Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?
December 16, 2017, 06:49:51 AM
Home Help Login Register
News:

CAP Talk  |  General Discussion  |  Uniforms & Awards  |  Topic: Air Force doing away with weight standards?
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
Pages: 1 2 [3] 4 5  All Print
Author Topic: Air Force doing away with weight standards?  (Read 6082 times)
Vegas1972
Recruit

Posts: 27
Unit: PCR-NV

« Reply #40 on: October 09, 2017, 10:38:07 PM »

If you have it, why wouldn't you wear it?

Much more comfortable flying the plane in the polo instead of a starched shirt. Easier to maintain. Have 3 to rotate. Stains and spills don't show as bad, as I'm snacking on those longs flights. No worry about nameplate and epaulets, etc., etc.

Must be nice to be able to fly in the Golf Shirt combo. In Pacific Region the only authorized uniform for powered flight is the Flight Suit unless you're flying a CD mission and the customer requests no uniforms.

Is that in a written supplement somewhere for PCR?  If it is, it’s not being enforced region wide. 
Logged
"Life is tough, but it's tougher if you're stupid.", Sgt. John M. Stryker.
SarDragon
Global Moderator

Posts: 10,085
Unit: NAVAIRPAC

« Reply #41 on: October 09, 2017, 11:34:23 PM »

Is that in a written supplement somewhere for PCR?  If it is, it’s not being enforced region wide.

Well, there does not appear to be a region supplement to that effect.
Logged
Dave Bowles
Maj, CAP
AT1, USN Retired
Mitchell Award (unnumbered)
C/WO, CAP, Ret
Eclipse
Too Much Free Time Award
***
Posts: 28,080

« Reply #42 on: October 09, 2017, 11:49:42 PM »

I thought they dropped that nonsense a few years ago.
Logged

"The man who does more than he is paid for will soon be paid for more than he does." - Napoleon Hill.
The contents of this post are Copyright © 2017 by eclipse. All rights are reserved. Specific permission is given to quote this post here on CAP-Talk only.

PHall
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 5,884

« Reply #43 on: October 09, 2017, 11:56:45 PM »

From what I have personally seen in CAWG, at least for real and exercise missions, no flight suit = no fly.
And my personal preference is to wear the Nomex Bag. But I think almost 30 years of military flying may have biased me just a little bit.
Even when I'm just flying in a Cessna for fun you will most most likely find me in all cotton (Levi's and T-Shirt).
I've seen the results of a flash fire on polyester. I don't need to be shrink wrapped!
Logged
Fubar
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 626

« Reply #44 on: October 10, 2017, 01:02:41 AM »

Great - so why not wear it to meetings?

Same reasons as when flying. It's more comfortable, easier to maintain, nothing on it to get "wrong" and get yelled at for, easier to keep clean than a white shirt, and at least around here you won't stick out in a crowd.
Logged
Eclipse
Too Much Free Time Award
***
Posts: 28,080

« Reply #45 on: October 10, 2017, 01:06:22 AM »

So the whole "clothes make the man", "model the behavior you expect", "dressing for the occasion, vs. occasionally dressing",
that's off now?

One of the intentions of the uniform is to require the attention to detail that the accoutrements dictate, and
to put members in the mindset that CAP is supposed to be "more" then your normal workday.

If you can't read 39-1, and you're so gunshy about getting help, I don't know what that says, but it says something.
Logged

"The man who does more than he is paid for will soon be paid for more than he does." - Napoleon Hill.
The contents of this post are Copyright © 2017 by eclipse. All rights are reserved. Specific permission is given to quote this post here on CAP-Talk only.

kwe1009
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 758

« Reply #46 on: October 10, 2017, 10:48:52 AM »

So the whole "clothes make the man", "model the behavior you expect", "dressing for the occasion, vs. occasionally dressing",
that's off now?

One of the intentions of the uniform is to require the attention to detail that the accoutrements dictate, and
to put members in the mindset that CAP is supposed to be "more" then your normal workday.

If you can't read 39-1, and you're so gunshy about getting help, I don't know what that says, but it says something.

Unfortunately too many Senior Members view the polo combination as a uniform for all occasions when it fact it is classified as a working uniform just like the BDU/BBDU/ABU. 
Logged
Mitchell 1969
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 693
Unit: PCR-CA-051

« Reply #47 on: October 10, 2017, 12:33:49 PM »


Too bad that many senior members are under the impression, mostly due to being misinformed by their chain of command, that the required uniform is the Golf Shirt Combo. And many of them, even after being shown the 39-1, will not wear the White Aviator shirt Combo.

Yeah we've had many discussions of that. Bottom line is that I'm required to 'have it'.  But I've never been required to 'wear it'.  So yes, I 'have it' sitting in a plastic bag in my closet were it will stay. I'm 'legal'.  LOL

YMMV but at least once a year there is some event that requires the blues or corporate equivalent.  Additionally, when I was a commander I encouraged my seniors to wear the uniform we were requiring of the cadets.  So on promotion/award night I expected to see either blues or the corporate equivalent.

