Watch Cap Clarification

[CAPed Crusader]

Hello and happy holidays!

I have spent around an hour or so doing research and have referred to 39-1 regarding the winter watch cap. For ABUs, the green watch cap is authorized, but its hard to find/get them now. The black watch cap is authorized but for the BDU but they are phased out. Vanguard only sells black watch cap, so I assume it goes with ABUs? I have seen pictures on the internet with the black watch cap in ABU uniform. Personally, I have trouble understanding the format of 39-1, I have talked to my chain of command, but they were unsure swell and said I'd be fine either way, but I like to go by the books, (that's just the way I am). Notice on the paragraph's below it specifies the ABU green cap's uniform designation, but not the black, (I have cited the regs). So, my question is, can I wear a black watch cap in ABU's?


Thank you and here is a quoted part of 39-1 regarding this:

6.2.6. Black Watch Cap (Figure 6.16).
6.2.6.1. Cap will fit snugly over top of head (tight fit). Adjust cap so it may fit squarely on head. Fold edge of cap all the way around, adjust crease so that the folded edge is no more than 3 inches wide. The back of the cap should run across the nape of the neck and the front should rest within 1⁄2 inch of the eyebrows. The watch cap should reflect a diagonal line across the ears moving downwards, from front to back. No bunching and no sagging.
  material.
6.2.6.2. It will be commercially designed, plain, solid black knit or fleece/microfiber 6.2.6.3. Grade insignia is not worn on the black watch cap.


6.2.5. GreenWatchCap(Figure6.14).
6.2.5.1. Cap will fit snugly over top of head (tight fit). Adjust cap so it may fit squarely on head. Fold edge of cap all the way around, adjust crease so that the folded edge is no more than 3 inches wide. The back of the cap should run across the nape of the neck and the front should rest within 1⁄2 inch of the eyebrows. The watch cap should reflect a diagonal line across the ears moving downwards, from front to back. No bunching and no sagging.
6.2.5.2. Grade insignia is not worn on the watch cap.
6.2.5.3. Cap will be worn only with the Airman Battle Uniform.


and below you can see the black watch cap in ABUs.



image credit to: https://fremonttribune.com/news/local/watch-now-civil-air-patrol-honors-fremont-military-graves-with-wreaths-across-america/article_ba133e1d-775f-5a2b-8dbe-1a8b4aff2f2c.html

[RiverAux]

I don't see anything in what you quoted that prohibits wearing the black watch cap with ABUs.  They did go out of their way to prevent anything but the green one with ABUs.  Lacking any other clarification I would assume you could wear the black one with ABUs. 

That being said, with uniforms if something isn't specifically authorized, it isn't allowed....

[Capt Thompson]

The only mention of the black watch cap besides the description, is under the BDU section, stating it is authorized headgear for that uniform. Being that it isn't specifically authorized for ABU's, I would argue it isn't.

That said, we always lean toward safety first, which is why a Cadet can wear a civilian coat over an Air Force style uniform if they don't have one that meets regs. In that vein, I would much rather see a Cadet in a black watch cap because that's all he/she had, than wearing a non-insulated ABU cap and potentially sustaining a cold weather injury.

[Spam]

The only mention of the black watch cap besides the description, is under the BDU section, stating it is authorized headgear for that uniform. Being that it isn't specifically authorized for ABU's, I would argue it isn't.

That said, we always lean toward safety first, which is why a Cadet can wear a civilian coat over an Air Force style uniform if they don't have one that meets regs. In that vein, I would much rather see a Cadet in a black watch cap because that's all he/she had, than wearing a non-insulated ABU cap and potentially sustaining a cold weather injury.

Strongly disagree with your claim that cadets can wear civilian coats over USAF style uniforms (see R39-1, 1.1.5, below - they are not allowed to). "But, but, Safety" is no excuse for knowingly busting the regs. Get them in the correct USAF style uniform, set the UOD to warm civilian clothing (all civilian/no USAF style), replan the activity so that they are outdoors for only brief periods, or send them home.

Sorry. Complain to the NHQ Uniform Board, not me...

