Legislative Liasion officer rank proposal

[RiverAux]

The May NEC http://level2.cap.gov/documents/2008_May_NEC_Agenda.pdf will be discussing linking rank to the professional development of legislative liasion officers.  After initial appointment to Lt. Col. they will need to advance within the PD scale each 12 months or risk getting kicked back in rank to whatever PD level they are at. 

This seems needed given the facts in the proposal:

Professional development data for Legislative Liaison/Government Relations Officers are as follows: 27 assigned; 1 has no training recorded; 12 have Level I only; 6 have completed Level III; 7 have completed Level IV; 1 has completed Level V

So almost half of the people tasked with talking us and our capabilities up with legislators have only minimal CAP training -- not a good thing. 

CAP-USAF didn't like it very much.  Said it works against the intent of giving them Lt. Col. rank in the first place and though they didn't put it this way -- if we're giving them the bling to look good to the legislators, reducing them defeats the purpose. 

[arajca]

I think they should make a change to the proposal:
As long as the member is serving as Legislative Liasion, they can keep theri bottle caps. When the finish, they revert to the grade for which they have completed the PD for, i.e Level 1 = 2d Lt, Level IV = Lt Col.

Another idea is to require at least Level III before they can qualify for the position.

[RiverAux]

Lets face it, this is a pretty laid-back position compared to many others (depending on the state you're in and how often and long your legislature meets) so I think they have plenty of free time to work on PD.  Quite frankly, if they can't be bothered to do that I don't want them representing us to such an important group.

[Pylon]

Another idea is to require at least Level III before they can qualify for the position.

Or allow anybody to serve in the position, but require at least Level III completion to qualify for the automatic promotion to Lt Col. 

I think they should make a change to the proposal:
As long as the member is serving as Legislative Liasion, they can keep theri bottle caps. When the finish, they revert to the grade for which they have completed the PD for, i.e Level 1 = 2d Lt, Level IV = Lt Col.

This also makes sense.  If you really do have a hard-worker, busy volunteer out there who misses a 12-month deadline to complete some PD (or perhaps it wasn't even possible to complete the level due to availability of courses, timing, etc.), it would look really bad to the legislators this person is working with if they suddenly were demoted.

If the purpose of the oak leaves is to impress the people they're liaisoning with (I think I just coined a new term), then it makes no sense to demote them in position.  But once they leave the position, it does make sense to revert them to earned grade they'd be for duty performance promotions had they not been in the legislative liaison position.  Think of it like the temporary grade of Colonel given to Wing and Region Commanders.  The legislative liaison grade should be changed to be "temporary grade" in the regs.

[Wizard]

Lets face it, this is a pretty laid-back position compared to many others (depending on the state you're in and how often and long your legislature meets) so I think they have plenty of free time to work on PD.  Quite frankly, if they can't be bothered to do that I don't want them representing us to such an important group.

i'm curious...how do you come to this particular conclusion that its a "laid-back" position?

really i'd love to hear this...

[RiverAux]

Easy, most Wing staff positions require that you put in quite a bit of work on a regular ongoing basis. 

Unless you've got a CAP specific bill in the Legislature and need to do a big lobbying effort, the only thing this person has to do is more or less keep in contact with key legislators and do a CAP day when they're in session.  Now, if you're a real go-getter you could probably keep real busy doing fund raising and grant writing as called for by 20-1, but my impression is that few are actually doing that.

The real work of maintaining relationships with key government agencies should be being done by other staff officers, primarily ES, Homeland Security, and CD. 

[mikeylikey]

^ I agree! 

What exactly is behind this?  I must be slow on the uptake here, but what is so negative about being a CAP Captain working with legislatures, as opposed to a Lt Col??  Perhaps if we want to impress these elected officials, we should make the liaison a Colonel or General?? 

[ZigZag911]

In Nebraska, of course, should be a Nebraska Admiral!

