Anyone ever suggest something other than shirt epaulet insignia for jackets?

[biomed441]

Agreed as well.  going back to the berry boards wouldn't be my preference either.  Going back to blue on the shirt an pin on rank/cap cutout on the service coat would be a good option. I could be wrong here that the reason we deviated from that was from a bad apple or two, and not necessarily the USAF saying they didn't like it.  I'd venture to say those involved in us getting hit with the maroon are long gone on both the CAP and USAF side, and there is precedence to ask the USAF to allow us to move back to that as its not a new uniform, just a request to return to an older iteration.   

For added visibility maybe change the sleeve braid color on the coats if it is a major concern of the USAF for visibility?  Red (not maroon) or Gold maybe? 

[Jester]

For added visibility maybe change the sleeve braid color on the coats if it is a major concern of the USAF for visibility?  Red (not maroon) or Gold maybe? 

Or just a contrasting medium-dark gray. 

[Capt Thompson]

Agreed as well.  going back to the berry boards wouldn't be my preference either.  Going back to blue on the shirt an pin on rank/cap cutout on the service coat would be a good option. I could be wrong here that the reason we deviated from that was from a bad apple or two, and not necessarily the USAF saying they didn't like it.  I'd venture to say those involved in us getting hit with the maroon are long gone on both the CAP and USAF side, and there is precedence to ask the USAF to allow us to move back to that as its not a new uniform, just a request to return to an older iteration.   

For added visibility maybe change the sleeve braid color on the coats if it is a major concern of the USAF for visibility?  Red (not maroon) or Gold maybe? 

A red sleeve braid might not look too bad, and Vanguard already carries it

https://www.vanguardmil.com/products/civil-air-patrol-sleeve-braid-34-inch-wwii

[Shuman 14]

Perhaps maybe we could borrow an idea from the USCGAux.

Their office holder insignia has a big "A" on the rank itself in Red for appointed office holders and blue for elected office holders.

USCGAux Office Holder Insignia

Perhaps we could do the same but use three red letters "C A P" across our ranks or just the red "A" as we are the USAF's auxiliary, and maybe use red enamel in our silver nametags on the service coat instead of blue.

I wouldn't mind if we changed the sleeve braid from dark navy blue (black) to grey or red (maroon). these would small changes that would make a big difference.

Then we could use pin -on rank on the Service Coat and outwear without issue.

[PhotogPilot]

The fact that we don't use pin-on insignia bewilders me.

We used to wear pin on insignia before the maroon at first and later grey epaulets were forced on us because of some member's misbehavior.

Well, that moron was the CAP National Commander. and his initials weren't AP, imagine that. Just be thankful Ma Blue didn't put us back in Berry Boards after THAT fiasco.

[armyguy]

Perhaps maybe we could borrow an idea from the USCGAux.

Their office holder insignia has a big "A" on the rank itself in Red for appointed office holders and blue for elected office holders.

USCGAux Office Holder Insignia

Perhaps we could do the same but use three red letters "C A P" across our ranks or just the red "A" as we are the USAF's auxiliary, and maybe use red enamel in our silver nametags on the service coat instead of blue.

I wouldn't mind if we changed the sleeve braid from dark navy blue (black) to grey or red (maroon). these would small changes that would make a big difference.

Then we could use pin -on rank on the Service Coat and outwear without issue.

This would work great with CAP -  just like the Navy uses for their civilian professional mariners in the Military Sea Lift.  https://www.vanguardmil.com/collections/navy-military-sealift-command

[Eclipse]

Or wait...what if there was just no grade?

Nothing to PIN, nothing to sew, nothing to buy.

Done.

Next issue.

[N6RVT]

Or wait...what if there was just no grade?
Nothing to PIN, nothing to sew, nothing to buy.
Done. Next issue.

I support eliminating grade for a different reason.  It totally confuses anyone from outside the organization who is attempting to figure out how CAP functions.  Its like the grade is there for the same reason Patton had an invasion force in WW2, its camouflage so you can't tell who is really in charge

[PHall]

Or wait...what if there was just no grade?
Nothing to PIN, nothing to sew, nothing to buy.
Done. Next issue.

I support eliminating grade for a different reason.  It totally confuses anyone from outside the organization who is attempting to figure out how CAP functions.  Its like the grade is there for the same reason Patton had an invasion force in WW2, its camouflage so you can't tell who is really in charge

You can give up your grade anytime you want to. Just fill out a CAP Form 2, check the Voluntary Demotion box and give it to your Commander. It's as simple as that.

[Eclipse]

This attitude is one of the problems with CAP as a concept.

[MSG Mac]

Back to reinventing wheels. We lost the privilege of metal insignia in the late 80's when some a National Commander convinced the then National Board and Executive Committee to authorize a difference in the Grade structure without asking for AF's opinion or input. The grade insignia (Berry and Grey shoulder sleeves) are just the beginning
lesser impacts of that decision. 

[heliodoc]

Filling out a CAPF 2A, eh?  Seems to have been suggested to someone else on this site.

All these uniform changes and bling sure have been instituted by a bunch of folks interested in "ME before Mission."