V/R
Spam

CAPR 39-1 3 March 2020
1.1.5. Oversight.
1.1.5.1. COMPLIANCE WITH THIS PUBLICATION IS MANDATORY. This publication is the sole source for wear instructions and authorized items for various uniform combinations as prescribed within unless there is an approved supplement in accordance with paragraph 13.1 of this regulation. Variation from this publication or approved supplements is not authorized. Items not listed in this publication are not authorized for wear with uniforms. Local commanders do not have the authority to waive grooming and appearance standards. [emphasis added]

[Spam]

... Tailing on, noted the member wearing a BDU pattern field jacket with ABUs in the cited picture. This isn't allowed either since we've sunset the BDU uniform. Were I the activity commander, I'd have had him in a regular ABU or blues uniform, authorized him to come in warm, all civilian clothing, or asked him to go home. (Done it before).

Exact same principle as cadets (and adults) who show up unshaved or with long hair. Fix, get out of USAF style, or go home (thanks for playing). Safety is not a crutch or excuse for this.

V/r
Spam

[jeders]

The only mention of the black watch cap besides the description, is under the BDU section, stating it is authorized headgear for that uniform. Being that it isn't specifically authorized for ABU's, I would argue it isn't.

That said, we always lean toward safety first, which is why a Cadet can wear a civilian coat over an Air Force style uniform if they don't have one that meets regs. In that vein, I would much rather see a Cadet in a black watch cap because that's all he/she had, than wearing a non-insulated ABU cap and potentially sustaining a cold weather injury.

Strongly disagree with your claim that cadets can wear civilian coats over USAF style uniforms (see R39-1, 1.1.5, below - they are not allowed to). "But, but, Safety" is no excuse for knowingly busting the regs. Get them in the correct USAF style uniform, set the UOD to warm civilian clothing (all civilian/no USAF style), replan the activity so that they are outdoors for only brief periods, or send them home.

Sorry. Complain to the NHQ Uniform Board, not me...

V/R
Spam

CAPR 39-1 3 March 2020
1.1.5. Oversight.
1.1.5.1. COMPLIANCE WITH THIS PUBLICATION IS MANDATORY. This publication is the sole source for wear instructions and authorized items for various uniform combinations as prescribed within unless there is an approved supplement in accordance with paragraph 13.1 of this regulation. Variation from this publication or approved supplements is not authorized. Items not listed in this publication are not authorized for wear with uniforms. Local commanders do not have the authority to waive grooming and appearance standards. [emphasis added]

Here's the problem with the way that our regulations are written.

2.6.13.4. Uniforms. In cold weather, commanders and activity directors will prioritize protection from the elements over adherence to CAP uniform standards.

So not only is it allowed by NHQ, it is encouraged to wear whatever is necessary to stay warm, at least for cadets.

[Nikos]

Here is a link to green watch caps.  Not sure if it is correct.

https://www.militarystealsandsurplus.com/collections/clothing/products/military-issued-acrylic-knit-watch-cap-usa-made-foliage-green-new

[wacapgh]

I opened a ticket last summer - The reply from HQ was:

"Only a green watch cap can be worn with the ABU uniform (paragraph 6.2.5 of CAPR 39-2)."

[PHall]

The only mention of the black watch cap besides the description, is under the BDU section, stating it is authorized headgear for that uniform. Being that it isn't specifically authorized for ABU's, I would argue it isn't.

That said, we always lean toward safety first, which is why a Cadet can wear a civilian coat over an Air Force style uniform if they don't have one that meets regs. In that vein, I would much rather see a Cadet in a black watch cap because that's all he/she had, than wearing a non-insulated ABU cap and potentially sustaining a cold weather injury.

Strongly disagree with your claim that cadets can wear civilian coats over USAF style uniforms (see R39-1, 1.1.5, below - they are not allowed to). "But, but, Safety" is no excuse for knowingly busting the regs. Get them in the correct USAF style uniform, set the UOD to warm civilian clothing (all civilian/no USAF style), replan the activity so that they are outdoors for only brief periods, or send them home.

Sorry. Complain to the NHQ Uniform Board, not me...

