Professional Development Credit for Prior Cadet Service

[Psicorp]

Wow...when i saw this come out this morning I was shocked.
I don't have a problem with the AFIADL 13 waiver, I've long thought that if AFIADL 13 would substitute for RCLS or COS that it should work in reverse. i think thats fair and will be a good thing. I'm not a big fan of the SLS waiver, but I'm ok with it.
Where I draw contention with this comes with the automatic Level II, freebie Yeager, and freebie specialty track ratings.

A cadet who's reached C/Lt Col has already taken an exam on every chapter of the entire aerospace textbook.  The Yeager is an open book test.  I don't see an issue with that "freebie", sir.

Granting the AFIADL-13, the SLS, and the Technician level completes the requirements for Level II,  so it really isn't anything additional.   On the speciality track I can sort of understand the apprehension.   The regs do allow time served in a cadet staff position to fullfill the service requirement for the Technician rating.  All that may be lacking is regulation knowledge, which really should be taught to senior cadets regardless.

[Psicorp]

I believe that's why the "free ride" is being done on a case-by-case bases with approval required by the unit commander.   I can't imagine a commander giving that approval to a member who wasn't making a valuable contribution to the unit.

How many promotions and specialty track ratings are approved at the squadron level for members who never contribute but kept their body warm and paid dues for the requisite amount of time? 

CAP has the mentality of "I checked the boxes, gimme the treat."  Very few and far between are the commanders who withhold promotions, ratings, and trinkets from members who have the TIG/TIS, or have checked the minimum boxes, but never actually helped the squadron.

I chaulk that up to a failure of leadership, sir, not just of the unit commander but also of the higher echelons.   They aren't doing members any favors with that mentality which also means that the members aren't really gaining enough knowledge and experience to be of real benefit to the squadron.   

[afgeo4]

I think there's a big difference between Cadet Programs senior members and cadet officers. That's why we have TAC officers at encampments and why we still have leadership officers even in squadrons with cadet colonels.

They're very different approaches to similar issues. Just because a cadet earns a Spaatz, doesn't make him/her a competent cadet programs officer and in my honest opinion should not qualify them for the Senior or Technician's rating.

That's like giving out observer wings to people who have private pilot's licenses. Sure, they'll probably be able to do the job once they get training and experience, but it's not a guarantee!

[RiverAux]

No special appointments or promotions -- NO EXCEPTIONS!

[mikeylikey]

No special appointments or promotions -- NO EXCEPTIONS!

I can't agree more with you! 

[afgeo4]

No special appointments or promotions -- NO EXCEPTIONS!

I can't agree more with you! 

This thread isn't about appointments or promotions.

Appointments and promotions for former cadets stand as they were before, unaffected.

This is about "wavers" for leadership and specialty track training.

[mikeylikey]

^ But it is about promotions.  By waiving PRO DEV......these former Cadets can promote faster than the rest of us.....right?

[SAR-EMT1]

No Pro Dev waivers, no freebies...  and I say this as a former cadink.
(Who didnt know jack until SLS, and jumped at the Yeager and took it closed book)

[lordmonar]

^ But it is about promotions.  By waiving PRO DEV......these former Cadets can promote faster than the rest of us.....right?

Not really.

A Earheart/Eaker cadet is automatically a 1st Lt.....but will only have a level I qualifiaction.....not the the Tech Rating and Level I qualifications any non cadet would have to have.  An Spaatz Cadet is automatically captain but does not have the Level II required for the rest of us.

Where this gives them a leg up is....they do not have to wait the 9 months to get a tech rating then the 12 months to get a Senior rating before they can start working on their Level III requirements.

Pluss it gives them a buy on the SLS...which everyone has to have (even prio-service military).

If you compare a normal Captain who pinned on the same day as a Spaatz Cadet turned 21.
 
The Spaatz would already have his Senior Rating while the normal captain may not have started his Senior Rating yet and would have to spend 12 months as a technican rated staff member.

Either way.....they both have to wait 3 years....so no one is going to get promoted early.

All this change does is give credit for the PD levels that they would have had to complete for the rank they are wearing.

