NHQ looking for the next National Command Chief of CAP

Started by Falling Hare, February 09, 2018, 06:55:17 PM

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NIN

Quote from: CAP_truth on February 18, 2018, 03:30:25 PM
<snip>
Every time we lower are standards membership goes down. Bring back the GAM category for non officer membership with lower dues. Then if someone wishes to become an officer they can upgrade their membership. My opinion.

I missed the GAM category (I remember it, I just don't recall all the specifics)

But this:
QuoteEvery time we lower are standards membership goes down.

Can you be more specific what you mean?

In what way have we "lowered our standards" that has affected membership?
Darin Ninness, Col, CAP
I have no responsibilities whatsoever
I like to have Difficult Adult Conversations™
The contents of this post are Copyright © 2007-2024 by NIN. All rights are reserved. Specific permission is given to quote this post here on CAP-Talk only.

NIN

Quote from: FW on February 18, 2018, 02:07:42 PM
The retention rates seem accurate.  How this relates to the selection process for National Command Chief escapes me though.  That said, I'd love to know what this individual is responsible for.  We've had one for the last 10 or so years.  Has there been any "value added"?   

Oh, come on. this is CAPTalk. Topic drift isn't *new* here, right?   8)
Darin Ninness, Col, CAP
I have no responsibilities whatsoever
I like to have Difficult Adult Conversations™
The contents of this post are Copyright © 2007-2024 by NIN. All rights are reserved. Specific permission is given to quote this post here on CAP-Talk only.

FW

Quote from: NIN on February 18, 2018, 04:00:26 PM
Quote from: FW on February 18, 2018, 02:07:42 PM
The retention rates seem accurate.  How this relates to the selection process for National Command Chief escapes me though.  That said, I'd love to know what this individual is responsible for.  We've had one for the last 10 or so years.  Has there been any "value added"?   

Oh, come on. this is CAPTalk. Topic drift isn't *new* here, right?   8)

In the 15 or so years I've been on this Forum (and its predecessors), I can honestly say.... It's a way of life! >:D ;D

Ned

Quote from: Fester on February 18, 2018, 07:17:43 AM

I'm curious where the loss rates come from.  They seem very high.  But I trust them seeing as they come from NIN and seem to be collaborated by Ned.

My question is, why are we losing so many?  Ned has some ideas that seem valid, but do we have any concrete data?  Do we do any outreach after losing a cadet to find out why they left?

I hope it won't surprise you to learn that we regularly survey former members asking these very questions.

In essence, most cadets leave feeling reasonably positive about the program, but the #1 reason listed is "lost / changed interest."  Other top reasons are "moved, new location with no nearby unit.  (About 10-15% of Americans move every year.). "Poor leadership" is listed, but midway down the list in single digits.

When we try to mine down on "lost / changed interest" responses, it is hard tease out meaningful data. Respondents mention competing activities like sports programs, other youth programs, church activities, and concentrating on academics.

Obviously, much of this is out of our control, but there are certainly things we can address:  ensuring that weekly meetings (>90% of our cadet contact time) are vital and engaging instead of "the AE instructor didn't come tonight, so drill around the parking lot."

And we do indeed use the data to drive retention strategies.  We have adjusted the PT program to make sure cadets are far less likely to "stall" at an early stage in their cadet career specifically to engage them in the promotion system and allow for new duties and positions.  We have significantly invested in the encampment program to make it more accessible because one of the strongest indicators for renewal is encampment attendance.

We have specifically addressed the "poor leadership" issue by revamping the TLC program and placing incentives in the system to encourage attendance by CP seniors.  We also made the TLC program itself more accessible by re-designing it into a one day course for most squadron-level CP officers.

We routinely task the NCAC to provide concrete ideas to improve retention and listen carefully to their input.

Obviously, despite a great deal of effort by dedicated CP officers from the local unit and higher, our first year retention numbers remain well below 50%.

I repeat my request:

What specific things can we do to improve retention?

Ned Lee
National Cadet Program Manager

(Currently attending the CAWG Cadet Programs Conference at Camp San Luis Obispo with nearly 400 enthusiastic cadets from every wing in PCR.  It is an amazing activity.  But these troops are not the retention problem, it is the 1100 CAWG cadets are not here having a great time.)



OldGuy

Quote from: Ned on February 18, 2018, 07:07:20 PM
[
I repeat my request:

What specific things can we do to improve retention?

Ned Lee
National Cadet Program Manager

(Currently attending the CAWG Cadet Programs Conference at Camp San Luis Obispo with nearly 400 enthusiastic cadets from every wing in PCR.  It is an amazing activity.  But these troops are not the retention problem, it is the 1100 CAWG cadets are not here having a great time.)
Repeat - engage where they are, that means texting and social media. Get the upper echelon perfectionists out of the way! Let the CC at the unit level be the arbiter, not a Wing/Regional/National nitpicker destroy enthusiasm and initiative.