V/R
Spam

CAPR 39-1 3 March 2020
1.1.5. Oversight.
1.1.5.1. COMPLIANCE WITH THIS PUBLICATION IS MANDATORY. This publication is the sole source for wear instructions and authorized items for various uniform combinations as prescribed within unless there is an approved supplement in accordance with paragraph 13.1 of this regulation. Variation from this publication or approved supplements is not authorized. Items not listed in this publication are not authorized for wear with uniforms. Local commanders do not have the authority to waive grooming and appearance standards. [emphasis added]

Here's the problem with the way that our regulations are written.

2.6.13.4. Uniforms. In cold weather, commanders and activity directors will prioritize protection from the elements over adherence to CAP uniform standards.

So not only is it allowed by NHQ, it is encouraged to wear whatever is necessary to stay warm, at least for cadets.

NHQ hasn't really allowed it, there's just a conflict between two regulations. So what we need is a decision by NHQ on which one will prevail.
Of course CAPR 60-2 governs the Cadet Protection Program while CAPR 39-1 governs CAP Uniform Wear.
So a flip of the coin by NHQ is in order.

[Eclipse]

NHQ is responsible for the mess the regulations are in, including
all the conflicts with uniform wear.

Tie always goes to the runner member.

The last thing CAP's retention needs is cadets penalized because the NUC and other OPRs
can't reconcile the regulations and policies, even ones that have been broken and
pointed out for years, across multi iterations of various publications.

Sending a cadet home because of non-reg outerwear, or having them dress
in civilian clothing is not the proper answer.  Not only does that violate other
regs, but it does not serve the cadet, or the organizaiton.

Also in the mix is that you can't require anything other then the MBU unless it's issued.

[Eclipse]

NHQ hasn't really allowed it, there's just a conflict between two regulations. So what we need is a decision by NHQ on which one will prevail.
Of course CAPR 60-2 governs the Cadet Protection Program while CAPR 39-1 governs CAP Uniform Wear.
So a flip of the coin by NHQ is in order.

Nah - much easier to ignore it for decades and just hope it goes away.

[N6RVT]

NHQ hasn't really allowed it, there's just a conflict between two regulations. So what we need is a decision by NHQ on which one will prevail. Of course CAPR 60-2 governs the Cadet Protection Program while CAPR 39-1 governs CAP Uniform Wear.So a flip of the coin by NHQ is in order.

Nah - much easier to ignore it for decades and just hope it goes away.

The answer is to let the cadets wear the grey & white with the same insignia that goes on the blues.  Problem solved.  Nothing else different, same H/W grooming and everything else, just an option for those who cannot afford or just can't get the full USAF setup.

I have seen many, many squadrons that make up something local to accomplish the same thing, that bears no resemblance to anything in 39-1 except it may qualify for flying Gliders.

[Fubar]

So not only is it allowed by NHQ, it is encouraged to wear whatever is necessary to stay warm, at least for cadets.

Mr. Spam is aware. He didn't like it when the exemption was codified in the cadet protection regulation and chose to ignore it at the time it was released and discussed here and it would appear he chooses to continue ignore the regulation to this day. It was unusual for one of the most intelligent and articulate CAPTalk posters to suddenly act as though he lacked simple comprehension skills, but it was the form of protest he chose to use.

So for all of our cadet leaders, regardless of senior or cadet status, as of the date of this thread it is completely legal (and in fact, required based on the use of the term will in the regulation) for cadets to wear civilian clothing with their USAF-style uniform if it's necessary based on the weather. Sending a cadet home because they wore their civilian jacket over their ABUs is completely contrary to the cadet regulation and opens leaders to formal complaints from their members (which likely aren't going to result in anything more than the leaders being reminded to follow regulations).

Certainly a pertinent topic with winter encampment photos being posted on social media the past couple of days. The Pacific Region encampment for example looked a bit chilly.

[Spam]

So not only is it allowed by NHQ, it is encouraged to wear whatever is necessary to stay warm, at least for cadets.

Mr. Spam is aware. He didn't like it when the exemption was codified in the cadet protection regulation and chose to ignore it at the time it was released and discussed here and it would appear he chooses to continue ignore the regulation to this day. It was unusual for one of the most intelligent and articulate CAPTalk posters to suddenly act as though he lacked simple comprehension skills, but it was the form of protest he chose to use.

