New Corporate Uniform

[MIKE]

Unlike the other CAP distinctive uniforms... I haven't seen anything that says you can wear any kind of civilian outerwear with these uniforms... Seems to me that it's the black windbreaker and maybe the black A-2 (If I read it right.) or nothing.

[AlphaSigOU]

MIKE's correct. Only outerwear authorized for the TPU so far is the black windbreaker and the black A-2. I don't think any other silly-vilian outerwear is authorized.

[MIKE]

MIKE's correct. Only outerwear authorized for the TPU so far is the black windbreaker and the black A-2. I don't think any other silly-vilian outerwear is authorized.

I guess a black raincoat or All-weather coat is the next logical step since you can't really wear the windbreaker or A-2 over that service coat.  Not that people won't do it anyway.

silly-vilian     

[AlphaSigOU]

Black A-2 on blue or gray CAP distinctives... no problem.
Plain brown A-2 on gray CAP distinctives... no problem.
Brown A-2 with doohickeys on AF-style... prepare to incur the wrath of the USAF Aircrew Mafia! 

[ZigZag911]

Has there been any Air Force reaction to this uniform?? It is so close to several mulitary uniforms, including USAF, it's hard to imagine there has been no response.

[AlphaSigOU]

Has there been any Air Force reaction to this uniform?? It is so close to several mulitary uniforms, including USAF, it's hard to imagine there has been no response.

The commander of CAP-USAF, Col Hodgkins had no problem with it when it was unveiled at the NEC meeting.  However, once you see the new TPU in widespread use there's probably going to be more than a few heads-a-turnin' and a few colonels and generals giving birth to kittens sideways.

While it mimics the AF-style uniform, the uniform appears distinctive enough that it shouldn't pose a major problem for the RealAirForce. Ya never know, but they might not appreciate the end run Gen. Pineda did to the AF brass.

There may be some minor changes to uniform items sometime down the road, and perhaps if more senior members wear this uniform combination properly, the AF brass may relent a leetle and give us back pin-on grade insignia and distinctive blue epaulets like the olden days... but don't hold your breath.

[cmoore]

I have felt the same way for several years, and many seniors seem to agree....let's simplify the senior uniforms, cut down on confusion, cost, and needless conflict with our parent service.

I'm not sure about the "cut down on cost" part.  Since I've joined I wear the blues whenever the occasion warrants, and in that time the uniform hasn't changed.  But the Corporate uniform has changed half a dozen times.  I can't afford to go out and buy a new shirt and pants, not to mention all the CAP distinctive hardware from Vanguard, every few months.

Chris

[ZigZag911]

Wel, USAF is getting ready to change uniform designs again, for about the 3rd time in the past 10 to 15 years.....eventually that filters down to us, and becomes mandatory for seniors LONG before the cadets....anyway the point is to have a single senior uniform and keep it that way long term.

Of more concern to me is the apparent mixing of civilian items (shirt, slacks) with military items (hats, belts) in the new corporate uniform....WIWAC back in the dark ages we had it drummed into us that this was simply not done!

[williamcabot]

Has there been any Air Force reaction to this uniform?? It is so close to several mulitary uniforms, including USAF, it's hard to imagine there has been no response.

I'm not sure but I thought the AirForce approved of this uniform already and that is why it is allowed in CAP.

[shorning]

I'm not sure but I thought the AirForce approved of this uniform already and that is why it is allowed in CAP.

"Air Force"...two words...

[ZigZag911]

Has there been any Air Force reaction to this uniform?? It is so close to several mulitary uniforms, including USAF, it's hard to imagine there has been no response.

I'm not sure but I thought the AirForce approved of this uniform already and that is why it is allowed in CAP.

I believe the reaction of the CAP-USAF commander was essentially "no comment"....hardly a ringing endorsement!

[williamcabot]

well I guess if the Air Force didn't like the new uniform they would have said something to stop it being issued, hopefully it will stay in because I like this new uniform.

[Major_Chuck]

I've heard that there has been some negative comments about the TPU in the Pentagon and that one general officer has already expressed his dislike for the corporate service uniform.

[Matt]

well I guess if the Air Force didn't like the new uniform they would have said something to stop it being issued, hopefully it will stay in because I like this new uniform.

Not necessarily.  The AF doesn't control corporate uniforms.  However, as stated:

I've heard that there has been some negative comments about the TPU in the Pentagon and that one general officer has already expressed his dislike for the corporate service uniform.

I've heard the same scuttlebutt.  Rumor has it a nice LtGen saw it and almost blew his lid.  Because CAP Corporate Uniforms CANNOT be mixed with USAF uniform items without prior approval... one because well, it's the AF and that's just how it is and two, because it's common courtesy...