[Wizard]

Easy, most Wing staff positions require that you put in quite a bit of work on a regular ongoing basis. 

Unless you've got a CAP specific bill in the Legislature and need to do a big lobbying effort, the only thing this person has to do is more or less keep in contact with key legislators and do a CAP day when they're in session.  Now, if you're a real go-getter you could probably keep real busy doing fund raising and grant writing as called for by 20-1, but my impression is that few are actually doing that.

The real work of maintaining relationships with key government agencies should be being done by other staff officers, primarily ES, Homeland Security, and CD. 

Lobbying is not simply a one day/one time event...it requires CONSTANT contact with decisionmakers.  The build-up to a "Legislative Day" takes months of meticulous planning and months of follow-up to insure CAP is presented in the best possible light.  Especially when the goal is a state budget line item for CAP and trying to restore almost $2 million in lost federal funding.  

Every Wing has its own legislative agenda and legislative priorities.  It is the responsibility of EVERY legislative liaison to push their congressional delegation for support of HR 1333 to get it out of committee.  But it's also the responsibility of the Wing Commanders to insure that their Liaisons are pushing the Legislative agenda.  The Wing CC/CV/CS and I are in constant if not daily communication.

[isuhawkeye]

Wizard has it 100% correct. 

As someone who works with lobbyists, legislatures, and the constant change of legislative session I have to say that if you are not engaged in this every day you will not have much of a chance to get anything accomplished. 

[RiverAux]

Yes, but every single Wing staff person probably should be working on CAP that often and they don't get a special rank appointment for doing their job like this one does.  Putting in an incentive for that person to also work on developing their own CAP knowledge can only help them in dealing with Legislators. 

Frankly, I think it would hurt CAP's relationship with these folks if they knew the Lt. Col. they're dealing with probably hasn't done what it takes for most CAP members to get that rank.  It could reinforce the proposition in some people's minds already that CAP is a bunch of wannabes. 

We make it so the one person having the most contact with what in many states are the people that ensure CAP's survival is the one that is most open to the charge of getting high rank without doing any work. 

That is why this proposal makes sense.  It limits the time we have a no-nothing Lt. Col. dealing with VIPs. 

[mikeylikey]

OR you can do what PAWG does and have your Wing employee an Executive Director who primarily spends many hours at the State legislature. 

Anyway, isn't the membership of a Wing that actually does the letter writing and calling to their legislators offices to get funding? 

This whole thing is silly.  These people should promote the same route every other CAP Officer does (other than those with advanced promotions for education and such). 

Seems to me that awarding Lt Col to the Wing Kings legislature rep/liaison is just like say, awarding Lt Col to the Wing Kings Friend?? 

[Wizard]

Yes, but every single Wing staff person probably should be working on CAP that often and they don't get a special rank appointment for doing their job like this one does.  Putting in an incentive for that person to also work on developing their own CAP knowledge can only help them in dealing with Legislators. 

Frankly, I think it would hurt CAP's relationship with these folks if they knew the Lt. Col. they're dealing with probably hasn't done what it takes for most CAP members to get that rank.  It could reinforce the proposition in some people's minds already that CAP is a bunch of wannabes. 

We make it so the one person having the most contact with what in many states are the people that ensure CAP's survival is the one that is most open to the charge of getting high rank without doing any work. 

That is why this proposal makes sense.  It limits the time we have a no-nothing Lt. Col. dealing with VIPs. 

RiverAux;

I think we're talking past one another instead of to one another...

First, with respect to your claim that it's a laid-back position...you have in fact conceded this claim as being demonstrably false in that you state "every single Wing staff person probably should be working on CAP that often"...which in fact was my initial qualm with your post...

