New Corporate Uniform

[Eclipse]

No idea the source for this Cadetstuff thread,
http://forums.cadetstuff.org/viewtopic.php?t=5522&highlight
but frankly I like the look.  Very RAF.

[thefischNX01]

Actually, I kinda like it....distinctive, yet military.   :clap:


Now...where to get the coat?

[Matt]

Actually, I kinda like it....distinctive, yet military.   :clap:


Now...where to get the coat?

Nearest commercial airport... Just ask nicely of any Midwest Express or Continental Pilot!

... I'm thinking that it will in the distant future be stocked at Vanguard, however, I think Tom at the Hock will probably have it a bit sooner than later.

[SarDragon]

The rank will be worn on the epaulet sleeves/shoulder marks, not the actual epaulet on the shirt or coat. Let's try to keep our terminology straight here.

OK - well, it's "Grade", not "rank".   

I was merely echoing previous posts, and not causing or continuing any confusion. There is, however, a necessary distinction between epaulets and what's worn on them.

[Earhart1971]

No idea the source for this Cadetstuff thread,
http://forums.cadetstuff.org/viewtopic.php?t=5522&highlight
but frankly I like the look.  Very RAF.

I like the uniform too.

By the way Bob, you get Randy Gross and his son squared away.

You said they came by the meeting.

Later,

Jerry

[mikeylikey]

Are the buttons the Hap Arnold set or what?  Can't wait to see the cost of the jacket at vanguard.  I bet they triple the shipping cost too!

[Chaplaindon]

Although I very much like this uniform, and IF it were to me (which --thankfully-- for everyone involved it isn't nor ever will be) CAP SM's (at least) would switch to a corporate uniform in order to be UNIFORM.  It seems pointless to call something(s) "uniforms" when virtually anytime CAP gathers, even in the smallest groups, there is a vast assortment of so-called "uniforms." To my mind the only thing CAP's uniforms aren't, ultimately, is uniform. As most of you know militaries use uniforms for reasons of operational efficiency. If we are not uniform, we are not military regardless of the style of the clothing. They may be military, but without actual uniformity, the organization is not.

My vote is for the SMs to go to a corporate uniform that everyone can wear (let the cadets wear the USAF "blue suit" as it seemingly supports its mission) as long as USAF will not allow all SMs (and even over 18 cadets) to wear their "suit" lest they meet arbitrary H/W standards. Those SMs who absolutely, positively want/need to wear the USAF uniforms, can join the USAF/ANG.

That having been said, my one real concern (echoing Mikeylikey) has to do with Vanguard and their inevitable mark-up and absurd shipping costs. It may not be worth buying when that's figured in. To my mind, the shift from the Bookstore/CAPMart to Vanguard was an enormous change for the worse. I recently purchased two (2) of the new blue two-line nametags for the corporate uniform. Each was $3.00 as I recall BUT the shipping was a ludicrous $7.00 more.

CAP needs uniformity, but it also needs a uniform supplier that realizes that our members don't print the money.

NHQ needs to "fix" Vanguard or replace it and ASAP.

[Pylon]

What I want to know is why are all these uniform changes just suddenly appearing, completely prepared to go, but the first time the membership gets to see them is when its up for vote by the NB or NEC?

What's wrong with demoing the uniform ideas ahead of time with the membership?  Seeking feedback?  Maybe even a short wear-test period to see if that's what we really want to do?

It seems like somebody up at NHQ is simply drafting a plan together, and when the small group of them decide they've got something good, they hide it from the membership until the NB or NEC approves it.  Bam - we're stuck with it.  No chance to give input on what we'll be wearing for the next 10 years, no opportunity to suggest changes, modifications, or accomodations for all of us.  It doesn't seem right at all.

Why should our view and comment period, and the unveiling of the concept to the membership, be after it's already approved as-is?  Do our opinions not matter one bit?

[mikeylikey]

I would not doubt that someone at national has $$ in vanguard.  I would not also put it past some of them to have $$ in the manufacturer that will be providing this new coat.  Lets face it, they don't want to show the new uniforms, because the members at large may kill the design.  They need to begin being more open about this and a few more things, because it only makes them look like idiots in the end.

[Chaplaindon]

I agree that some increased "transparency" and membership participation would be helpful and useful when considering new uniforms. I would recommend "stealing" a page from the USAF's own playbook and create a uniform review/recommendation board to deal with corporate uniform issues, plans, designs, etc.

