cadets soon.

[Major Carrales]

Wow...a CAP Officer makes an informative document for the benefit of CAP Ground Teams using a photo found at a National site and you people swarm in like hawks. :clap: Bravo CAPTALKERS...Bravo indeed.

There are so many wonder why "new ideas" never make it to the mainstream, this may be why.  Next time may I suggest you people do this in PM where it belongs.

I appreciate the opinion sir, but this was not found at NHQ. And my point of common courtesy still stands. As a fellow PAO, would you condone this behavior? I think not....

The pic was not at NHQ.......not now, and not ever. End of story. I challenge the original poster to provide a link there, but as Murph already mentioned (after searching the entire archive)...it's not.

This is not an issue of copyrights or royalties. This is a basic core values issue, the issue of integrity. This attitude from the original poster of "the end justifies the means" is a load of bubkus.

As for keeping this to PM, it did go that route for a bit...but then new posters keep adding to it.

Maybe this will make an interesting Character Development segment for our cadets soon.

My issue is not one of "this photo was taken from where," but rather how these matters get hammered out here infront of the world by CAPTALK CAP OFFICERS.  As to your point, I agree.  I try to use only photos I have taken with my camera when publishing them in my newsletters.  Other images I have to get the permission of those that submitted them or, they are taken from sources displayed as "public domain" (such as clip art, National CAP databases or from open statements pretaining to other sources.

Back to the point...

The ideal way would have been to point this out to the original threadster via PM.  The Original threadster would then take it down or fess up to the error if that had been too late (after a while one cannot edir/delete posts).  Had this failed then the Moderators should be contacted citing that a post had violated/might possibly have violated copyright issues.  Moderators would then lock or subdue the post.

Instead, the issue was slathered all over the internet with coy remarks and incredulous replies.

That is when I "throw the flag" and call for civility.

[Rotorhead]

Wow...a CAP Officer makes an informative document for the benefit of CAP Ground Teams using a photo found at a National site and you people swarm in like hawks. :clap: Bravo CAPTALKERS...Bravo indeed.

There are so many wonder why "new ideas" never make it to the mainstream, this may be why.  Next time may I suggest you people do this in PM where it belongs.

I appreciate the opinion sir, but this was not found at NHQ. And my point of common courtesy still stands. As a fellow PAO, would you condone this behavior? I think not....

The pic was not at NHQ.......not now, and not ever. End of story. I challenge the original poster to provide a link there, but as Murph already mentioned (after searching the entire archive)...it's not.

This is not an issue of copyrights or royalties. This is a basic core values issue, the issue of integrity. This attitude from the original poster of "the end justifies the means" is a load of bubkus.

As for keeping this to PM, it did go that route for a bit...but then new posters keep adding to it.

Maybe this will make an interesting Character Development segment for our cadets soon.

My issue is not one of "this photo was taken from where," but rather how these matters get hammered out here infront of the world by CAPTALK CAP OFFICERS.  

Isn't that the point of bringing it up on a public bulletin board? To hash it out?

[Major Carrales]

Wow...a CAP Officer makes an informative document for the benefit of CAP Ground Teams using a photo found at a National site and you people swarm in like hawks. :clap: Bravo CAPTALKERS...Bravo indeed.

There are so many wonder why "new ideas" never make it to the mainstream, this may be why.  Next time may I suggest you people do this in PM where it belongs.

I appreciate the opinion sir, but this was not found at NHQ. And my point of common courtesy still stands. As a fellow PAO, would you condone this behavior? I think not....

The pic was not at NHQ.......not now, and not ever. End of story. I challenge the original poster to provide a link there, but as Murph already mentioned (after searching the entire archive)...it's not.

This is not an issue of copyrights or royalties. This is a basic core values issue, the issue of integrity. This attitude from the original poster of "the end justifies the means" is a load of bubkus.

As for keeping this to PM, it did go that route for a bit...but then new posters keep adding to it.

Maybe this will make an interesting Character Development segment for our cadets soon.

My issue is not one of "this photo was taken from where," but rather how these matters get hammered out here infront of the world by CAPTALK CAP OFFICERS.  

Isn't that the point of bringing it up on a public bulletin board? To hash it out?

We are not a place where we bash our newest members in public.  I have often brought my ideas and concepts to CAPTALK and, before that, the Civil Air Portal.  I have benefited by the discussion.  However, when an idea might be in need of a true "hammering," many of my long time connections/friends on CAPTALK have taken the comments, suggestions and indignation to Private Message.  We should temper our ideas here, but being mean because one feels that are a more "official" CAP Officer amounts to "throwing one's weight around.

Only on a few threads, like uniform photo threads, has it devolved.

This occasion a very motivated CAP recruiter brought his wares to CAPTALK for suggestions.  The positive and constructive criticism should be posts...faux pas and policy violation should be addressed in private for correction with an after the fact "my bad" from the one in question.

Surely you don't feel "bashing a fellow officer" for an infraction in a public forum which will be archived along time is better than the system I mentioned? 

[Eclipse]

It should be pointed out that no one told him to stop using the photo, I / we were only making the point that recruiting posters should feature your own people and capabilities, and if you're going to pull a photo off someone else's website, the courtesy of actually asking if you can use it is expected.

Like everything else here, if you choose to post your warez, you take the risk of the response, and hanging out the "no good deed goes unpunished banner" when people have issues won't buy you any more points.

This is the same argument we make with our cadets about YouTube, Filesharing, and stealing music.  Just because its easy, doesn't make it right.

And as I offered earlier, albeit in a less than straightforward way, if he's interested, we'd be happy to assist in making a new flyer.  Beyond that, I agree we should let this lay.

[Rotorhead]

Surely you don't feel "bashing a fellow officer" for an infraction in a public forum which will be archived along time is better than the system I mentioned? 

Point taken.

[JohnKachenmeister]

Where did they find those neat orange cargo vests?

[Eclipse]

Where did they find those neat orange cargo vests?

Depends which one you mean, there at least three different vests in that photo - a TAC vest with oranage accents added, not sure on the center one, and the SARMed vests I'm always talking up.  They've become quite popular up in these parts because they are cheap, durable, and fit the need for both (most) GT work, UDF, and other duties like flight line, Safety, etc.

http://captalk.net/index.php?topic=4589.msg90545#msg90545

This guy's always got them:  http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZpatchking2002