Watch Cap Clarification

[TheSkyHornet]

So two weeks ago we had O-Flights. It was bitter cold that morning, and Cadets had to spend some time on the tarmac waiting on planes, doing preflight etc. Flying activities require a CAP uniform, I can't say let's just wear civvies that day, but it was far too cold to be in ABU's without outerwear. Cadets wore civilian coats that day, not due to failure to plan, but because safety takes precedence, and in this case the CP regs overrule 39-1.

I think that would be a good opportunity to reassess the conditions of the activity via risk management review.

I understand that some smaller airports may not have a facility in which personnel could huddle indoors. Is that the most reasonable/practicable location to conduct O-Flights from during the winter?

Let's refer to the Cold Weather precautions:
https://www.gocivilairpatrol.com/programs/cadets/library/cadet-weather

If cadets are outside for an extensive period of time, there should be a "warming break." This is generally indoors, or at a heated location (fire pit, portable heater, etc.). If there is a lack of opportunity to provide that warming break, I'm not sure that proper risk management is being applied to ensure both safety and compliance.

I would propose that if the precautions cannot be adhered to whilst maintaining compliance, then maybe the RM should consider the go/no-go decision to continue or cancel the activity.

Because the cadets don't have the appropriate uniform to be, given the nature of safe operations, is reason enough for me to say, "You know, I just don't think we should do this." Once the idea of should comes into play, it's probably better to just call it at that point and postpone.

That's different then an adhoc decision in the moment, which potentially puts everyone at risk.

This.

The whole subject of "can we wear whatever we want for safety" is situated upon the question: Is this a decision that was made before the activity, or after the activity already started?

If the decision was made before an activity to wear whatever for the sake of whatever, that's terrible planning and intentional non-compliance.

If the decision was made after the activity started that we need to wear whatever for the sake of immediate response to safety concerns, then action is appropriate, but an After-Action Review should be conducted to identify if there were any gaps in planning that can be mitigated/avoided in the future.

As usual Hornet has completely captured this in a better way than I could. Complete agreement with his entire post!

Bravo Zulu, Hornet.

*waves wings*

[Capt Thompson]

So what prevented you from declaring the UOD to be PT uniform with full layered warm outerwear?

Please define "PT Uniform" as stated in CAPR 39-1. We have dress uniforms, working uniforms, flight duty uniforms and special uniforms, but if you search PT Uniform you get 0 results from the regs. Now we're saying, in order to avoid a Cadet wearing a civilian jacket over a complete and approved CAP uniform, which is allowed under Cadet Protection regs, we'll get approval for them to wear non-CAP civilian attire, which is completely against regs.

NCSA's have approval for modifications to the uniform, due to the fact they aren't just in the air for an hour long O-Flight, but under the beating sun for most of the day. NESA, for instance, had students wear a NESA shirt with black shorts as an approved event uniform. Why would I go through the trouble of trying to get the Wing CC to approve a special event uniform for Saturday O-Flights, when they can wear ABU's with a civilian jacket per regs?

[Capt Thompson]

I think that would be a good opportunity to reassess the conditions of the activity via risk management review.

Again, we're talking about 10 minutes on a cold tarmac waiting for the plane to be sanitized from the previous crew, maybe 15 minutes to preflight the plane, plus the ability to stay warm while in the plane. I'm not calling the activity because it's cold, when I can easily ask the Cadets who don't have a Gore-Tex to instead wear a comparable civilian jacket, which is approved under CAPR 60-2 2.6.13.4.

2.6.13.4. Uniforms. In cold weather, commanders and activity directors will prioritize protection
from the elements over adherence to CAP uniform standards.

[TheSkyHornet]

I think that would be a good opportunity to reassess the conditions of the activity via risk management review.

Again, we're talking about 10 minutes on a cold tarmac waiting for the plane to be sanitized from the previous crew, maybe 15 minutes to preflight the plane, plus the ability to stay warm while in the plane. I'm not calling the activity because it's cold, when I can easily ask the Cadets who don't have a Gore-Tex to instead wear a comparable civilian jacket, which is approved under CAPR 60-2 2.6.13.4.

2.6.13.4. Uniforms. In cold weather, commanders and activity directors will prioritize protection
from the elements over adherence to CAP uniform standards.

Okay, let's do the regulation dance...

CAPR 39-1, 1.1.5.1
COMPLIANCE WITH THIS PUBLICATION IS MANDATORY. This publication is the sole source for wear instructions and authorized items for various uniform combinations as prescribed within unless there is an approved supplement in accordance with paragraph 13.1 of this regulation. Variation from this publication or approved supplements is not authorized. Items not listed in this publication are not authorized for wear with uniforms.