The “corporate equivalent” to blues is hardly equivalent when it does not include a cap, coat or even the same color trousers from
One person to another.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Logged
_________________
Bernard J. Wilson, Major, CAP

Mitchell 1969; Earhart 1971; Eaker 1973. Cadet Flying Encampment, License, 1970. IACE New Zealand 1971; IACE Korea 1973.

CAP has been bery, bery good to me.
Alaric
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 756

« Reply #48 on: October 10, 2017, 12:52:32 PM »


Too bad that many senior members are under the impression, mostly due to being misinformed by their chain of command, that the required uniform is the Golf Shirt Combo. And many of them, even after being shown the 39-1, will not wear the White Aviator shirt Combo.

Yeah we've had many discussions of that. Bottom line is that I'm required to 'have it'.  But I've never been required to 'wear it'.  So yes, I 'have it' sitting in a plastic bag in my closet were it will stay. I'm 'legal'.  LOL

YMMV but at least once a year there is some event that requires the blues or corporate equivalent.  Additionally, when I was a commander I encouraged my seniors to wear the uniform we were requiring of the cadets.  So on promotion/award night I expected to see either blues or the corporate equivalent.

The “corporate equivalent” to blues is hardly equivalent when it does not include a cap, coat or even the same color trousers from
One person to another.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

It is the uniform we have that is approved for wear, for purposes of CAP it is considered equivalent.  You can always submit your ideas for changing it through the appropriate changes :)

Logged
Luis R. Ramos
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 2,535

« Reply #49 on: October 10, 2017, 03:37:10 PM »

Why does it has to have a cap or hat to be equivalent? The notion it has to have a hat or cap is in my opinion silly.
Logged

Squadron Administrative Officer
Squadron Communication Officer
Squadron Emergency Services Officer
Eclipse
Too Much Free Time Award
***
Posts: 28,080

« Reply #50 on: October 10, 2017, 04:32:23 PM »

Why does it has to have a cap or hat to be equivalent? The notion it has to have a hat or cap is in my opinion silly.

All formal military-style uniforms have headgear, it's part of the package - you'll have to ask the Romans why.

In order for a uniform combination to be "equal", it has to allow for the same wear and similar appearance of everyone,
which includes decorations, badges, etc.

Anything else is "different", and in an organization that is extremely focused on bling, one can certainly make the
argument that the current Real-Estate Agent / Olympic Judge jacket is "less' when viewed alongside peers or
worse subordinates.

That doesn't even bring into the arguments the nonsense people try to introduce such as "only salute when wearing a hat",
"officers don't wear ribbons on their shirts", etc., etc.

It very simple, it's either equal or it isn't, and one only need look at the far too many in the leadership, wing, region, and national,
that do not abide by the wear regs to know whether it's "important".
Logged

"The man who does more than he is paid for will soon be paid for more than he does." - Napoleon Hill.
The contents of this post are Copyright © 2017 by eclipse. All rights are reserved. Specific permission is given to quote this post here on CAP-Talk only.

tkelley004
Recruit

Posts: 30
Unit: PCR-WA-015

« Reply #51 on: October 10, 2017, 04:53:30 PM »

Glad you're enjoying the game.

I would not plan on looking at USAFA as a reflection of AF health/wellness requirements.
-In order to be a USAFA cadet, cadets must meet USAFA-specific weight standards
-If they exceed the standards, they will receive body-fat taping.
-If they fail that, they'll be placed on "weight management", a form of probation which requires them to lose (or gain, in some cases) weight
-Certain sports teams sort of get an exception from this process in season-but must pass an AF fitness test before commissioning, to include the waist measurement. Is it "fair"? Not sure, but USAFA football players are not the Air Force.

Practically speaking, once you've enlisted or graduated from your commissioning source, you're not going to be weighed regularly. The AF mostly uses the waist measurement and the fitness test to determine your fitness. Obviously, certain career fields (aircrew, spec ops, etc) are a little different.

Happy to provide any other insight as requested.

My last job on active duty I worked with an officer who was a USAFA grad and football lineman, He had a limited amount of time after graduation to get into Active Duty weight and fitness standards. I don't remember the time, but as the unit fitness monitor I know he did struggle, I would say he had a harder road than someone who did not play major college football while attending a service academy.
Logged
Tim Kelley, Lt Col, CAP
Commander
Bellingham Composite Squadron
Retired USAF SMSgt
etodd
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 865

« Reply #52 on: October 10, 2017, 05:09:04 PM »

Why does it has to have a cap or hat to be equivalent? The notion it has to have a hat or cap is in my opinion silly.

All formal military-style uniforms have headgear, it's part of the package - you'll have to ask the Romans why.