Good ol Pineda and his type of ilk in CAP and Exec Committee and Natl Board sure have a hard time understanding the landlord/tenant relationship

IF we are a "Corporation" maybe we ask USAF for total civilian line of ES wear ( like hi Viz, many ask me why camo for SAR) maybe if we are "Premier SAR" organization we might want dress like one...you know see and be seen...

But common sense for the last 80 years hasn't been so common....when it comes operations and uniforms discussions

LOLOLOL

[Shuman 14]

This attitude is one of the problems with CAP as a concept.

I'm glad you recognize you have a problem, will you seek help?

[Shuman 14]

This would work great with CAP -  just like the Navy uses for their civilian professional mariners in the Military Sea Lift.  https://www.vanguardmil.com/collections/navy-military-sealift-command

I have never seen those before, thanks for the link.

That's exactly what we should do, change the little enamel bar to red or grey with silver edges and silver lettering and the initials "MSC" to "CAP" and we have the perfect pin-on insignia.

Even if we only got to use them on the trench coat and the blue windbreaker jacket, it would be an improvement on rank slides on a outer-coat's epaulets.

[N6RVT]

This would work great with CAP -  just like the Navy uses for their civilian professional mariners in the Military Sea Lift.  https://www.vanguardmil.com/collections/navy-military-sealift-command

I have never seen those before, thanks for the link.

That's exactly what we should do, change the little enamel bar to red or grey with silver edges and silver lettering and the initials "MSC" to "CAP" and we have the perfect pin-on insignia.

Even if we only got to use them on the trench coat and the blue windbreaker jacket, it would be an improvement on rank slides on a outer-coat's epaulets.

Don't forget the raincoat, where slide cloth ranks make no sense, and the fact the epaulets on the blue jacket are attached at the top, requiring special velcro non-slide-on ranks to be made just for that one uniform.

[Shuman 14]

Don't forget the raincoat, where slide cloth ranks make no sense, and the fact the epaulets on the blue jacket are attached at the top, requiring special velcro non-slide-on ranks to be made just for that one uniform.

I thought the Trench Coat and the Raincoat were the same thing, are there two different coats in the USAF and CAP?

As I don't own a Service Coat, I did not know it required a special rank slide for it's epaulet; I "assumed" that you just unbuttoned the Silver button and put the slide on.

[Jester]

Don't forget the raincoat, where slide cloth ranks make no sense, and the fact the epaulets on the blue jacket are attached at the top, requiring special velcro non-slide-on ranks to be made just for that one uniform.

I thought the Trench Coat and the Raincoat were the same thing, are there two different coats in the USAF and CAP?

As I don't own a Service Coat, I did not know it required a special rank slide for it's epaulet; I "assumed" that you just unbuttoned the Silver button and put the slide on.

He means the lightweight blue jacket, trench coat/rain coat is called the all-weather coat.

[LSThiker]

Don't forget the raincoat, where slide cloth ranks make no sense, and the fact the epaulets on the blue jacket are attached at the top, requiring special velcro non-slide-on ranks to be made just for that one uniform.

I thought the Trench Coat and the Raincoat were the same thing, are there two different coats in the USAF and CAP?

As I don't own a Service Coat, I did not know it required a special rank slide for it's epaulet; I "assumed" that you just unbuttoned the Silver button and put the slide on.

He means the lightweight blue jacket, trench coat/rain coat is called the all-weather coat.

Oddly enough, the USAF, and CAP, used to have separate coats. If you go back to the March 2005 CAPM 39-1, you will see the raincoat, which was a polyvinyl nylon jacket (funny when the wing patch was to be sewn on). Then we had an all-weather jacket and an overcoat. The USAF overcoat was really a civilian topcoat while the all-weather jacket was really a civilian overcoat. A trench coat is really a topcoat, which has fabric of 18 oz or less per yard. The overcoat traditionally had fabric of 30 oz or more per yard.

[N6RVT]

Don't forget the raincoat, where slide cloth ranks make no sense, and the fact the epaulets on the blue jacket are attached at the top, requiring special velcro non-slide-on ranks to be made just for that one uniform.

I thought the Trench Coat and the Raincoat were the same thing, are there two different coats in the USAF and CAP?

No, CAP and USAF use the same coats. Used to be there was a raincoat, a topcoat and an overcoat.  It was all simplified to a single all weather coat with a removable liner.

There used to be a cheap polycotton windbreaker for blues but it is gone now, what you have is an admittedly much nicer poly-wool jacket that's more like a sports team jacket.  In fact a lot of the surplus ones you find have the USAF logo on the front and we can't use those, you have to find a plain one.

On those coats the shoulder epaulet does not have a button, it is sewn down at the top, and you have to use wrap around velcro rank sleeves on it.

[PHall]

Many of the surplus Air Force Lightweight Jacket have the Air Force logo on them because the getting the logo embroidered on the jacket is heavily encouraged at Lackland and the AETC Tech School bases.
Many airmen opt to get a new jacket once they reach their first assignment and the effects of the AETC brainwashing start wearing off.