CAPR 39-1, 1.2.4
Wearing the USAF-style uniform is a privilege extended to CAP members who meet weight (see Attachment 2) and grooming standards (see paragraph 3.2). Commanders and activity directors are expected to enforce these standards and ensure that members wearing USAF-style uniforms understand these requirements, that members wearing USAF-style uniforms accept personal responsibility for meeting these requirements and are expected to provide remedial education and counseling if required.

CAPR 39-1 2.10.4
2.10.4. Determine acceptable civilian clothing for wear at CAP activities and may prohibit clothing that is offensive for moral, legal, or safety reasons.

CAPR 39-1, 2.11
Members in leadership roles must be knowledgeable of uniform and personal grooming and appearance standards (regardless of gender of subordinates) and set the example of acceptable standards. Leaders will ensure subordinate members are in compliance with this regulation and all applicable supplements, take appropriate corrective action when they do not meet acceptable standards, apply CAP's Core Value of Respect, with respect both for the uniform and for the members involved.

CAPR 160-1, 2.4.6
The member placed in charge of any CAP mission, activity or event (such as activity director, incident commander (IC), ground team leader, cadet leader, etc.) is responsible to ensure RM is conducted in the planning, execution and after-action assessment as outlined in chapters 3 and 4.

CAPR 160-1, 3.3.1
Deliberate RM planning refers to those situations when the full formal application of the complete 5-step process is warranted, including the use of CAP Form 160, Deliberate Risk Assessment Worksheet. The Deliberate RM process is usually reserved for large or complex CAP missions or activities and should be initiated well in advance of any activity or program execution.

CAPR 160-1, 3.3.1.1
The entire deliberate RM process must be completed and documented, to include signature of the member in charge of the activity or mission. Deliberate RM will be accomplished utilizing the CAP Form 160 in the following cases, or in similar cases where a thorough planning process is indicated.

CAPR 160-1, 3.3.1.1.2
Any time a squadron, wing or region activity is conducted for the first time, or at a new venue, or when there is a significant change in members involved in the planning, execution or supervision.

[CAPR 160-1, 3.3.1.2
When the events described in paragraph 3.3.1.1. happen on a recurring basis, with the same venue and similar events and plans, full deliberate RM is not required. In these cases, the previously accomplished risk assessment and plan, to include the previously accomplished CAP Form 160, may be used as a starting point. However, in all cases the following must still be accomplished and documented:

3.3.1.2.1. A new CAP Form 160 will be accomplished to reflect new event information, personnel, and a fresh assessment of new and current hazards, and approval of the planned event. The previously accomplished CAP Form 160 will be included as a supplement to the new CAP Form 160.

3.3.1.2.2. Ensure all hazards, risks, and controls listed on the previous CAPF 160 are still applicable to the event being planned, and resources are available to implement those controls. Review After-action Feedback and Lessons Learned (block 14) from previous CAPF 160.

CAPR 160-1, 3.7.2
Cold weather can also bring specific hazards and risks. Anytime extreme cold temperatures or prolonged exposure to the cold will present an increased risk of cold-related illness or injury, the activity plan will include specific controls to mitigate the effects of the cold. CAP guards against cold-related and wind-related injuries by following OSHA's protective strategies. For current OSHA guidance on cold weather strategies, refer to gocivilairpatrol.com/safety. For specific cold weather guidance related to Cadet Activities, refer to CAPR 60-1.



So let's recap here:
Nowhere in any of the above does it say to disregard compliance for the sake of safety. If you have a scheduled activity, it requires safety risk assessment and mitigation as part of the activity plan of which must be recorded.

If you are planning an activity and determining what to wear, it means that you're pre-planning the event and therefore need to consider the appropriate precautions through SRM. If you are determining that the appropriate precaution includes non-compliance, then you are not effectively/adequately mitigating risk. You need to conduct a further risk assessment to and determine what other controls that should be in place. If you cannot mitigate the risk to an acceptable level which ensures compliance prior to the start of the activity, then you should not proceed with the activity.

[Eclipse]

You missed this which basically trumps everything else...

"1.2.1. Individual members will obtain and maintain for wear either of the minimum basic uniforms
described here. These combinations meet the requirements of most CAP events. A commander may
require cadets to wear other optional uniform items only if the purchase is voluntary (such as requiring a specific uniform for participation in a National Cadet Special Activity) or if the uniform is supplied
without expense to the cadet."

