IC Badge

[SDF_Specialist]

Rumor has it that there's now an Incident Commander badge out. Has anyone seen this? I've contacted Vanguard to see if they have it, but I've gotten no response. Also, has anyone seen the IT badge?

[AlphaSigOU]

Both have been authorized, but don't hold yer breath waiting for Vanguard to ramp up production.

[SDF_Specialist]

Vanguard seems to be responsible for a lot of deaths these days. I mean, with everyone holding their breath and all. You would think that before the release of the statement that there are badges, they would have started a mass production rather than having a hugh back log of these. Then again, what do I know about business management.

[arajca]

Not only have I seen the IT basic, I have one. 

[James Shaw]

I have attached the design for the new IC badge. It was approved by the NB in April in Washington. Before anyone gets upset about the wings they were formatted after the Glider Style not the Air Assault. The wings curled means they are ready at a moments notice. I have also included the DDR design that they are supposed to be making. Havent received word on their production.

[James]

can anyone post a picture?

[James Shaw]

can anyone post a picture?

Yes when you do a reply select additional options and follow the directions.

[SDF_Specialist]

I have attached the design for the new IC badge. It was approved by the NB in April in Washington. Before anyone gets upset about the wings they were formatted after the Glider Style not the Air Assault. The wings curled means they are ready at a moments notice. I have also included the DDR design that they are supposed to be making. Havent received word on their production.

Man, those are nice! Now I wonder who will train as IC just to get one?

[Hawk200]

I have attached the design for the new IC badge. It was approved by the NB in April in Washington. Before anyone gets upset about the wings they were formatted after the Glider Style not the Air Assault. The wings curled means they are ready at a moments notice. I have also included the DDR design that they are supposed to be making. Havent received word on their production.

Man, those are nice! Now I wonder who will train as IC just to get one?

Planning on training for IC anyway, but it would be a cool badge to have. Especially under a set of wings.

[DHollywood]

Its not air assault wings they stole, its Army Jump Wings they stole.

Why couldn't they just use the same format they used for GT and EMT - worked for them....

The first person that confuses my jump wings with that POS is gonna get an earful for sure   .....

I have the highest regard for IC's and know the hoops and hurdles they must get through to become an IC.  So give them an original skill badge that reflects the job instead of modified parachute wings....

Some Leg somewhere came up with this one....

[Hawk200]

Its not air assault wings they stole, its Army Jump Wings they stole.

Why couldn't they just use the same format they used for GT and EMT - worked for them....

The first person that confuses my jump wings with that POS is gonna get an earful for sure   .....

I have the highest regard for IC's and know the hoops and hurdles they must get through to become an IC.  So give them an original skill badge that reflects the job instead of modified parachute wings....

Some Leg somewhere came up with this one....

They started working using a glider badge as it is no longer awarded. The furled wings are virtually identical. Even a lot of the US military has badges that were copied from other countries designs, or else revamped outdated designs.

I doubt that many people will confuse your jump wings with it anyway. One has a disc in the middle, the other has a shroud and lines. Pretty obvious difference, unless the person is extremely ignorant of military insignia. Which happens on occasion, but most of the people we deal with really don't care about our badges and wings.

[James Shaw]

Its not air assault wings they stole, its Army Jump Wings they stole.

The first person that confuses my jump wings with that POS is gonna get an earful for sure   .....

I have the highest regard for IC's and know the hoops and hurdles they must get through to become an IC.  So give them an original skill badge that reflects the job instead of modified parachute wings....

Some Leg somewhere came up with this one....

Check your history first DHollywood this style was used for the WWII Glider Pilots before they were used for the Army Jump Wings.  Just because they were also used for the jump wings doesnt mean they cant be used somewhere else. They were chosen because of their historical significance I should know I designed them. This is not as you put it a "POS" and I seriously doubt anyone would get the two confused. These designs are not just thrown together they are researched and submitted and have to be approved. Then they have to go though the Air Force for final approval.

I applaud you for the service but that doesnt mean you should bash the work of others and get personal.

[Pylon]

I still don't get the use of the curled wings.  Even if they were used in WWII glider wings, those wings still represented a flight activity.  Air Assault and jump wings both represent flight activities. 

Every non-flight activity badge I have ever seen uses the wreath of laurel and it's been just fine.  I think that nobody is going to see the furled wings and mentally associate that with "always ready" - I think they're going to ask if they fly or jump or participate in some other flight-related duty or activity.