Fester

Quote from: Ned on February 18, 2018, 07:07:20 PM
Quote from: Fester on February 18, 2018, 07:17:43 AM

I'm curious where the loss rates come from.  They seem very high.  But I trust them seeing as they come from NIN and seem to be collaborated by Ned.

My question is, why are we losing so many?  Ned has some ideas that seem valid, but do we have any concrete data?  Do we do any outreach after losing a cadet to find out why they left?

I hope it won't surprise you to learn that we regularly survey former members asking these very questions.

In essence, most cadets leave feeling reasonably positive about the program, but the #1 reason listed is "lost / changed interest."  Other top reasons are "moved, new location with no nearby unit.  (About 10-15% of Americans move every year.). "Poor leadership" is listed, but midway down the list in single digits.

When we try to mine down on "lost / changed interest" responses, it is hard tease out meaningful data. Respondents mention competing activities like sports programs, other youth programs, church activities, and concentrating on academics.

Obviously, much of this is out of our control, but there are certainly things we can address:  ensuring that weekly meetings (>90% of our cadet contact time) are vital and engaging instead of "the AE instructor didn't come tonight, so drill around the parking lot."

And we do indeed use the data to drive retention strategies.  We have adjusted the PT program to make sure cadets are far less likely to "stall" at an early stage in their cadet career specifically to engage them in the promotion system and allow for new duties and positions.  We have significantly invested in the encampment program to make it more accessible because one of the strongest indicators for renewal is encampment attendance.

We have specifically addressed the "poor leadership" issue by revamping the TLC program and placing incentives in the system to encourage attendance by CP seniors.  We also made the TLC program itself more accessible by re-designing it into a one day course for most squadron-level CP officers.

We routinely task the NCAC to provide concrete ideas to improve retention and listen carefully to their input.

Obviously, despite a great deal of effort by dedicated CP officers from the local unit and higher, our first year retention numbers remain well below 50%.

I repeat my request:

What specific things can we do to improve retention?

Ned Lee
National Cadet Program Manager

(Currently attending the CAWG Cadet Programs Conference at Camp San Luis Obispo with nearly 400 enthusiastic cadets from every wing in PCR.  It is an amazing activity.  But these troops are not the retention problem, it is the 1100 CAWG cadets are not here having a great time.)

Awesome.  Thanks for the info, Ned.

Yes, it is "news to me" that we regularly survey former members.  But, in the defense of those at NHQ, I've only rejoined in the last 2 weeks after a 20 year break.  And much has changed.

I'm happy to see that a system is in place for discovering why we retain so few cadets.  I'm not surprised by the data you mention.  And I like the changes that have been made to address the problem.

IMHO, I think one of the things we could do to increase Cadet retention is to TRY to move away from "Senior Squadrons" and "Cadet Squadrons" and to really strive to focus on Composite Squadrons as the basic local unit level.  I don't have the data to support it, but I would bet that Cadets in Cadet Squadrons don't get the opportunities for O'Rides or flight training that those in Composite Squadrons do.  And I've always believed that flight time is a HUGE factor in Cadet retention.

In the town I live in, there is both a Senior Squadron and a Cadet Squadron.  Both located at the local airport.  I don't understand why.  The reason is "well, not every Senior wants to participate in the CP."  I'm sorry, but that's one of our 3 missions.  Why join an organization when you're not wanting to support 1/3 of what that organization does?
1stLt, CAP
Squadron CC
Group CPO
Eaker - 1996

OldGuy

Every unit in my Wing is a composite squadron. That is not the issue.

Fester

Quote from: Cicero on February 18, 2018, 08:23:41 PM
Every unit in my Wing is a composite squadron. That is not the issue.

Only 9 of 25 units in my Wing are.
1stLt, CAP
Squadron CC
Group CPO
Eaker - 1996

GaryVC

This thread has drifted (what's new?). In the Nevada wing there are 15 squadrons. Two are or were school squadrons (cadet squadrons).  There is one senior squadron and the rest are composite squadrons. We meet at the same place as the senior squadron and we are now doing ES activities with them.  I learned recently that some senior members are actually afraid of cadets because of the cadet protection policy. If there is a cure for that, it is to have them work with our cadets in Emergency Services.

(Some of our cadets are attending the California Wing Cadet Program Conference the weekend. I hope they said hello to Col Lee.)


OldGuy

Quote from: Fester on February 18, 2018, 08:28:45 PM
Quote from: Cicero on February 18, 2018, 08:23:41 PM
Every unit in my Wing is a composite squadron. That is not the issue.

Only 9 of 25 units in my Wing are.
And that has nothing to do with Cadet retention rates.

Fester

Quote from: Cicero on February 18, 2018, 11:39:02 PM
Quote from: Fester on February 18, 2018, 08:28:45 PM
Quote from: Cicero on February 18, 2018, 08:23:41 PM
Every unit in my Wing is a composite squadron. That is not the issue.