But lets address the two issues which seem to be your hot button issues here:

A. The lack of advancement of liaisons in the organizations PME requirements

B.  Your personal disdain for promotion outside of duty-based/ PD driven promotion system

First, with respect to the lack of advancement, lets look at the professional development data for a moment.  We know for a fact that 13 officers, for whatever reason, are at Level I or unknown; 6 officers are at Level III, 7 officers at Level IV, and one has their Level V. I can say that one of those officers will have their Level IV in 2 weeks or so.  So we can safely say that a third of the officers (will) have the requisite PD for their grade. The question becomes why are the other 2/3rds not at their PD level for their rank (assuming theyre Lt. Cols, which isnt a safe assumption)?  Do they bring a particular skill set to bear for the position or are they as mikeyLikey asserts...the Wing King's friend?

In the case of those 18 officers, there is a "reason" why theyre in that particular billet and short for dismissing them for cause, they must be performing the task to the satisfaction of the wing Commander vis-a vis, the region commander, vis-a-vis the (interim)National commander and their respective designates in government Relations.  Is their lack of PD advancement an impedment to performing their tasks...That can only be evaluated in a case-by-case basis.  Would additional exposure to CAP PD enhance that?  Perhaps to a degree...but if they were brought in with significant experience outside of CAP...could they learn enough to articulate the mission and strengths of CAP..absolutely.

What concerns me is not the fact that we have 18 officers serving CAP that may not have the PD crendentials for their billet...it is the fact that we in turn have 25 wings withiout a CAP representative to argue passionately for things like HR 1333.   Especially in light of the former National Commander going in front of the House committee and looking like wishy washy waffler and in turn the staffer who drafted the legislation and a few of us trying to salvage this legislation for the benefit of the organization.

the real heart of the matter is that you have a significant disdain for any type of non-duty based promotionwhich colors your perception of the issue to the point of vitriol and disgust.  I have no problem setting Pd requirements on billets but like anything else the system needs to dynamic enough to accept that there will be individuals who meets the organizations needs and in turn merit consideration for accelerated advancement. 

I had a conversation today with my unit commander for my paying job, that they recruited someone that based on their experience and education will merit a direct commission to Major/ Lt. Col in the AF.  If our parent organization allows for this...why shouldnt we?

[mikeylikey]

I had a conversation today with my unit commander for my paying job, that they recruited someone that based on their experience and education will merit a direct commission to Major/ Lt. Col in the AF.  If our parent organization allows for this...why shouldn't we?

May I ask what this person does that the AF would consider Commissioning as a Major or Lt Col.  I have seen people come in to the military as a Major but they were all Doctors.  I have never seen someone come into the Service as a Lt Col.  If I am not mistaken a Direct Commission above Major requires Senate Approval. 

[Wizard]

I had a conversation today with my unit commander for my paying job, that they recruited someone that based on their experience and education will merit a direct commission to Major/ Lt. Col in the AF.  If our parent organization allows for this...why shouldn't we?

May I ask what this person does that the AF would consider Commissioning as a Major or Lt Col.  I have seen people come in to the military as a Major but they were all Doctors.  I have never seen someone come into the Service as a Lt Col.  If I am not mistaken a Direct Commission above Major requires Senate Approval. 

this was a Dentist

[RiverAux]

You're right, I don't favor any bypass of the standard CAP professional development and promotion program across the board however you're dramatically overstating how much sleep I've lost worrying over the issue.

Now, it wouldn't bother me terribly much if there were only a few of these folks around the country who hadn't caught up to their rank in the PD program.  As long this rank advancement opportunity exists, I don't begrudge its use and would expect that a few newbies to the position would still be working the program and might not have gotten very far yet.

However, the fact that almost half of them haven't done anything more than the guy who got his membership card last month does gall me.  It shows that the norm is for people appointed to this position to not participate in the PD program and I think that both sets a bad example for everybody else and risks making CAPs rank system look like a joke to VIPs.