So for all of our cadet leaders, regardless of senior or cadet status, as of the date of this thread it is completely legal (and in fact, required based on the use of the term will in the regulation) for cadets to wear civilian clothing with their USAF-style uniform if it's necessary based on the weather. Sending a cadet home because they wore their civilian jacket over their ABUs is completely contrary to the cadet regulation and opens leaders to formal complaints from their members (which likely aren't going to result in anything more than the leaders being reminded to follow regulations).

Certainly a pertinent topic with winter encampment photos being posted on social media the past couple of days. The Pacific Region encampment for example looked a bit chilly.

Sure I was aware, and as is appropriate when a conflict in the regs is discovered I sought Commanders Guidance. In this case, that officer is still in my chain (as a Region Commander) and I'm still observing that advice: stick with the long standing admonition of the approved uniform regs as I cited. There are other measures I've cited (e.g. civilian clothing) besides sending people home as a last measure.

The key is in setting and communicating expectations, which frankly is pretty clear throughout 39-1, 60-1 (cf. Table 1, "proper wear of the uniform", 3.1.6.1 "proper wear of the uniform is required", and the Cadet Oath ("I pledge that I will... wear my uniform properly") as opposed to this singular exception in the Cadet Protection policy, 60-2, which appears in conflict with all other references and is the source of the problem.

Of course "comprehension skills" does remain a local barrier, as noted.


V/r
Spam

[TheSkyHornet]

The answer isn't to send cadets home. The answer is to plan for the weather by reading forecasts, having a written activity plan/order, and instructing everyone on what to wear and the alternatives if uniformity cannot be maintained.

It's one thing to plan for conditions and have to adapt when conditions are extremely different from what you anticipated (e.g., you planned for it to be 60 degrees but it ended up being 45 degrees and raining and needed everyone to don whatever they had to stay warm). It's another to plan for certain conditions and fully expecting, if not allowing, everyone to wear whatever they want. If you know it's going to be 45 degrees and raining, and you know your squadron members don't have cold/wet weather gear, and you're expecting them to wear whatever raincoats and rubber boots they want, then that's on you failing to appropriately plan and supervise your members.

And it's not just cadets; I see senior members do it, too. I can't even count the number of times I've had to fork over my gloves or fleece to cadets, seniors, and even parents who didn't come prepared.

Ask yourself: Can this activity be conducted safely and effectively in civilian attire given the weather forecast/environmental conditions we expect to operate in?

On two occasions over the past 6 months, I have said to wear civilian clothing. In one case, it's going to be 80 degrees and downpouring, and we don't all have the appropriate uniform items; let's just wear civies, train, and do what we're here to do and not worry about how we look at that point. In another case, it's going to be cold, misty/drizzling, and we're going to plan to be protected from the elements. In both cases, I had everyone way more comfortable and wearing much more appropriate attire that didn't distract from the activity while maintaining maximum safety.


If you are telling people to do whatever they want before the activity starts, you're not advocating safety at that point; you're advocating non-compliance and using "safety" as a crutch/cop-out.

[Capt Thompson]

The answer isn't to send cadets home. The answer is to plan for the weather by reading forecasts, having a written activity plan/order, and instructing everyone on what to wear and the alternatives if uniformity cannot be maintained.

It's one thing to plan for conditions and have to adapt when conditions are extremely different from what you anticipated (e.g., you planned for it to be 60 degrees but it ended up being 45 degrees and raining and needed everyone to don whatever they had to stay warm). It's another to plan for certain conditions and fully expecting, if not allowing, everyone to wear whatever they want. If you know it's going to be 45 degrees and raining, and you know your squadron members don't have cold/wet weather gear, and you're expecting them to wear whatever raincoats and rubber boots they want, then that's on you failing to appropriately plan and supervise your members.

And it's not just cadets; I see senior members do it, too. I can't even count the number of times I've had to fork over my gloves or fleece to cadets, seniors, and even parents who didn't come prepared.

Ask yourself: Can this activity be conducted safely and effectively in civilian attire given the weather forecast/environmental conditions we expect to operate in?

On two occasions over the past 6 months, I have said to wear civilian clothing. In one case, it's going to be 80 degrees and downpouring, and we don't all have the appropriate uniform items; let's just wear civies, train, and do what we're here to do and not worry about how we look at that point. In another case, it's going to be cold, misty/drizzling, and we're going to plan to be protected from the elements. In both cases, I had everyone way more comfortable and wearing much more appropriate attire that didn't distract from the activity while maintaining maximum safety.