The wreath of laurel works for CAP's other badges... Legal... EMT... Ground Team...  and works for practically all of the USAF's AFSC badges (that don't involve flight)... and works for some Army non-flight-related badges (like EOD, Combat Medic, etc.). 

The furled feathers, however, I have not yet seen in use on any badge that didn't some how involve flight or moving through the air.

Just my honest and candid opinion.  I know they're approved and it's a done deal, so I guess it's a little late anyways.


One question on the DDR badge.  Was it intentional for the "faces" to mimick the Girls Scouts logo?

[SDF_Specialist]

If Air Ops has to report to the IC, isn't that a flight activity? I applaud the design of the IC badge. It has everything that distinguishes CAP, and should never be confused with other branches just because it resembles another badge. That is, as long as the accuser is paying attention to the detail.

[Trung Si Ma]

Check your history first DHollywood this style was used for the WWII Glider Pilots before they were used for the Army Jump Wings. 

Sir,

Jump wings came first.

US Army jump wings authorized on 10 Mar 41 (http://www.qmfound.com/parachute_badge.htm) , the Army glider badge was authorized on 2 Jun 44 (http://www.qmmuseum.lee.army.mil/airborne/glider_badge.htm), and the Air Assault Badge was authorized for Army wide wear in 1978 (prior to this it was a 101st only badge that you could not (legally) wear anywhere outside of the 101st).

Don
Master Para Badge
Air Assault Badge

[MIKE]

And let me reiterate that the Glider Badge was for glider borne troops... Not glider pilots, which got wings with a "G" on them.

[Major Carrales]

Many people associate IC with ground team work, but it is really ground team and flight ops.

The New IC device might best be serivced by the "laruels," but I think there was no way to express both Gound and Air resources short of making some reference to "ADMINISTRATION" type insignia.

[DHollywood]

Its not air assault wings they stole, its Army Jump Wings they stole.

The first person that confuses my jump wings with that POS is gonna get an earful for sure   .....

I have the highest regard for IC's and know the hoops and hurdles they must get through to become an IC.  So give them an original skill badge that reflects the job instead of modified parachute wings....

Some Leg somewhere came up with this one....

Check your history first DHollywood this style was used for the WWII Glider Pilots before they were used for the Army Jump Wings.  Just because they were also used for the jump wings doesnt mean they cant be used somewhere else. They were chosen because of their historical significance I should know I designed them. This is not as you put it a "POS" and I seriously doubt anyone would get the two confused. These designs are not just thrown together they are researched and submitted and have to be approved. Then they have to go though the Air Force for final approval.

I applaud you for the service but that doesnt mean you should bash the work of others and get personal.

As was pointed out to you already, your history is incorrect and jump wings came first - and glider wings ARE jump wings - those brave soldiers were above all else Paratroopers.  My grandfather was one.

Bashing the work of others?  You basically COPIED a previously existing design with a small modification.  You copied an insignia that already has great meaning to soldiers past, present and future.

The GT badge at least has some original design to it.  You could just as easily slapped that little circle design on top of a GT badge and it would have been just fine.

Besides, we all know the real badge of an IC is Master Pilot OR Observer wings worn together with Master GT badge below the wings.  



IMHAO

No offense to your efforts sir.

[Major Carrales]

Besides, we all know the real badge of an IC is Master Pilot OR Observer wings worn together with Master GT badge below the wings. 

I am slackjawed, what you have said, Sir, speaks of such logic...I doubt it will be anything but misunderstood here.

Kudos...that is the most truthful thing I have read here in a long time.

[James Shaw]

I will yield on the dates for the wings. The dates are not the point. The point is that  these designs are not just thrown together or stolen. I have seen the same furled wings on many badges and they cant ALL be original. So does that mean they were ALL stolen. Heraldry takes elements from different things and puts them together to symbolize that individual effort or person.

There was a design that involved a laurel wreath close to the GT Badge that was turned down by the group because it was said it "looked like a Christmas Tree Ornament". I know this as well because I submitted that design as well. I am a MO/MS and CD MO/MS and hold the IC's with great regard as well.

On the subject of the DDR Badge design. The concept behind the heads is the same as the Girls Scout which just represents diversity of students. It is the same concept but the image was from a general clipart catalog I have.