Leaving NCSAs and encampments aside, prohibiting a cadet from participating in normal unit activities
because they do not have a given piece of regulation outerwear, hat, or other non-MBU uniform item
violates the above, not to mention the spirit of the Cadet Program and NHQ inclusivity policies.

NHQ has fundamentally ignored the issue of uniform procurement and expense, not to mention specifically
the outwear issue for decades, and worse, not only does it not even provide a source for many of
the required items, it has either actively quashed alternate vendors, or watched as the few sources
available to members (like AAFES), were shutout without warning or alternative.

This is an NHQ mess, and there's no single answer or solution that can comply with the competing
regulations and policies...

...except do your best for the cadets at the time.

[Shuman 14]

This is why the multiform not a uniform is truly a problem.

If we had one field uniform, for both Senior and Cadet we might be able to maintain a supply room at squadron or group level where young cadets as they out grow a uniform they could donate it to the Supply Room, the same with seniors (we sometimes "outgrow" our uniforms too).

If we were all in OCPs, then we could get surplus from the Air Force, Space Force and Army and then we might be able to outfit cadets, at no cost, when they go to encampment.

One of my oldest friends was in CAP in the late 80s and early 90s as a Cadet, tells stories of going to a Wing Supply Room before an encampment and being fitted out with everything he needed... BDUs, boots, and LBE... before he went. All he needed to pay for was nametapes, CAP tapes, rank and sewing.

I wish we could get to that point again.

[Spam]

I wish we could get to that point again.

Me too. I had a similar experience as a cadet in the early 80s (except I mowed lawns to buy my own boots because size 12 narrow was the biggest they had in supply - my first FTX, with full rucks on mountain marches was horrific and bloody).

But (speculate with me here), if you were the USAF customer and you knew that your Auxiliary was knowingly disrespecting the (obsolete, former ABU) uniform, would you be highly motivated to approve CAP to wear, let a lone fund supplies of or defray the costs of, the current OCP uniform?

I can't. Better to wear no uniform (warm civvies) than to violate the Cadet Oath.

V/r
Jeff

[Eclipse]

One of my oldest friends was in CAP in the late 80s and early 90s as a Cadet, tells stories of going to a Wing Supply Room before an encampment and being fitted out with everything he needed... BDUs, boots, and LBE... before he went. All he needed to pay for was nametapes, CAP tapes, rank and sewing.

I wish we could get to that point again.

This was more a casualty of BRAC then any specific uniform decisions.

Moving to OCPs wouldn't change the lack of military facilities with their ancillary and
unintended benefits.

[Shuman 14]

I wish we could get to that point again.

Me too. I had a similar experience as a cadet in the early 80s (except I mowed lawns to buy my own boots because size 12 narrow was the biggest they had in supply - my first FTX, with full rucks on mountain marches was horrific and bloody).

But (speculate with me here), if you were the USAF customer and you knew that your Auxiliary was knowingly disrespecting the (obsolete, former ABU) uniform, would you be highly motivated to approve CAP to wear, let a lone fund supplies of or defray the costs of, the current OCP uniform?

I can't. Better to wear no uniform (warm civvies) than to violate the Cadet Oath.

V/r
Jeff

I think they'd be more concerned if we let Cadets get frostbite or other cold injuries than any disrespect caused to a uniform they've tossed to the waste bin of history. Just saying.

The BDU and the ABU are no longer Air Force uniforms, they're camouflaged civilian clothing now. Perfect for hunting and paintballing and washing the car in on a Saturday afternoon in the summer.

But to speculate, if the USAF Customer came and complained, I would say "I know, it's such a shame, since the Air Force did away with the ABUs no one is producing ABUs or foliage green fleeces anymore. Our sole supplier is Vanguard and they provided substandard quality ABUs and carry very little in the way of cold weather gear. I truly wish we could wear OCPs, with the USAF, USSF and US Army all wearing the same uniforms, supplies of appropriate cold weather gear and uniforms would be much more easier to come by. Can you assist us with this?"

[Shuman 14]

One of my oldest friends was in CAP in the late 80s and early 90s as a Cadet, tells stories of going to a Wing Supply Room before an encampment and being fitted out with everything he needed... BDUs, boots, and LBE... before he went. All he needed to pay for was nametapes, CAP tapes, rank and sewing.

I wish we could get to that point again.

This was more a casualty of BRAC then any specific uniform decisions.

Moving to OCPs wouldn't change the lack of military facilities with their ancillary and
unintended benefits.

Not following here, please explain how BRAC affected CAP supply rooms?