That having been said, IMHO the real challenge will be obtaining any sort of consensus regarding designs. Although even a "board" makes a recommendation, it still may be unpopular with the broader membership.

The good thing about shifting --at least the SMs-- to all-corporate uniforms is that a uniform board would actually be able to address all of the uniforms our members wear. As it is, we have no say about the USAF/CAP uniforms.

Furthermore, it appears that we are not even at the mercy of the USAF Uniform Board regarding the USAF/CAP combinations but rather the whiles, opinions, and perhaps petty tyranies of one general officer, the AETC Commander. Taking back CAP's uniforms into CAP "hands" would eliminate such tyranny or arbitrariness in the hands of one individual -- an individual completely EXTERNAL to CAP.

Let's be proud to be CAP, stop trying to "play Air Force," and stop a lone general officer or two from playing enlightened (at best) despot with/to us.

[SFox167]

Does anyone know where I can pick up the Black Windbreaker for the Corp. Uniform?

It looks like the one the US Navy uses, but then again I have not seen that in awhile.

Any information would be great.

[AlphaSigOU]

Does anyone know where I can pick up the Black Windbreaker for the Corp. Uniform?

It looks like the one the US Navy uses, but then again I have not seen that in awhile.

Any information would be great.

Should be available at an Army MCSS near you, unless you want to wait til Vanguard gets 'em in stock.

[MIKE]

Should be available at an Army MCSS near you, unless you want to wait til Vanguard gets 'em in stock.

Yeah... the officers version of the Army black windbreaker has the knit collar.  Try Ebay.

[Hammer]

Should be available at an Army MCSS near you, unless you want to wait til Vanguard gets 'em in stock.

Yeah... the officers version of the Army black windbreaker has the knit collar.  Try Ebay.

So, we go to a Navy-style uniform with an Army Jacket?  Makes sense...

[AlphaSigOU]

Are the buttons the Hap Arnold set or what?  Can't wait to see the cost of the jacket at vanguard.  I bet they triple the shipping cost too!

The buttons are supposedly highly polished CAP buttons. I'm not sure if they're resurrecting the old CAP crest buttons or even going further back in time to use the old prop and triangle buttons. The demo jacket used Hap Arnold AF buttons since the CAP ones weren't ready.

$160.00 at Vanguard, cash, check or plastic. Not to mention the shipping charge.

[capchiro]

Someone mentioned the lack of uniformity wherever CAP meets?  one should look at the "real" military at the present time.  Our encampment was at Ft. Benning, Georgia.  "Real" military platoons marched by with some soldiers in woodland camo, some in desert tan camo, some were in digital camo and a few were in the urban? blue camo.  Talk about a lack of uniformity.  I know they are switching uniforms, but it looked, sort of, you know, ununiform.  (probably not even a word)  Anyhow, in this time of short term deployment and mixing units from different reserve/national guard/active duty units, it leads to some strange bedfellows to say the least.  I think we are as uniform as the rest, at least at this point in time.  I have no idea as to what the future will bring for CAP or the military.  I do know that the lines between services are closing.  The Air Force has been asked to become more involved in Army Medevac, to the point of supplying Air Force personnel to act as medics on Air Force helicopters assigned to retrieve the wounded from the battlefield.  This may not seem like much, but it does show that the forces are working together more and perhaps may someday fall under one command..(Starfleet Command???)  Stranger and stranger we move forward.

[Camas]

Are we allowed to wear other Air Force uniform components such as pullover or cardigan sweaters with this new corporate uniform - or the AF lightweight jacket?  If so, would we wear the Air Force style insignia of grade?

[MIKE]

Are we allowed to wear other Air Force uniform components such as pullover or cardigan sweaters with this new corporate uniform - or the AF lightweight jacket?  If so, would we wear the Air Force style insignia of grade?

No & no.

[AlphaSigOU]

Are we allowed to wear other Air Force uniform components such as pullover or cardigan sweaters with this new corporate uniform - or the AF lightweight jacket?  If so, would we wear the Air Force style insignia of grade?

Lest you wish to have some highly indignant RealAirForce® brass come after us with chains and knives... 

[SarDragon]

Are we allowed to wear other Air Force uniform components such as pullover or cardigan sweaters with this new corporate uniform - or the AF lightweight jacket?  If so, would we wear the Air Force style insignia of grade?

We not is allowed be having the mixing of USAF uniforms and corporate uniforms (being classified as civilian clothes by USAF).