Any of the people who have submitted these type of designs spend alot of time doing this. We dont steal anything from other designs. I personally research the intent behind the badge and then start my design from there. If I have used an element of a previous design than it is noted and explained for the people who make the final decision. I do this so that there is no room for misinterpretation of my intent.

As with anything else you cant make everyone happy. I enjoy the work that I do with and for CAP and do a pretty good job at it and it makes me happy.

[LtCol White]

I will yield on the dates for the wings. The dates are not the point. The point is that  these designs are not just thrown together or stolen. I have seen the same furled wings on many badges and they cant ALL be original. So does that mean they were ALL stolen. Heraldry takes elements from different things and puts them together to symbolize that individual effort or person.

There was a design that involved a laurel wreath close to the GT Badge that was turned down by the group because it was said it "looked like a Christmas Tree Ornament". I know this as well because I submitted that design as well. I am a MO/MS and CD MO/MS and hold the IC's with great regard as well.

On the subject of the DDR Badge design. The concept behind the heads is the same as the Girls Scout which just represents diversity of students. It is the same concept but the image was from a general clipart catalog I have.

Any of the people who have submitted these type of designs spend alot of time doing this. We dont steal anything from other designs. I personally research the intent behind the badge and then start my design from there. If I have used an element of a previous design than it is noted and explained for the people who make the final decision. I do this so that there is no room for misinterpretation of my intent.

As with anything else you cant make everyone happy. I enjoy the work that I do with and for CAP and do a pretty good job at it and it makes me happy.

I think your badges look pretty good. Especially the IC badge. When its made, will it have a color enamel center or will that be silver metal?

[SDF_Specialist]

I will yield on the dates for the wings. The dates are not the point. The point is that  these designs are not just thrown together or stolen. I have seen the same furled wings on many badges and they cant ALL be original. So does that mean they were ALL stolen. Heraldry takes elements from different things and puts them together to symbolize that individual effort or person.

There was a design that involved a laurel wreath close to the GT Badge that was turned down by the group because it was said it "looked like a Christmas Tree Ornament". I know this as well because I submitted that design as well. I am a MO/MS and CD MO/MS and hold the IC's with great regard as well.

On the subject of the DDR Badge design. The concept behind the heads is the same as the Girls Scout which just represents diversity of students. It is the same concept but the image was from a general clipart catalog I have.

Any of the people who have submitted these type of designs spend alot of time doing this. We dont steal anything from other designs. I personally research the intent behind the badge and then start my design from there. If I have used an element of a previous design than it is noted and explained for the people who make the final decision. I do this so that there is no room for misinterpretation of my intent.

As with anything else you cant make everyone happy. I enjoy the work that I do with and for CAP and do a pretty good job at it and it makes me happy.

I think your badges look pretty good. Especially the IC badge. When its made, will it have a color enamel center or will that be silver metal?

I would assume so, but Vanguard has been known to throw curve balls now and again

[LtCol White]

No offense but my question was directed to caphistorian since he is the one who designed the badge

[SDF_Specialist]

No offense but my question was directed to caphistorian since he is the one who designed the badge

My apologies sir. No offense taken unless meant

[James Shaw]

The badge will be all metal it will not have any color. That is as far as I know. Then again Vanguard may change that.

[Trung Si Ma]

Personally, I have no axe to grind on any of the badges that you've designed.  There was bound to be "A" badge for IC's, and your design is as good as any that I saw.  An all metal badge the size of the novice parachutist badge is just about right to say "I'm qualified" without saying "HEY! LOOK AT ME!"

[Al Sayre]

Here is my $.02 fwiw.  If you think of the furled wings as belonging to those who fly but do their main operations on the ground.  Then they are also fitting for the IC who must be either a Mission Pilot or Observer, but performs his primary operational function on the ground, leading the mission.

[O-Rex]

Here is my $.02 fwiw.  If you think of the furled wings as belonging to those who fly but do their main operations on the ground.  Then they are also fitting for the IC who must be either a Mission Pilot or Observer, but performs his primary operational function on the ground, leading the mission.

If you are saying that in order to be an IC, you must have been (at one time) an MP or MO, then you're right on the money, because you do: check the prerequisite sqtr's, can't remember if it was Ops or Planning Section Chief, but it was in there.

[SJFedor]

Here is my $.02 fwiw.  If you think of the furled wings as belonging to those who fly but do their main operations on the ground.  Then they are also fitting for the IC who must be either a Mission Pilot or Observer, but performs his primary operational function on the ground, leading the mission.