[Eclipse]

Not following here, please explain how BRAC affected CAP supply rooms?

By eliminating the bases and personnel that fed them.

[PHall]

Not following here, please explain how BRAC affected CAP supply rooms?

By eliminating the bases and personnel that fed them.

Still not following. Please enlighten us.

[Capt Thompson]

One of my oldest friends was in CAP in the late 80s and early 90s as a Cadet, tells stories of going to a Wing Supply Room before an encampment and being fitted out with everything he needed... BDUs, boots, and LBE... before he went. All he needed to pay for was nametapes, CAP tapes, rank and sewing.

I wish we could get to that point again.

Ah the old Wing Supply Room, this was a little known secret that I utilized quite a bit as a Cadet Commander in the 90's. Ours was run by our CAP-USAF liaison, and I could make an appointment on a Saturday and let him know what I was coming for, and he'd have it ready to go but also let me browse around and see if there was anything else I needed. Always stacks of BDU's, field jackets, the old 4 pocket service coats still in plastic, LBE's and ALICE packs. Always more than they had room for so he was always asking if I was sure I didn't need anything else. If he didn't have something he could get it from DRMO.

[RiverAux]

Not following here, please explain how BRAC affected CAP supply rooms?

By eliminating the bases and personnel that fed them.

Still not following. Please enlighten us.

Fewer bases scattered around the country and less people in the military mean that there are fewer squadrons near active bases that would have access to discarded uniforms. 

Of course each state at least has an Air NG base that could be a source of old uniforms.

Although my squadron and Wing HQ is in the same city as an AFB and I am unaware of any significant efforts in the last 20-odd years to really use this as a source of uniforms for CAP -- but then I wasn't involved in logistics so maybe it was something that we tried, but I am fairly sure never succeeded in. 

[Spam]

Those are all good points, but I think there are several other factors besides BRAC actions and post Cold War 1 drawdowns*. I am not a loggie by real life profession, but here's my take:

1. Changes in the DoD uniform and gear logistics system over the past 20 years have taken place, resulting in more of a "just in time" point of sale system, coupled with online ordering, than ever before. Therefore, we end up with fewer massive stocks (and local overstocks for CAP to pull from) on hand on various bases and installations. At the same time, CAP has moved from our own version (The Bookstore and CAP Supply Depot, and a few others like The Hock Shop) to a single for profit uniform supplier (Vanguard) and decentralized approved mx suppliers.

2. Changes in the CAP-USAF structure have dramatically gutted the number of qualified reservist LO/LNCOs to screen, freeze and stock surplus equipment from DRMOs.  Last time I've asked, we were down to just a few per Region, and they were very out of practice (it isn't a usual thing at all any more, as we even procure vehicles new build).

3. Fraud waste and abuse of the DRMO system by CAP members over the past few decades has resulted in the end of CAP members being allowed to screen/freeze uniforms/gear/vehicles. For example, one Wing had a few members who were screening and getting vehicles for CAP from the DRMO at a local SAC base, and selling them on the local used car market (hence the current provisions in our Logistics regs).  If you can ID pallets of gear/uniforms on the DRMO website (available publicly) you could theoretically flash that to your LO, but at the point where lots are being bid publicly that may be too late (don't know).

V/r
Spam

PS I would not bank on the new Cold War resulting in a glut of uniforms or gear for us, because of the structural factors listed. I say post CW1 since we're obviously fully into a second Cold War now, praying it won't go hot... be ready, teammates.

[TheSkyHornet]

I know of squadrons that literally have a supply room (20' x 30') of uniform/equipment items. That doesn't do a lot of good for other units that either don't know that those supplies exist to even ask for assistance or don't have a good relationship with that unit.

Finding and allocating uniforms is a squadron issue, not a wing issue, no matter how much it may impact a cadet's ability to attend higher echelon activities. Let's face it: most squadrons get by because they bend the rules, and those same squadrons are the ones that send their cadets to activities where other members leave the activity saying, "Did you see those xxxxx cadets? They look like garbage."

[Spam]

I know of squadrons that literally have a supply room (20' x 30') of uniform/equipment items. That doesn't do a lot of good for other units that either don't know that those supplies exist to even ask for assistance or don't have a good relationship with that unit.

Finding and allocating uniforms is a squadron issue, not a wing issue, no matter how much it may impact a cadet's ability to attend higher echelon activities. Let's face it: most squadrons get by because they bend the rules, and those same squadrons are the ones that send their cadets to activities where other members leave the activity saying, "Did you see those xxxxx cadets? They look like garbage."