If you are telling people to do whatever they want before the activity starts, you're not advocating safety at that point; you're advocating non-compliance and using "safety" as a crutch/cop-out.

So two weeks ago we had O-Flights. It was bitter cold that morning, and Cadets had to spend some time on the tarmac waiting on planes, doing preflight etc. Flying activities require a CAP uniform, I can't say let's just wear civvies that day, but it was far too cold to be in ABU's without outerwear. Cadets wore civilian coats that day, not due to failure to plan, but because safety takes precedence, and in this case the CP regs overrule 39-1.

[Jester]

The only mention of the black watch cap besides the description, is under the BDU section, stating it is authorized headgear for that uniform. Being that it isn't specifically authorized for ABU's, I would argue it isn't.

That said, we always lean toward safety first, which is why a Cadet can wear a civilian coat over an Air Force style uniform if they don't have one that meets regs. In that vein, I would much rather see a Cadet in a black watch cap because that's all he/she had, than wearing a non-insulated ABU cap and potentially sustaining a cold weather injury.

Strongly disagree with your claim that cadets can wear civilian coats over USAF style uniforms (see R39-1, 1.1.5, below - they are not allowed to). "But, but, Safety" is no excuse for knowingly busting the regs. Get them in the correct USAF style uniform, set the UOD to warm civilian clothing (all civilian/no USAF style), replan the activity so that they are outdoors for only brief periods, or send them home.

Sorry. Complain to the NHQ Uniform Board, not me...

V/R
Spam

CAPR 39-1 3 March 2020
1.1.5. Oversight.
1.1.5.1. COMPLIANCE WITH THIS PUBLICATION IS MANDATORY. This publication is the sole source for wear instructions and authorized items for various uniform combinations as prescribed within unless there is an approved supplement in accordance with paragraph 13.1 of this regulation. Variation from this publication or approved supplements is not authorized. Items not listed in this publication are not authorized for wear with uniforms. Local commanders do not have the authority to waive grooming and appearance standards. [emphasis added]

60-2 conflicts with this take.

[Spam]

The answer isn't to send cadets home. The answer is ...
If you are telling people to do whatever they want before the activity starts, you're not advocating safety at that point; you're advocating non-compliance and using "safety" as a crutch/cop-out.

As usual Hornet has completely captured this in a better way than I could. Complete agreement with his entire post!

Bravo Zulu, Hornet.
Spam

[Spam]

So two weeks ago we had O-Flights. It was bitter cold that morning, and Cadets had to spend some time on the tarmac waiting on planes, doing preflight etc. Flying activities require a CAP uniform, I can't say let's just wear civvies that day, but it was far too cold to be in ABU's without outerwear. Cadets wore civilian coats that day, not due to failure to plan, but because safety takes precedence, and in this case the CP regs overrule 39-1.

So what prevented you from declaring the UOD to be PT uniform with full layered warm outerwear?

(Not trying to be sassy here Captain, just asking seriously - I appreciate your position).

I once had a fellow officer commanding a brand new school squadron call me with this same issue, trying to get financially disadvantaged new cadets (LOTS of them) into the air, and the cold wx was an added complexity. We toyed with dumb ideas like scrounging four full uniforms/coats and having the 36 cadets trade off as they reported to fly.. and finally settled on the PT uniform approach to maximize the focus on learning. We ran it past the WG/CC and were approved to press.

BTW, that fellow officer is now our current WG/CC, so he's probably likely to continue to approve such measures, I'd think. I also see lots of CAP flight academies and NCSAs go with shorts/polos, at least from the pictures, so there would seem to be some precedent beyond mine.

V/r
Spam

[Eclipse]

lots of CAP flight academies and NCSAs go with shorts/polos, at least from the pictures, so there would seem to be some precedent beyond mine.

In most cases these are formally designated activity uniforms approved in advance, often
with (sometimes dubious) justification, but approved nonetheless by someone with the authority to do so.

That's different then an adhoc decision in the moment, which potentially puts everyone at risk.