Awards not in 39-1 6-5

[Abn90]

Just heard back from NHQ:  CAPM 39-1 does not mention the jump wings specifically because it considers them Aeronautical Badges, as per Table 6-5 #1.  It was explained that this was due to AFI 11-402, which at the time of writing, included the USAF's issuance of the jump wings as an Aeronautical Badge.

It was further explained that this should be remedied in the new CAPM, once published, but that jump wings were, indeed, authorized for wear.

So, there it is.  Thanks to all who responded!

[floridacyclist]

That's good to know....hoping to have a good reason to buy a set of blue and white jump wings for my 18yo...he should find out soon if he was selected or not

[Dragoon]

I wish him luck.  Tell him to start working on his pull-ups now.  And keep his feet and knees together!

[Fifinella]

Just heard back from NHQ:  CAPM 39-1 does not mention the jump wings specifically because it considers them Aeronautical Badges, as per Table 6-5 #1.  It was explained that this was due to AFI 11-402, which at the time of writing, included the USAF's issuance of the jump wings as an Aeronautical Badge.

It was further explained that this should be remedied in the new CAPM, once published, but that jump wings were, indeed, authorized for wear.

So, there it is.  Thanks to all who responded!

Ah!  Now it all makes sense.  Thanks for the info.  Much appreciated.

[tkelley004]

39-1 needs work.  The Army Combat Infantry Badge and Combat Medical Badge are both authorized, but the Combat Action Badge is not listed.

Why don't you add this under the thread worked elsewhere on this board about ambiguities in 39-1?

CAB is a recent invention of the Army. I believe it just came to being in the past year or two. 39-1 needs revision every 6 months, if not from our changes, from the other services' changes.

I would not count on seeing the CAB authorized on the Air Force uniform. Active Duty Air Force folks, serving with the Army have been awarded them by the Army and told "Sorry, can't wear it, not authorized on the Air Force uniform....."

[Gunner C]

IMO a major problem in the 39-1 is the lack of an order of precedence for badges.  There is a "hint" of one, but it's not accurate and flies in the face of military tradition.  For instance, the CIB is regarded as the highest military badge (excepting chaplain stuff) but the 39-1 hints that it is worn below aviation badges.  That would also hint that it is worn below jump wings not to mention CAP wings.  This is why most former military with a CIB/CMB don't wear theirs - it's rather silly to think that a private pilot's experience trumps close combat with an opposing armed military force.

What's the rationale behind the CIB being the highest?  The entire military (minus the strategic forces) is built around the infantryman engaging the enemy, gaining and holding ground. 

GC

The CIB has precedence for the Army, and Army only over all other sill badges.  (Except chaplain.)

You are referring to an Army philosophy of combat operations.  In the Army, many of their docterines do focus on the infantry holding ground.   (Thus they have the CIB as a Category/Group 1 badge, which takes precedence over the Category/Group 3 badges, which contain the aviation related.)

Other services do not award a CIB.  The Air Force allows it's wear, but it views (for obvious reasons) that aviation related badges are of higher precedence.

Thus, following the USAF traditions, as we often do, aviation badges take precedence over the CIB. 

And, FYI - the entire military is not built around the infantryman engaging the enemy, gaining and holding ground.  History (even recent times) shows that we have had many wars fought where land warfare was irrelevant.

You should take Air Command and Staff College or the Air War College.  The senior service schools would beg to differ.  In the 1960s I ran into two officers who were navigators with CIBs.  They had been in the infantry in WW2 and came over to the Air Force as aviation cadets during Korea.  They wore their CIBs above their Nav wings.  I asked them about the order (I was a cadet and was always noticing things like this).  They told me what I said above.  Back in those days, there were a lot more folks who had been enlisted in one service and became officers in another.  Times change.

Come to think of it, I met an AF capt who had been a CWO2 in the Army.  He was a helo pilot, went over to the AF and became a BUFF pilot.  When he wanted to piss off the AF, he'd wear his Army wings. 

GC

[Gunner C]

Just heard back from NHQ:  CAPM 39-1 does not mention the jump wings specifically because it considers them Aeronautical Badges, as per Table 6-5 #1.  It was explained that this was due to AFI 11-402, which at the time of writing, included the USAF's issuance of the jump wings as an Aeronautical Badge.

It was further explained that this should be remedied in the new CAPM, once published, but that jump wings were, indeed, authorized for wear.

So, there it is.  Thanks to all who responded!

So jump wings, on a CAP uniform, are worn above a CIB?  Wierd. 

GC

[afgeo4]

I think I read that badges from other services (specifically the Army) are not allowed to be worn on the new ABU's? 

Hope thats not true.

