Global War On Terrorism Civilian Medal

[mikeylikey]

An Air Force Civilian along with 11 other civilians were just awarded the first GWOT-C medal.  Anyone hear of this, or have any more info?  All they had was her picture on AF Portal, and the line "awarded to civilian employees who provide direct support to military operations. 

Does CAP do that?  I know of instances where CAP members provided direct support to military operations in support of the War on Terror. 

[wingnut]

it is a very strange situation, CAP pilots recieved Airmedals for combat in wwII. However,now. I think it is an institutionalized way of thinking with the DOD. Your right, but think about all of the CAP members killed in the line of duty. It is alot, yet for such a small force, we really don't pay them the Hommage that is due them. I think part of it is many of the deaths are as a result of an "accident" and so fault is laid on someone. Maybe when one of our crews gets shot down in the War on terror, or on a CD mission, then we may see some recognition.

[Eagle400]

The Air Force doesn't have the courtesy to even mention CAP in it's official report on Hurricane Katrina, so what makes anyone think they're going to award the GWOT-C Medal to CAP members?

[JohnKachenmeister]

I believe that all AF civilian medals are for civil service employees of the Air Force.

We have our own.

I'm not sure WHY we have a separate set of awards, since we once were authorized Air Medals and were awarded a battle streamer.  But we now DO have our own set of awards, and I don't see that as being subject to change.

[Pylon]

Even if the Air Force gave you an Air Medal or this GWOT-C medal, or heck - even that actual GWOT service medal or the NDSM for your service in CAP, CAPM 39-1 says you can't wear it on your uniform anyways.   

But Maj. K is right.  This is for their civilian employees; they have their own set of medals and awards.  CAP doesn't fit that category at all.

[mikeylikey]

^ So one has to earn a military decoration while in the military, to be allowed to wear it on the CAP uniform?  Lets say the NDSM is awarded to CAP for its contributed actions since 9-11 to those members who were members 1 year before and held continual membership until at least 2004.  So the AF writes the orders, and presents it to those individuals.  You are telling me, that 39-1 prohibits the wear of a military decoration awarded by competant authority.  What the heck is wrong with this picture?

Mike.....if you are still working on your re-write to 39-1, that needs addressed!  Also National Guard ribbons and awards need to be allowed to be worn on the AF-style uniforms as well.

[Pylon]

^ So one has to earn a military decoration while in the military, to be allowed to wear it on the CAP uniform?  Lets say the NDSM is awarded to CAP for its contributed actions since 9-11 to those members who were members 1 year before and held continual membership until at least 2004.  So the AF writes the orders, and presents it to those individuals.  You are telling me, that 39-1 prohibits the wear of a military decoration awarded by competant authority.  What the heck is wrong with this picture?

Yes, if the AF awards a decoration to a CAP member for their CAP service... say, an Air Medal, or the SAEMR, or Humanitarian Service or whatever a CAP member cannot wear it on their CAP uniforms, including AF-style uniforms.  Even if it is awarded in writing by competent authority.

There's wording that requires you have earned the decorations while serving in the Armed Forces in order to wear them.  Those CAP members from WWII who got the Air Medals?  Can't wear 'em.  If any of them are still in these days, I hope somebody from NHQ sent them a memo telling them to take 'em off and leave in the shadowbox.

Mike.....if you are still working on your re-write to 39-1, that needs addressed!  Also National Guard ribbons and awards need to be allowed to be worn on the AF-style uniforms as well.

All of this will be looked at, particularly because of the absurd-type of situations mentioned above.

[arajca]

As pointed out on the Cadet Weapons Qualification Medal thread, CAPM 39-1 does not restrict the wear of military awards to those receiving them while serving. CAPR 39-3 does.

[RiverAux]

Pylon, you're forgetting the other regulation which doesn't have the restriction saying that the military award has to be earned while in military service. 

[Hawk200]

Pylon, you're forgetting the other regulation which doesn't have the restriction saying that the military award has to be earned while in military service. 

That really doesn't matter. If one of CAP's pubs says it's required, then it's required. Deciding to ignore one reg because it doesn't suit opinion is a serious lack of integrity.

That being said, I agree that it should not be a requirement. Service is service, and any military award should be recognized if it was awarded for the same accomplishments that a military member would receive it for.

The pubs themselves should be changed. It looks like serious crap when a CAP member isn't allowed to wear a mil dec that they received outside of military service.

[RiverAux]

No, it is not a breach of integrity.  The uniform manual says you can wear them if properly awarded and does not restrict it just to those earned while in the service.  The uniform manual is supposed to be the only regulation that matters in regards to uniform wear and is also more current than the awards manual, so it trumps the other one in my book. 

CAPM 39-1

COMPLIANCE WITH
THIS PUBLICATION IS MANDATORY. Any variation from this publication is not authorized.

5-4. Military Service Awards. Military service ribbons may be worn on the CAP AF-style uniform provided they were awarded in writing by competent military authority.