If you are saying that in order to be an IC, you must have been (at one time) an MP or MO, then you're right on the money, because you do: check the prerequisite sqtr's, can't remember if it was Ops or Planning Section Chief, but it was in there.

Kinda sorta, not MP/MO, just MS.


Those who do PSC on the basis of AOBD qualification must have, at one time, been qual'ed as a GTM3 or UDF member. Those doing it on the basis of GBD qualifications must have, at one time, been qual'ed as an MS.

[O-Rex]

It's a pretty nifty-looking badge.  Hope they don't do it up in full-color: I'm not a big fan of enameled badges-they're gaudy.

Basic Badge is IC3, senior is IC2, and master IC1, right?

[Hill CAP]

The reason no one has seen the DDR Badge yet is the first run that VG Did the badge was to large and the colors where off.

No word on when the corrected version will be released.

[Pylon]

I'm not a big fan of enameled badges-they're gaudy.

Maybe recent attempts at enameled badges, but back in the day, they could be absolutely stunning:

[cnitas]

Enamel (when done right) is a good thing:
http://www.marksmedals.com/romanian_medals_files/order_of_the_crown.html

[O-Rex]

Wow, tough crowd......

Please let me clarify: CAP enameled badges are gaudy.  However, the new IT badge is kind of cool-the designer was my old Group Commander.

Most enameled awards (i.e., medals) are nice: ever seen the U.S. Legion of Merit that is awarded to Foreign VIP's? (incidentally, it's the only U.S medal that is awarded to different "classes" of recipients, but Americans get the standard award.)

The coolest enameled foreign award is the British Order of St. George, which if I recall the pendant was actually an enameled "action figure" of St. George slaying a dragon on a pendant ( ! )  I saw it in an old picture book my old man had of medals and awards when I was a kid.

If any of you "Googlesters" can find it, please post.

Back to the IC badge:  I'm sure it will get curious stares from RM-types: "What the heck is that?"

[Pylon]

Enamel (when done right) is a good thing:
http://www.marksmedals.com/romanian_medals_files/order_of_the_crown.html

That's a gorgeous medal!

[Pylon]

Wow, tough crowd......

Please let me clarify: CAP enameled badges are gaudy.  However, the new IT badge is kind of cool-the designer was my old Group Commander.

We're just joking.  I am well aware that most CAP badges involving enamel (and pretty much all CAP medals) are fairly busted looking.  I was just pointing out that, as a rule, enamel ≠ bad.  (But on specialty badges?  Probably.  In CAP?  Especially!  )

The coolest enameled foreign award is the British Order of St. George, which if I recall the pendant was actually an enameled "action figure" of St. George slaying a dragon on a pendant ( ! )  I saw it in an old picture book my old man had of medals and awards when I was a kid.

England and GB has some awesome medal designs, as well.  I think you're speaking of the Companion Grade of The Most Distinguished Order of St Michael & St George (which is a pretty cool medal):

[O-Rex]

There's different levels of the St. George Award:  Knights of the order wore a pendant on a chain.

Perhaps this has changed: I saw this book when I was a kid (early 70's) and even then, the book was old.

A cool one is the order of the Garter: the ceremonial award of which is an actual garter (styled after those used in the 1500's) worn strapped to the arm, with the inscription "honi soit qui mal y pense" (evil to him who thinks evil.)  This is the "flagship" order in Britain, of which the Queen is a member.

The origin was from a British Royal Ball, in which a garter was found on the ballroom floor (this would be the equivalent of finding a pair or panties or bra today) folks laughed, and one knight picked it up, tied it to his arm, and made the above quote, so the story goes...

[AlphaSigOU]

A cool one is the order of the Garter: the ceremonial award of which is an actual garter (styled after those used in the 1500's) worn strapped to the arm, with the inscription "honi soit qui mal y pense" (evil to him who thinks evil.)  This is the "flagship" order in Britain, of which the Queen is a member.

The accepted translation is 'shamed be he who thinks evil of it'

Our favorite fictional British secret agent, James Bond is a Companion of the Order of St. Michael and St. George. At the end of Ian Fleming's The Man With The Golden Gun (the book, not the movie) he's offered a knighthood by making him a Knight Companion of the Order of St. Michael and St. George (or in the quaint phonetic spelling of the telegram from M, 'adding a 'Katie' to his Charlie Mike George'. Bond turns down M's offer.