[AlphaSigOU]

I came back to CAP in 2005 after a 17-year break in service. As a former cadet with the Earhart award, I was eligible for the special appointment to 1st Lt, so long as I completed all my Level I requirements. The special appointment is not automatic; approval rests on the promotion authority (in my case, the squadron commander). It had been too long since I had taken SLS and CLC, and I still needed AFAIDL 13, so I knuckled down and got 'em done as soon as I could.

I don't have a major problem with the new pro dev incentives for cadinks; perhaps it might encourage them to succumb to 'the dark side'?    I do agree with others on this thread that special appointments shouldn't be given out like candy; if you don't contribute to the squadron and/or CAP, you shouldn't get the appointment. I supported my squadron for over two years as admin/personnel officer.

[RickFranz]

Maybe this whole idea is a way to keep some of those (hopefully) highly trained young people from dropping out or  jumping to the Dark Side at 18. 

[smitjud]

Wow...when i saw this come out this morning I was shocked.
I don't have a problem with the AFIADL 13 waiver, I've long thought that if AFIADL 13 would substitute for RCLS or COS that it should work in reverse. i think thats fair and will be a good thing. I'm not a big fan of the SLS waiver, but I'm ok with it.
Where I draw contention with this comes with the automatic Level II, freebie Yeager, and freebie specialty track ratings.

A cadet who's reached C/Lt Col has already taken an exam on every chapter of the entire aerospace textbook.  The Yeager is an open book test.  I don't see an issue with that "freebie", sir.

I understand that.  However, it is the Spaatz Award or the Yeager Award.  Not the Spaatz-Yeager Award, which is essentially what it becomes now.

I would be better with granting a waiver for anything that requires the Yeager Award instead of just automatically awarding it, if they wanted to recognize cadet AE accomplishments.

[MIKE]

IIRC, cadet officers don't cover everything in the AE text... while the Yeager does.

[jimmydeanno]

If it's any consolation, the AE stuff I learned as a cadet enabled me to pass the yeager exam, first try, closed book, 3 years after taking my last cadet AE exam (no C/Officer AE exams).

The yeager is a gimme for the former cadets, but as such, if it is such a gimme - why not just have them take the quiz online, it should take 20 minutes and they'll have actually met the requirement for the yeager award.

[Flying Pig]

^Same here.  As with another former cadet in my Sq.  When I rejoined after many years I took the Yeager and passed it the first go around.  I really like the idea of a lot of these courses being opened up to cadet.  SLS, Yeager, etc.  Now, granted, most cadets are pretty busy with just getting promoted themselves, but you may have a few who can do it.  I know we have several parent combo's in CAP and allowing their cadet to attend the same courses would/could make it easier for the Seniors to attend.

[arajca]

SLS, CLC have been open to cadets if space is available for a long time. Read CAP 50-17. I have never heard of cadets applying for these classes.

[smitjud]

SLS, CLC have been open to cadets if space is available for a long time. Read CAP 50-17. I have never heard of cadets applying for these classes.

Because they don't receive credit.  Would be lame to take it and then have to take it again as a SM.  Therefore, they don't go.

From CAPR 50-17 para. 2-7 (page

The Professional Development Program is designed to prepare senior members for immediate duty. Therefore, while cadets in good standing who meet the prerequisites may attend a professional development activity, space permitting, they will not receive credit for attendance as a senior member.

[afgeo4]

^ But it is about promotions.  By waiving PRO DEV......these former Cadets can promote faster than the rest of us.....right?

Wrong. The TIG requirements are the same as for the rest of us.

[afgeo4]

Maybe this whole idea is a way to keep some of those (hopefully) highly trained young people from dropping out or  jumping to the Dark Side at 18. 

Probably... but is it fair to everyone else in CAP? Seems that it isn't, according to responses on this board.

[ßτε]

For those of you who aren't aware, here is just one part of the Spaatz exam (CAPR 52-16 2-9 b. (1))

Aerospace. A 60-question, multiple-choice, closed-book aerospace test, with a 60-minute time limit, based on selected chapters of Aerospace: The Journey of Flight (see Figure 2-4). The passing score is 80%.

I would say this is at least comparable to the Yeager test.