Another ABU Question

[jb512]

Smurf blue and white looks ridiculous on BDUs and ABUs.

[DNall]

The proposal does not include any shade of blue background for tapes or badges. It is clearly distinctive from AF, but is also professional (ie not clownish). It has already been to CAP-USAF & CAP/CC w/ positive comments. The two issues right now are the supply chain determining when this goes down, and some personnel issues with the cmte. The details on a lot of that needs to stay under wraps at this point.

What's important for membership to understand is:
1) You can and should drive on with BDUs for the time being, as they will remain usable till at least the 2013/14 time frame.

2) ABUs will be coming in the foreseeable future. But worrying about when or what it'll look like is a complete waste of your time. I know what's going on, and I'd be wasting my time speculating on some of those issues.

[lordmonar]

Isn't how all these threads end......."It's comming.....but go ahead and buy BDUs now if you need to".

[SJFedor]

Isn't how all these threads end......."It's comming.....but go ahead and buy BDUs now if you need to".

Actually, they usually end like this:

I think this thread has outlived it's usefulness.

*lock*

[winterg]

But worrying about when or what it'll look like is a complete waste of your time.

And what am I supposed to do without great time-waste threads?

Besides, if we keep you talking you might let something slip. 

[Smokey]

Hey Winterg,


I recognize that stuff at the bottom of your post.  I wear that round AFFTC Shuttle team patch on my zoom bag.  I am the DO for  the CAP .shuttle recovery team.

[AvroArrow]

Got a little lost...

As a community at CAPTalk, we've decided white lettering over the ABU pattern would be distinct, right?

Also, for sewn-on insignia (basically, everyone but the "enlisted" cadets) that would go on the collar like the BDUs?

I need a quick summary of what's been going on 

[winterg]

Smokey,

I was with the Helicopter Rescue unit on Ramp 3 at Hanger 1414 at Eddie's in the early 1990's.  That patch is one of SEVERAL I wore at the AFFTC.  At least when i was wearing a slob-bag.  We wore BDU's a lot there.

[MIKE]

Guys, take it to PM.  Don't derail the topic with an off topic side conversion.

[Timbo]

2) ABUs will be coming in the foreseeable future. But worrying about when or what it'll look like is a complete waste of your time. I know what's going on, and I'd be wasting my time speculating on some of those issues.

That is mere speculation. 

[SarDragon]

^ Except for when there are exceptions, such as the CAWG GT uniform.

Give that a rest. The current Wing King turned that off about a year ago, until such time as it can become a legal uniform.

[MikeD]

^ Except for when there are exceptions, such as the CAWG GT uniform.

Give that a rest. The current Wing King turned that off about a year ago, until such time as it can become a legal uniform.

I thought at last NB there was some magic wand waiving and it's now back to the Wing King to allow it?  I also heard some griping at SARCity about Wing not letting it go and some Sheriff Dept being upset about the lack of orange. 

So for the most hideous uniform combo ever, I propose:
Green Boots
ABU Pants
Orange BDU Shirt with Ultra-ugly-marine patches

[BillB]

The idea of going to the BBDU for everyone is a bad idea. Why? You're forgetting about 20,000 members of CAP, the cadets. By the time CAP goes to the ABU, if they do, ABUs will have started appearing at DRMO or surplus sources. Many cadets can't afford the uniforms required now for activities. The requirement many Wings have for cadets to go to encampment with two sets of BDUs which they have to purtchase or obtain through Squadron supply is a problem for many low income, or even middle income families in this "recession". Lets not forget cadets when thinking of uniforms not available through military surplus or other low cost availabilities.
During the early 1970's in an Air War College paper it was found that it cost a CAP cadet about $800 for uniforms, activities, encampments etc up throughh the Mitchell. What is that in 2008 dollars? Requiring a non low cost uniform would hurt the cadet program.

[JayT]

From a reliable source.....we will go to ABUs....it is just a matter of when.  The discussions are taking place as CAP-USAF level.

I think the ABU's would be great for CAP. Only problem. Would we be using same insignia?

*blinks*

Which insignia?

If you search for ABU's, you'll find about a thousand pages of discussion about this.

[Stonewall]

As far as availability of ABUs for purchase, I have been to 5 AF bases in the past year, Bolling, Charleston, Moody, Lackland and Patrick (5 different states) and all had complete stocks of ABUs.

Everyone entering the AF gets 4 sets and everyone deploying gets them.  The only issue, if you want to call it that, is individual units having enough to issue to their members.  I'm not sure how it is on AD, but in the ANG, we all got issued one set a year ago and the full-time guys have been issued at least 2.

They're available, they just have to be bought.

[Eclipse]

The idea of going to the BBDU for everyone is a bad idea. Why? You're forgetting about 20,000 members of CAP, the cadets. By the time CAP goes to the ABU, if they do, ABUs will have started appearing at DRMO or surplus sources. Many cadets can't afford the uniforms required now for activities. The requirement many Wings have for cadets to go to encampment with two sets of BDUs which they have to purchase or obtain through Squadron supply is a problem for many low income, or even middle income families in this "recession". Lets not forget cadets when thinking of uniforms not available through military surplus or other low cost availabilities.

I'm sorry, but our uniform policies should not be based on whether a small sub-set of a subset of less than 1/2 our members might be able to get them used, if the stars fall into alignment. 

To that argument, have you seen how much the boots for ABU's cost and how difficult they will be to keep clean for the average cadet?  They also rarely get undershirts which will change or hats.

Further, if one wing is being uber-oppressive in their encampment requirements, address it there, not in my closet.

I'd have no issue leaving cadets in the BDU indefinitely, either.

During the early 1970's in an Air War College paper it was found that it cost a CAP cadet about $800 for uniforms, activities, encampments etc up through the Mitchell. What is that in 2008 dollars? Requiring a non low cost uniform would hurt the cadet program.

No way.  I do not buy that.

I would have challenged that in 1970 dollars, let alone whatever the monster number +inflation works out to be today.
$4-500 in todays dollars, maybe.  Maybe.

That's if they pay full retail for everything, never get anything for free, and can't take care of their clothes properly.
I don't think I've dropped more than $2000 myself in 9 years and I have every uniform combination you can wear, including multiples of corporate vs. USAF-style - you put two service coats and a blazer on there with tailoring and that's $500 - no the average cadet's experience.

And I know not all our cadets are in sports, but I'm about done listening to the ones in away-football or hockey complain about how much CAP costs. 

We offer a unique set of opportunities for our cadets (and seniors).  Like everything else in life, they are not free, and the sooner we accept that, the better.

I know of a few ways that 18-35 years olds can get similar opportunities, however that requires a 2-6+ year commitment.  I know of no other way for 12-18 years olds or 36-100+ years olds to get the same opportunities free or otherwise.

[MIKE]

I think we can let the dead horse beating stop once again, as nobody really has an answer to the question posed.