[mdickinson]

The metal IC badges and DDR badge are now available on the Vanguard web site.  It appears the cloth versions of the IC badge are not available yet.

http://www.vanguardmil.com/store/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=6_390_412_413&items_per_page=40&sort=20a&page=2


Not sure what happened to the IT badges...

[afgeo4]

oh great... another badge with silly little stars that never get pinned on right and break off very quickly.

[LtCol Hooligan]

I was attempting to navigate Vanguards site today and found the metal IC badges.  Anyone know if there are cloth ones available yet?

[JohnKachenmeister]

Not as of the last time anyone in my Group checked, which was about a month ago.

[Al Sayre]

I emailed them about it a couple of months ago, they haven't seen fit to give me the courtesy of a reply...

[TankerT]

I emailed them about it a couple of months ago, they haven't seen fit to give me the courtesy of a reply...

If you call the 800 number (the one for the Virginia location) ask for the folks that work with the Civil Air Patrol.  You normally don't have to wait on hold for very long, and they will be happy to answer your questions.  They really are nice people that are trying hard. 

E-mail has been hit and miss.  But, part of that could be an internal routing issue.

[DNall]

Does it matter that they called me yesterday to say they were going thru their records & found an invoice they didn't charge me for & tried to do so, despite the fact that they charged me for it five times in the first place & big ole hassle to get my money back never got any order... those are the trying hard folks you're talking about?

[mikeylikey]

^ Man......thats a bummer.  I hope your response was "Vanguard what?"

[DNall]

Little less repeatable then that. Yet to call them back yet, but USAA blocked it. I do like USAA. If you can figure out how to let them deal with our orders I'll be quite happy.

[SSgt Rudin]

I was attempting to navigate Vanguards site today and found the metal IC badges.  Anyone know if there are cloth ones available yet?

I haven't seen it available yet, I think it falls into the same category as the 3 tier EMT badge: metal available; cloth in R/D.

[mikeylikey]

Little less repeatable then that. Yet to call them back yet, but USAA blocked it. I do like USAA. If you can figure out how to let them deal with our orders I'll be quite happy.

Off topic but, USAA rocks!  I have used them for almost eight years and have never once been disappointed.  USAA are one of the few military banks/ Insurance companies that will send a rep to a unit to discuss deployment financials.

I highly reccomend everyone in the military to check them out.  There was talk about 5 years ago to get CAP partnered with them.  I do believe Texas Wing was doing the lead on that one.  I was very hopefull.

[DNall]

That would be a VERY good benefit for CAP members. Their auto ins rocks too.

[KyCAP]

Where does one find the definition (requirements) for BASIC, Senior and Master ratings for the IC badge?

[Short Field]

CAP/CC Letter, Change to CAPM 39-1, 25 Jan 2008

e. Incident Commander Badge. Effective 10 July 2007, a three level specialty
insignia was approved for those members qualifying as Incident Commanders under
CAPR 60-3. The senior badge is worn by members earning the IC-2 rating and the
master badge by those earning the IC-1 rating. The badge is worn in the same position
as the Ground Team Badge and other specialty insignia.

[KyCAP]

Thanks.  I spent a good hour rummaging around through board meeting minutes, and other notes and couldn't find it.

[bosshawk]

Totally off subject, but I concur on all the positive comments about USAA.  I have been a member since Sept 1960 and have been a customer of the bank for about the last 10 years.  Wouldn't deal with anyone else for insurance or banking.

[Short Field]

35 year member here.

[DNall]

25k loan on just my signature for 1.99% over 5yrs, no payments till Jan... yeah that don't suck.

[piperl4]

I just got an IC badge from VG and like usual it looks very cheap, Not the design they way its made. I think the design is great and I honestly do not think anyone could mistake them for Jump wings that I also have. The pilot wings look a tad bit better than the IC badge. I do like the finish on the hocks as it not quite as toyish looking. Good news is I could wear them all at the same time
We have come a long ways as when I joined in 1975 they used ss#'s. I understand why they had to give that up
Merry Christmas all and may each of you receive a G1000 in your stocking.
together
Dave H MER DE006

[piperl4]

I forgot my original qyestion and that is I know the differance between
IC3 and the very much controled IC1 But what is the differance in the
IC2, it was hard enough getting the IC3 and I am not sure  I am Up to the IC2, Good part about renewing the IC is the long list of items you requalify for when you renew it.
Dave