Sorry, it is true. Currently only USAF badges are authorized for wear on the ABU. However, the parachutist badge is authorized as it is not an Army badge, but a military one. The badge is issued to most combat airmen including PJs, TCCs, TACPs, CWs and now many Red Horse CEs and SFs are getting them (if they go to airborne school of course).  All three levels of the parachutist badge are authorized as well as the HALO badge. No clue on the scuba diver one.

[mikeylikey]

^ Got it, but the Army institute of heraldry says the parachutist badge is wholly an Army device.  I have no problem sharing it with the AF, as many AF peeps were some of the founders of the badge back in old WW2. 

I am just puzzled why things like the ranger tab and other "Army" badges are not allowed on the AF uniform.  I always thought the AF should bring back SSI for individuals assigned to combat.  I mean they are reinventing a uniform with the reasoning being "historical this and that", well the badges and patches are just as historical as the cut of the jacket, right?!?!

[brasda91]

I remember back several years ago, a SM wearing his "Ranger" tab above his wing patch.  He said he could wear it just the same as my CIB and jump wings.

[mikeylikey]

^ Yeah, that I am sure is a no-go.  The AF doesn't even wear earned Ranger Tabs.  Now, that doesn't mean CAP shouldn't (as we are not the AF).  It would show who really is a ranger and who really "went to Hawk MTN".

[jb512]

39-1 needs work.  The Army Combat Infantry Badge and Combat Medical Badge are both authorized, but the Combat Action Badge is not listed.

Why don't you add this under the thread worked elsewhere on this board about ambiguities in 39-1?

CAB is a recent invention of the Army. I believe it just came to being in the past year or two. 39-1 needs revision every 6 months, if not from our changes, from the other services' changes.

I would not count on seeing the CAB authorized on the Air Force uniform. Active Duty Air Force folks, serving with the Army have been awarded them by the Army and told "Sorry, can't wear it, not authorized on the Air Force uniform....."

That would kinda make sense, because the AF created a medal equivalent to the CAB:

http://www.af.mil/news/story.asp?id=123048140

[jb512]

I think I see an AF Lieutenant with a ranger tab on his uniform......  Download the full image:

http://www.kirtland.af.mil/news/story.asp?id=123041597

I say if it's authorized for an AF uniform, then it should be authorized for AF uniforms worn as CAP uniforms.

[TankerT]

You should take Air Command and Staff College or the Air War College.  The senior service schools would beg to differ. 

BTDT

[mikeylikey]

I think I see an AF Lieutenant with a ranger tab on his uniform......  Download the full image:

http://www.kirtland.af.mil/news/story.asp?id=123041597

I say if it's authorized for an AF uniform, then it should be authorized for AF uniforms worn as CAP uniforms.

Ya I think he is doing what he shouldn't be doing.  I may be way off though, so please AF types, chime in anytime!  Stonewall??  Anyone???

[DNall]

When perm assigned & attached to Army units they can wear army stuff, like tabs, badges, etc. As in TACP. When assigned back to AF unit or at an AF school for more than 180 days then back to the standard AF rules. Doubtful this LT is in such a position.

[arajca]

I think it's interesting that the same folks who critize others for not following regs to the letter, sometimes unintentially, will knowingly violate CAPM 39-1 because "it should be authorized" or "I earned it". Following their logic, I should wear my military awards on my corporate uniforms since I earned them, right?

[mikeylikey]

I think it's interesting that the same folks who critize others for not following regs to the letter, sometimes unintentially, will knowingly violate CAPM 39-1 because "it should be authorized" or "I earned it". Following their logic, I should wear my military awards on my corporate uniforms since I earned them, right?

That is a hotbed on debate.  While the corporates are specificaly not a military uniform (reasoning used by NHQ, not me) Federal LAw states that awards and ribbons can be worn on such civilian dress at the prior-service members expense. 

[JayT]

I think that the best thing would CAP to have conformed to the Air Force standards for the location of Wing and Squadron patches for the BDU's, which could have let our guys with prior service wear their Army/Navy/whatever bling (because that's critically important to our operations in CAP.)

But since the Air Force is going over to the ABU, I say we get ride of all wing patches, the American flag patch, the ES patch, NCSA patches, everything except grade insignia, nametape, and service tape.

[Trung Si Ma]

I remember back several years ago, a SM wearing his "Ranger" tab above his wing patch.  He said he could wear it just the same as my CIB and jump wings.

We did that in MIWG back in the 70's.  Those of us who were active duty / reserve jumpers also wore a blue and white AIRBORNE tab over the wing patch.   Looked good, but was never legal.  Back then, my CAP uniform looked an awful lot like my Army one except one had subdued insignia and the other one looked like the Sunday paper.