[JohnKachenmeister]

OK, FLAME ON:

I KNOW some of you dedicated "We're only a civilian corporation" guys will get your panties in a bunch over this post, but I cannot resist.

CAP, when activated in a Federal role is, BY LAW, acting as an "Auxiliary of the United States Air Force."  For all purposes, again by law, CAP is, as an Auxiliary of the USAF, an "Instrumentality of the United States."

Therefore, when activated into Federal service, I contend that CAP is, in law and in fact, a part of the United States Air Force. 

The US Air Force is generally considered by most informed people to be an armed service of the US.  Service in an Auxiliary of that same US Air Force, performing a mission designated by the President for the US Air Force funded and supervised by the US Air Force, is "Service performed in any branch of the Armed Forces..." and therefore a medal or award given by competent military authority for such service meets the criteria set in CAPR 39-3, Section A, Paragraph 3b.

I'm not a lawyer, but I stayed at a Holiday Inn Express last night.

 

[RiverAux]

Just to get back to the original post -- I can't seem to find a citation documenting a civilian version of this medal or anything about who is eligible.  Anyone got one? 

[afgeo4]

Were these civilian employees agents of the AFOSI? If so, what they do and what we do are COMPLETELY different things.

These "civilian" agents are out in southwest asia... armed and in combat zones, investigating crimes against our military and government interests. It isn't a safe job by any measure.

[afgeo4]

OK, FLAME ON:

I KNOW some of you dedicated "We're only a civilian corporation" guys will get your panties in a bunch over this post, but I cannot resist.

CAP, when activated in a Federal role is, BY LAW, acting as an "Auxiliary of the United States Air Force."  For all purposes, again by law, CAP is, as an Auxiliary of the USAF, an "Instrumentality of the United States."

Therefore, when activated into Federal service, I contend that CAP is, in law and in fact, a part of the United States Air Force. 

The US Air Force is generally considered by most informed people to be an armed service of the US.  Service in an Auxiliary of that same US Air Force, performing a mission designated by the President for the US Air Force funded and supervised by the US Air Force, is "Service performed in any branch of the Armed Forces..." and therefore a medal or award given by competent military authority for such service meets the criteria set in CAPR 39-3, Section A, Paragraph 3b.

I'm not a lawyer, but I stayed at a Holiday Inn Express last night.

 

You could say the same thing about any other DoD civilian or even an AAFES employees... and they get deployed!

[Pylon]

OK, FLAME ON:

I KNOW some of you dedicated "We're only a civilian corporation" guys will get your panties in a bunch over this post, but I cannot resist.

CAP, when activated in a Federal role is, BY LAW, acting as an "Auxiliary of the United States Air Force."  For all purposes, again by law, CAP is, as an Auxiliary of the USAF, an "Instrumentality of the United States."

Therefore, when activated into Federal service, I contend that CAP is, in law and in fact, a part of the United States Air Force. 

The US Air Force is generally considered by most informed people to be an armed service of the US.  Service in an Auxiliary of that same US Air Force, performing a mission designated by the President for the US Air Force funded and supervised by the US Air Force, is "Service performed in any branch of the Armed Forces..." and therefore a medal or award given by competent military authority for such service meets the criteria set in CAPR 39-3, Section A, Paragraph 3b.

I'm not a lawyer, but I stayed at a Holiday Inn Express last night.

 

It's not just the "civilian corporation" guys whose panties will likely get in a bunch.  To suggest that being on a CAP AFAM means we are technically "service performed in...the Armed Forces" is pretty far fetched.  I never thought anybody would argue that.

[RiverAux]

I wouldn't even go so far as to say we are equivalent to AF members when on an AFAM.  We should be eligible for any AF awards that can be granted to civilians, but thats it. 

[mikeylikey]

^ For death benefits we are equivalent to a GS-9??  Not even sure what that translates into the new civilian pay grade scales.

[Hawk200]

No, it is not a breach of integrity.  The uniform manual says you can wear them if properly awarded and does not restrict it just to those earned while in the service.  The uniform manual is supposed to be the only regulation that matters in regards to uniform wear and is also more current than the awards manual, so it trumps the other one in my book. 

CAPM 39-1

COMPLIANCE WITH
THIS PUBLICATION IS MANDATORY. Any variation from this publication is not authorized.

5-4. Military Service Awards. Military service ribbons may be worn on the CAP AF-style uniform provided they were awarded in writing by competent military authority.

The uniform manual covers wear, not eligibility for wear. Two different subjects.

I don't agree with the 39-3 either, but it's still a standing order regardless of opinion. Choosing to obey one, and ignoring the other is an integrity issue. If we disagree, we should get the pub changed, not ignore it.

It can be easily reasoned that if you ignore one publication, you will ignore others. Even if you don't, that thought will always be in people's minds. Best to avoid giving people the impression in the first place.

[RiverAux]

I have argued in many threads here that CAP does need to resolve this discrepancy in the regulations, and on that we can agree.