Only 9 of 25 units in my Wing are.
And that has nothing to do with Cadet retention rates.

I respectfully disagree. 

How successful would you imagine a Cadet Squadron with NO aircraft, NO pilots, and especially with NO O'Ride pilots is at getting O'Rides for their Cadets?  And I'm pretty sure we can all agree that flight time is a HUGE factor in retention.
1stLt, CAP
Squadron CC
Group CPO
Eaker - 1996

Fester

It may not be an issue for you or your wing.  But I'm willing to bet a few bucks that it IS an issue for some.
1stLt, CAP
Squadron CC
Group CPO
Eaker - 1996

abdsp51

Quote from: Fester on February 19, 2018, 12:22:11 AM
Quote from: Cicero on February 18, 2018, 11:39:02 PM
Quote from: Fester on February 18, 2018, 08:28:45 PM
Quote from: Cicero on February 18, 2018, 08:23:41 PM
Every unit in my Wing is a composite squadron. That is not the issue.

Only 9 of 25 units in my Wing are.
And that has nothing to do with Cadet retention rates.

I respectfully disagree. 

How successful would you imagine a Cadet Squadron with NO aircraft, NO pilots, and especially with NO O'Ride pilots is at getting O'Rides for their Cadets?  And I'm pretty sure we can all agree that flight time is a HUGE factor in retention.

Reality says otherwise.  There are plenty of composite and cadet squadrons who are successful without pilots and without aircraft and without o-rides. 

And hate to break it to you but participation is not required in all three areas members are free to choose their areas of participation.

OldGuy

Quote from: Fester on February 19, 2018, 12:22:54 AM
It may not be an issue for you or your wing.  But I'm willing to bet a few bucks that it IS an issue for some.
Data? Or just noise?

OldGuy

Quote from: Fester on February 19, 2018, 12:22:54 AM
It may not be an issue for you or your wing.  But I'm willing to bet a few bucks that it IS an issue for some.

BTW I came from an urban cadet squadron, no aircraft. We had O-rides. I got a flight school scholarship. Most of my cadets were inner city Hispanics who went on to do awesome things.

TheSkyHornet

Just curious as to the status of the last or incumbent Command Chief...

lordmonar

Quote from: TheSkyHornet on February 19, 2018, 03:46:58 PM
Just curious as to the status of the last or incumbent Command Chief...
Work and Real Life got in the way of his volunteerism. 
PATRICK M. HARRIS, SMSgt, CAP

kwe1009

Quote from: Fester on February 19, 2018, 12:22:11 AM
Quote from: Cicero on February 18, 2018, 11:39:02 PM
Quote from: Fester on February 18, 2018, 08:28:45 PM
Quote from: Cicero on February 18, 2018, 08:23:41 PM
Every unit in my Wing is a composite squadron. That is not the issue.

Only 9 of 25 units in my Wing are.
And that has nothing to do with Cadet retention rates.

I respectfully disagree. 

How successful would you imagine a Cadet Squadron with NO aircraft, NO pilots, and especially with NO O'Ride pilots is at getting O'Rides for their Cadets?  And I'm pretty sure we can all agree that flight time is a HUGE factor in retention.

I am a former commander of a cadet squadron with NO aircraft and NO pilots and it was a very successful program before my time and after I left.  It has produced 8 Spaatz cadets in 5 years and also the National Cadet of the Year once.  They have won too many wing and Region Cadet and Color Guard competitions to count and consistently have one of the highest 0-ride rates in the Wing.  We have at least a dozen cadet either go to an Academy or accept a full ROTC scholarship.  Over the last 10 years the cadet attendance has been between 25 and 40 cadets with about 50-60 on the books and rarely more than 3 Senior Members actively participating.

It can be done.

capmaj

Drifting mildly back on to the topic..... a question. If a CAP Lt Col, Level V, who is an honorably discharged E-5 veteran, wanted to convert to NCO status, what would be his or her NCO grade in CAP? Would they remain at E-5 upon entry or would a higher NCO grade be granted?

kwe1009

Quote from: capmaj on February 19, 2018, 09:48:17 PM
Drifting mildly back on to the topic..... a question. If a CAP Lt Col, Level V, who is an honorably discharged E-5 veteran, wanted to convert to NCO status, what would be his or her NCO grade in CAP? Would they remain at E-5 upon entry or would a higher NCO grade be granted?

SSgt.  From CAPR 35-5 Section 6, "Professional Development levels and time-in-grade requirements are non-waiverable. Request for waivers based on duty performance may be requested. The request should include a CAP Form 2 as well as letter of justification. All waivers to duty position requirements for the grades of senior NCOs (MSgt, SMSgt, CMSgt) must be submitted along with supporting documentation through the region commander to the National Commander."