Rank VS Grade VS … what???

[CapnSuper]

I've seen much confusion about the terms 'rank' versus 'grade' plus some other role that I don't have a term for.  When I look at Leadership 2000, it seems very clear:

"The term "grade" and "rank" often are confused.  Grade is a major step in the promotion structure or program while rank is grade adjusted for time. "Captain" or "major" are eAAAamples of grade; several individuals can have the same grade.  Rank normally shows seniority; no two persons in a grade have the same rank – one is always senior to the other. "

So Captain AAA has a higher grade than Sgt TTT, and also outranks Sgt TTT because rank is simply time in grade.  Captain AAA has been at that grade for 2 years, so while they have the same grade Captain AAA also out-ranks Captain Q who just got the grade one week ago, again because rank is time in grade.

That appears clear to me however it brings me to a situation which is not clear at all, or at least it is not clear what term to apply.

Captain AAA out-ranks every cadet in the squadron.  One month ago, Captain AAA ended her term as Cadet Commander which is their, what... duty assignment or (insert term here) .   Lieutenant DDD took over in this ( ____role ?  missing term___ ) duty of Cadet Commander.

According to what I understand, Lieutenant DDD as Cadet Commander has more responsibility than Captain AAA, who now attends and helps out however has no official duty/role/whatever-you-call-it. 

In squadron formation, however, Captain AAA still obeys the orders of Lt DDD due to Lt DDD's role as Squadron Commander.

The cadets think that Lt DDD outranks Capt AAA because they somehow seem to have been taught that the more responsibility you have the higher rank you have.  As I understand it, as a general rule, as you go up in rank you will receive more responsibility but the terms are not joined.  Rank is rank.  Then what is this other thing?

So, what term is applied to the role of Cadet Commander?  It isn't a rank, nor a grade (I hope...).  Because if I understand it correctly, Captain AAA still outranks Lt DDD.

Help.  What is that role/function called?  Duty?  Assignment?  I hope it's not rank or grade or I'm totally lost. 

AND where can I find written CAP documentation (or otherwise, preferably military) to clarify this?

Thanks,
Capn Super

[ande.boyer]

I've always understood that one's rank is what  you wear on  your collar and your grade is your position within the chain of command.

Usually, anyone with a higher grade will also out-rank all those with lower grades.  However, as this is CAP and there are more exceptions than rules, its often the case that a squadron commander may be "out-ranked" by others in the squad.  This is the case in my squadron where our CC is a Captain but we have several LtCol's in the unit as well.

The same situation often arises in the cadet ranks but not as often as I've observed.  Usually cadet leadership positions get rotated around so everyone gets a chance to lead.  If a cadet has been the C/CC and gets "term limited," then they usually rotate out into some kind of advisory role or start doing stuff on group or wing staff.

The situation where C/Capt X, who is the cadet commander, wants to tell C/LtCol Y what to do must be approached carefully and professionally and I imagine is different in all situations.

[CapnSuper]

From what I read, grade (not rank) is what you wear on your collar:

From the Leadership manual:
""The term "grade" and "rank" often are confused.  Grade is a major step in the promotion structure or program while rank is grade adjusted for time. "Captain" or "major" are eAAAamples of grade; several individuals can have the same grade. "

So I have a grade of Captain and wear the Captain insignia.  My rank, it seems to me (not having been in the military) is time-in-grade, or as it says "grade adjusted for time".  That's how 2 Captains (equal grade) can tell who has the highest rank (whoever has been Captain longest).

Another example:
In our area we have multiple Lt Col's as squadron commanders, yet the Group Commander is a (mere) Major.  To me, then, the Lt Col would have a higher rank (due to higher grade) however the Group Commander, as a lower rank (Major), still has a higher position of authority due to their broader responsibilities within the org, and going "up the chain" ALWAYS involves going to the Major first, then to the Wing Commander, even though going up the the next rank would skip over the Major and go directly to the full Colonel.

So I'm still unclear what this "higher level in the chain of command" should be called, as it does not appear (to me, as I try to understand the manual) that rank or grade equate directly to position in the chain of command.

Boy am I confused.
Capn Super

[MIKE]

Grade and rank as described in Leadership 2000: And Beyond Second Edition does not account for position based authority trumping earned grade and or rank... This is for the most part just the result of the way things are in most CAP units where cadets and seniors can and do hold positions of authority without regard for grade and rank.

L2K: AB SE, AFMAN 36-2203 and CAPP 151 assume that positions of authority and customs and courtesies are granted based on grade and rank as defined therein.

[SarDragon]

The term you seek is "Positional Authority".

In our organization, being voluntary, and having promotion methodology a bit different from the military, it often happens that brand new members (< 1 year) can attain advanced grades due to qualifications achieved prior to becoming a member. The command structure allows this, because the Squadron Commander is appointed by and serves at the pleasure of the Wing Commander. The commander is the boss, regardless of grade or rank. We serve at his/her pleasure, also subject to out own established limitations.

[lordmonar]

To back up what Major Bowles just said.

We are a training program.  We enter into situations that you would very rarely encounter on active duty.  In the case of Capt AAA and Lt DDD.   The good captain has got his time in the hot seat and has learned enough from that job.  Now it is time for Lt DDD to get that experience. 

Positional Authority ALWAYS trumps rank or grade, even on active duty.  The commander of a ship at sea is always "The Captain" even if he is only an O-2 Lt JG and even if there is an O-10 Admiral on board.

Similarly the Aircraft Commander (Left Seat Pilot) is alway the boss no matter what the rank of the guys in the back of the plane.

So.  The c/CC is the boss and all cadets answer to him, even if you have a c/Col running around.

It is not generally covered in the leadership text because the military takes pains to avoid situations like this.  They only happen once in awhile and don't last long.

But in CAP we don't have the ability to move cadets around to be sure they are in jobs commiserate with their ranks or to insure that every available billet is filled by an appropriately ranked cadet.  Add to that the need to share leadership opportunities with several cadets in a squadron and you end up with this being the norm and not the exception in CAP.

[Becks]

Well put captain Harris.  And to reiterate, grade is whats on your collar.  Often it is called rank because people are confused and because through popular culture (ie movies) it tends to be refered to as rank.

[ZigZag911]

The other term you folks are looking for is "position", which generally refers to a person's duty assignment.

There are command positions and staff positions.

Commanders (and by extension deputies, vices, chiefs of staff) exercise direct authority by virtue of the position (or command 'job') that they hold.

Staff officers carry out there functions under the umbrella, so to speak, of the authority of the commander who appointed them,

Grade does not bring automatic authority; it does, however, bring responsibility...that is, a higher ranking member (cadet or senior) would be expected to realize a safety problem and speak up more quickly than a less experienced member...regardless of their position.

Finally, as a practical matter, you won't normally encounter questions of 'rank' (who has longer time in a particular grade), because it rarely has any real world (or even CAP world!) application.

[CapnSuper]

This helps TREMENDOUSLY.  I knew someone could explain it.

Thanks alot!
Capn Super

[SER Safety]

Great forum
many times we have Jo's(Junior Officers)  running our SAR Ex and telling our Lt Col what to do.

Ernie Manzano, Maj
SER Safety