[Smitty (The Other One)]

well I guess if the Air Force didn't like the new uniform they would have said something to stop it being issued, hopefully it will stay in because I like this new uniform.

Not necessarily.  The AF doesn't control corporate uniforms.  However, as stated:

I've heard that there has been some negative comments about the TPU in the Pentagon and that one general officer has already expressed his dislike for the corporate service uniform.

I've heard the same scuttlebutt.  Rumor has it a nice LtGen saw it and almost blew his lid.  Because CAP Corporate Uniforms CANNOT be mixed with USAF uniform items without prior approval... one because well, it's the AF and that's just how it is and two, because it's common courtesy...

Doesn't surprise me at all.  As Maj Bowles stated: after a while, there will be enough of an outcry from angry Air Force Field Grade and General Officers that the CAP corpoate service dress uniform will be done away with.  Like he said, their heads will turn and they'll be giving birth to kittens sideways (I'm going to use that one in the future, by the way!)

I've been told that this new uniform is in violation of both the articles of the UCMJ and the codes of the USC.  And it's all because of the mixing of Air Force insignia and civilian articles of clothing.  If CAP decided to make the grey shoulder marks a part of the uniform instead of the blue Air Force shoulder marks, the uniform would be legal to wear.  They avoided the nametag problem by creating a distinctive blue one for the shirt.     

Like the Navy-style service dress coat with officer sleeve grade insignia instituted by Air Force Gen Merril McPeak, I don't think the TPU is going to last.  I think Maj Bowles' prediction will prove to be true.  One Lt Gen at the Pentagon may be all it takes to get rid of the TPU.       

[ZigZag911]

We still could use a CAP distinctive uniform in a military style (i.e., with a service hacket of some description.

On another thread some months ago i suggested khaki, as a nod to CAP's historical roots in the Army Air Force, and to the summer uniform of the USAF in its early years.

I'm not sure how much the Navy still uses khaki, but I would imagine differences in insignia ought to overcome any problems or objections from them.

[arajca]

If the mixing of military insignia and civilian clothing is an issue to the military, why haven't they gone after security guards, police officers, ACA, or the plethora of non-military organizations and companies that use them? How about the soldier who works part time as a security guard? CAP does have a history of using military insignia on our uniforms - look at the NCO grades.

If you pull the "Well, they don't look like military uniforms", it won't cut it for the ACA and other similar orgaizations. I have yet to see anyone who would confuse the CAP service dress with a military uniform.

The only change I see coming down is the change from US cutouts to CAP. Which should have been done at the beginning.

[Cobra1597]

If the mixing of military insignia and civilian clothing is an issue to the military, why haven't they gone after security guards, police officers, ACA, or the plethora of non-military organizations and companies that use them? How about the soldier who works part time as a security guard? CAP does have a history of using military insignia on our uniforms - look at the NCO grades.

If you pull the "Well, they don't look like military uniforms", it won't cut it for the ACA and other similar orgaizations. I have yet to see anyone who would confuse the CAP service dress with a military uniform.

The only change I see coming down is the change from US cutouts to CAP. Which should have been done at the beginning.

I think there is a slight disconnect here. CAP has USAF uniforms, like the camo BDUs, and the service dress that you mentioned. These uniforms have to be, and are, approved by the Air Force. The problem here is the corporate, or CAP Distinctive uniforms. These are uniforms that are not based on the USAF uniforms, like our service dress is. These uniforms do not have to be approved by the Air Force.

Forgive me if I misunderstand what you said, but there is no issue with military insignia on the service dress. That is a military uniform that we are authorized by the Air Force to wear.

[SarDragon]

Smitty - you quoted and made reference to the wrong major, I believe it's Major_Chuck you were thinking of.

As for prior references to buying new uniforms, from what I can see, they haven't gotten rid of any existing uniforms (yet), so the polo shirt with grey slacks, and the aviator shirt with grey slacks are still valid uniforms. I certainly hope so, because I'm not allowed to wear the new combination(s).

[caphornbuckle]

I am wondering if there's a problem with anyone else besides me who can't afford to keep changing uniforms.  I don't have the money to do this.  Most of my squadron members get part of their uniform items from the DRMO.

If we choose to get rid of the AF-style blues uniform (which I heard rumored for a while now-thus the purpose for the change) what are we supposed to do?  I understand that only the shirt will change for the most part (which I already have) but are we going to wear our military decorations on it in the future as well?

I pay so much money on dues and attending CAP activities they should be issuing us Senior Members uniform vouchers like the cadets!

There are many questions that need answered on this issue and not with the short-notice we get from our superiors.  This uniform has already changed so many times in the last 7 months, I'm scared to get one!  Nameplates, headwear, grooming standards, Jackets, etc.  when will it end?