In order for a uniform combination to be "equal", it has to allow for the same wear and similar appearance of everyone,
which includes decorations, badges, etc.

Anything else is "different", and in an organization that is extremely focused on bling, one can certainly make the
argument that the current Real-Estate Agent / Olympic Judge jacket is "less' when viewed alongside peers or
worse subordinates.

That doesn't even bring into the arguments the nonsense people try to introduce such as "only salute when wearing a hat",
"officers don't wear ribbons on their shirts", etc., etc.

It very simple, it's either equal or it isn't, and one only need look at the far too many in the leadership, wing, region, and national,
that do not abide by the wear regs to know whether it's "important".

Well, that kinda covers it for me.  I'm a civilian volunteer helping out an organization that I like. I'm not there to 'be military'. Its all fine and dandy for those who want that. But we are an organization of thousands of civilians who have many varied views on everything. A mixed bag of individuals trying to do 'their thing', while helping the cause.
Logged
MS - MO - AP - MP
Eclipse
Too Much Free Time Award
***
Posts: 28,080

« Reply #53 on: October 10, 2017, 05:44:36 PM »

That looks great on a T-Shirt, but that's not how a uniformed organization works, and
is essentially the reason CAP is in the situation it is in regards to a lot of issues.

Few and far between would be any other organizations or similar scope and mission
that would allow it's members to decide what clothing is appropriate in a given situation,
even private employment.
Logged

"The man who does more than he is paid for will soon be paid for more than he does." - Napoleon Hill.
The contents of this post are Copyright © 2017 by eclipse. All rights are reserved. Specific permission is given to quote this post here on CAP-Talk only.

EMT-83
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 1,824

« Reply #54 on: October 10, 2017, 05:58:36 PM »

If only there was a CSU available. Wait, never mind.
Logged
etodd
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 865

« Reply #55 on: October 10, 2017, 06:02:06 PM »


Few and far between would be any other organizations or similar scope and mission
that would allow it's members to decide what clothing is appropriate in a given situation,
even private employment.

Huh? Members don't decide.  I've always worn an approved UOD. My preferred one just always happens to be on the list.
Logged
MS - MO - AP - MP
Eclipse
Too Much Free Time Award
***
Posts: 28,080

« Reply #56 on: October 10, 2017, 06:22:06 PM »

This isn't just specific to you.  Members "decide" all the time, and many just "do their own thing".
Logged

"The man who does more than he is paid for will soon be paid for more than he does." - Napoleon Hill.
The contents of this post are Copyright © 2017 by eclipse. All rights are reserved. Specific permission is given to quote this post here on CAP-Talk only.

etodd
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 865

« Reply #57 on: October 10, 2017, 07:02:11 PM »

This isn't just specific to you.  Members "decide" all the time, and many just "do their own thing".

Are they turned around at the door and sent home to change or not come back? If not, the problem is on a higher level.
Logged
MS - MO - AP - MP
Fubar
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 626

« Reply #58 on: October 10, 2017, 11:45:19 PM »

So the whole "clothes make the man", "model the behavior you expect", "dressing for the occasion, vs. occasionally dressing",
that's off now?

I don't think that's "off now" and so far wearing an approved uniform that consists of a polo shirt and grey pants has been appropriate for every occasion I've worn it. Meetings, training, & missions. A few of them they were specified as the UOD.

When a police chief walks into an EOC wearing a polo shirt with her department logo on it, she's just as respected as when she wears the fancy blue shirt with the bling on it. I can't tell you how many business meetings I've been to wearing a polo shirt, which is all your standard squadron meeting night is (only perhaps slightly more boring).

You asked why someone would just stick to wearing the polo shirt for meetings and the expressed opinions are reasonable. Just because you like dressing up doesn't mean everyone likes dressing up. Don't express your personal preferences as law.

If you can't read 39-1, and you're so gunshy about getting help, I don't know what that says, but it says something.

It certainly does, but I doubt you and I would agree on specifically what it says (especially since I had to read 39-1 to find out about the polo shirt).
Logged
isuhawkeye
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 1,305

John's web site
« Reply #59 on: October 11, 2017, 09:14:20 AM »

The start of this discussion involved service academy athletes and height-weight standards.  There is a great book on this topic called the civil war https://www.amazon.com/Civil-War-College-Footballs-Rivalry/dp/0316278246/ the book tracks a year with both the army and navy football teams.  They spend a significant amount of time following offensive and defensive linemen who have to maintain a standard when they enter, then they need to bulk up for their team and then they have to cut weight at the end of their sports career.  It is a very good read. 
Logged
Pages: 1 2 [3] 4 5  All Print 
CAP Talk  |  General Discussion  |  Uniforms & Awards  |  Topic: Air Force doing away with weight standards?
 


Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP SMF 2.0.13 | SMF © 2016, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
Page created in 0.117 seconds with 20 queries.
click here to email me