Senator Hodge:  "Well, Lt. Col. Smith, I don't know much about CAP other than that you are civilian volunteers.  How did you become a Lt. Col.?"
Lt. Col. Smith:  Well, our Wing Commander needed someone to work with the Legislature so appointed me to the position and I got the Lt. Col. rank automatically."
Senator Hodge: "So, you didn't have to do any training or anything"
Lt. Col. Smith: "Nope."
Senator Hodge:  "Were you ever in the military?"
Lt. Col. Smith:  "Nope, in fact I'd only been in CAP a few months, but the Wing Commander and I go to the same church and had known each other for years".

See, with every other special appointment and promotion there is a rational reason behind it.  I may not agree with that reason or think that it is best for CAP, but it is understandable.  If I had to defend CAP from wannabe charges based on our special appointment system, I could do it with a straight face.  

However, this is the one exception to that rule.  We give them high rank to make the reps feel that they are talking to someone important and somewhat equal to their status despite the fact that the person may have done nothing to earn such respect, even by our minimal standards.  

Incidentally, I do agree with Wizard that this can be an important position and more of these slots should be filled with active members. 

[ZigZag911]

There are valid instances in which a CAP member has the background and experience to do his/her wing vast good as legislative liaison.

In those cases, I have no qualms about appointing someone to lt col.

However, when the regulation is abused for the sake of promoting "one of the gang", then I've got a problem with it.

Perhaps these appointments should need to be approved by Region CC, or even someone at National, who would review the candidate's resume, perhaps even conduct an interview.

Where there is accountability, there is far less monkey business!

[Wizard]

However, the fact that almost half of them haven't done anything more than the guy who got his membership card last month does gall me.  It shows that the norm is for people appointed to this position to not participate in the PD program and I think that both sets a bad example for everybody else and risks making CAPs rank system look like a joke to VIPs.

I'd wager that for those 18 officers, there are eighteen different reasons how and why they havent advanced in PD.  In all likelihood ECI-13 is probably the hurdle for most. If i had to guess...

Unless an officer pulls what the previous national commander did (in terms of their committee performance) there is very little room in these discussions or briefings for biographical chit-chat.  The expectation is that if you are taking one of these meetings especially with a Senator, the discussion is very formal and very direct.  " Sir, this is our legislative agenda, we would like you to help restore our federal funding."  They ask very pointed questions "what is the operational impact if we don't restore the funding" at which point you have very direct answers.  Frankly, if you are not on your "A" game...going into a meeting like that otherwise is instant death.

However, this is the one exception to that rule.  We give them high rank to make the reps feel that they are talking to someone important and somewhat equal to their status despite the fact that the person may have done nothing to earn such respect, even by our minimal standards.  

the way i see it...its very simple...that Liaison represents their Wing...if the performance is subpar, then they should be replaced...

And candidly, the best judge of that is not you or I or anyone else on this board...rather it would be the National Government Relations advisor manages the process from above with the region Legislative Liaisons.

[Wizard]

There are valid instances in which a CAP member has the background and experience to do his/her wing vast good as legislative liaison.

In those cases, I have no qualms about appointing someone to lt col.

Or a conditional promotion to Major after being interviewed by a panel comprised of the Wing Commander, Vice Commander, Chief of Staff, "current" Legislative Liaison,  and Homeland Security Liaison...then vetted by the Region CC.

[MajFitzpatrick]

But in all instances with promotion to a higher grade (which tops at Captain) It is because they bring something to CAP which is valued as an asset. Pilots, A&Ps, Prior Military experience and instating the grade they earned in the military (Which they needed to go through PME to Earn).
Medical Professionals and Chaplains don't have the same type command.

What you are proposing is we go hire a CAP lobbyist group, and put uniforms on them, and then lets sprinkle them with medals, and rank.

Here is the thing, Medals, Rank, etc. It says something, its says, look, I wear my career on my chest, and I climbed the ladder to get these shiny medal devices on my collar. If you negate that, you have really just told everyone that you don't have to work, you don't have to earn anything. We already have had that instance with one of our Two Stars, why would you push an already embarrassing and potentially devastating situation further?