Again, solid agreement here, Hornet. I've said for some time that adherence to the little stuff (uniform regs) is a leading index of hazardous attitudes (cf. FAAs hazardous attitudes from CRM training, "you can't tell me...!").  Either that, or self delusion is a factor when people delude themselves into thinking that because they CAN somehow squeeeeeeze themselves into USAF style, they should, compliance be hanged. I finally woke myself up from that about ten years ago, honestly.

So units like that merit increased command attention, because if we see people routinely skirting one reg, we need to start looking closer at adherence to CPP, logistics, finance, and airmanship standards because of that mindset.

V/r
Spam

Ref: FAA 5 hazardous attitudes.
https://www.faa.gov/regulations_policies/handbooks_manuals/aviation/phak/media/04_phak_ch2.pdf

[baronet68]

Fewer bases scattered around the country and less people in the military mean that there are fewer squadrons near active bases that would have access to discarded uniforms. 

Of course each state at least has an Air NG base that could be a source of old uniforms.

Although my squadron and Wing HQ is in the same city as an AFB and I am unaware of any significant efforts in the last 20-odd years to really use this as a source of uniforms for CAP -- but then I wasn't involved in logistics so maybe it was something that we tried, but I am fairly sure never succeeded in. 

Any unit near an AFB or ANG base really has no reason right now to NOT be literally swimming in ABUs.  My home squadron placed this box on a fairly well-traveled road on base one year ago, and has since collected in excess of 20,000 pounds (that's 10 tons) of ABUs. 

The unit hasn't been hoarding those uniforms, instead they've flooded the supply rooms of just about every squadron in their wing as well as many in their adjacent wings.

DRMO might no longer be a dependable source, but service members are always looking to discard uniforms due to uniform updates, body size changes, or leaving military service.  While they're not always in the "smallest" sizes many cadets need, they are free and could be altered for a reasonable cost by a skilled seamstress.  By providing place for people to drop off those uniforms, we can collect a lot.  With the phase-out of ABUs, we've been approached by units on base wanting to discard their hoards of other ABU-patterned items including gortex jackets, molle equipment, first aid kits, etc.

[TheSkyHornet]

Any unit near an AFB or ANG base really has no reason right now to NOT be literally swimming in ABUs.

Most CAP squadrons aren't near AFB or ANG bases. Most AFBs seem to also have a unit onsite or in close proximity.

The unit hasn't been hoarding those uniforms, instead they've flooded the supply rooms of just about every squadron in their wing as well as many in their adjacent wings.

That's definitely not the case in my wing. Here, if you get uniform items, you hang onto them. There may be a few individuals who are willing to coordinate some supply transfers between units, but it's rare that it's the actual unit. In fact, this practice is what caused some squadrons to have this now totally useless endless stockpile of BDU items. There's a unit that literally has a hangar attic full of them because they were keeping them solely for their members. Didn't work out so great when they didn't have an ABU cache, and other units didn't want to play nice with them after that.

With the phase-out of ABUs, we've been approached by units on base wanting to discard their hoards of other ABU-patterned items including gortex jackets, molle equipment, first aid kits, etc.

Some of the issue here is that this goes back to uniforms being a squadron matter. Many units have no comprehension as to how to get a stockpile of uniform items, including those that can be gathered from AFB bases.

We have a unit who is 70 miles to the nearest AFB, and 110 miles to the nearest ANGB. There are 8 other squadrons that are closer. That unit doesn't stand a chance at getting ABUs unless they get out there and do it on their own.

That said, that's really what they should be doing, right? They should be reaching out to go get some uniforms. But they don't know how, and so they didn't. What do they do in a year when ABUs are long gone from anyone's donation pile?


An organization that relies on clothing donations to maintain a uniform appearance through policy really needs to find a new approach. It's not realistic/feasible.

[RiverAux]

Some of the issue here is that this goes back to uniforms being a squadron matter.

Technically, its an individual member matter.  If a squadron or a wing wants to try to accumulate a uniform supply, they can, but are under no obligation to do so. 

That being said, why can't the Air Force directly supply uniforms to CAP?  Maybe someone that has been buying stuff more recently can do the math, but the in the scheme of the AF budget, it should be do-able.  Either for cadets, seniors, or both.  Out of curiosity, do JROTC cadets buy their own uniforms? 

Say they did, I know that many squadrons wouldn't have the space to store adequate uniforms, but it should be something that most Wings could probably manage. 

Sure, I understand that if the AF can get people to volunteer their time and outfit themselves that would be preferable, but it sure does introduce a lot of issues.