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CAP Talk  |  General Discussion  |  Uniforms & Awards  |  Topic: Award Applications
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FNelson
Recruit

Posts: 6
Unit: SWR-NM-018

« on: September 18, 2017, 12:50:17 PM »

I am a cadet who is approaching my second year of service and the 60 hours I need for my volunteer service ribbon and I need help understanding the application processes to get recognized for both achievements. I was reading some past posts on this site and figured out that I needed to fill out a CAPF 2A which I began to do, but then I began to have some trouble understanding how to proceed. I selected the boxes for the Red Service Ribbon and the Cadet Community Service Ribbon in section III and the section at the bottom of the first page for the signatures. Now that I have done this do I need to just turn it to my squadron commander for approval or do I need to make sure it gets to other people higher up on the chain of command (Wing Level?).
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Spam
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 915
Unit: GA-001

« Reply #1 on: September 18, 2017, 01:01:02 PM »

Hi FNelson.


First, you need to do a separate Form 2A for each award as they're two separate issues. (Yay - two ribbons rather than one, right).


First, do one for the 2 year service award (red service ribbon). Be sure to list your effective dates of service (join date to present) documenting same. Don't submit until you meet the criteria (2 years).


Then do one for the community service award. In the same manner, list in the remarks section all your hours, and attach any appropriate documentation (letters of reference, etc.) to substantiate that you've met the requirement. You must have that documentation of volunteer service outside of CAP. See: http://capnhq.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/1431/kw/community%20service/session/L3RpbWUvMTUwNTc1Mzg2NS9zaWQvbkxuM1kqc24%3D


Then submit - to your SQUADRON.  Best of luck.


V/r
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Eclipse
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Posts: 27,898

« Reply #2 on: September 18, 2017, 01:24:17 PM »

As a cadet, you should not be filling out the forms, ala Radar o'Reilly, your Squadron PDO should be doing that.

You can mention the 2-years while you are submitting the substantiation for the CSR, they should do the rest.

I also would not suggest combining disparate awards on the same form, as it's possible one or the other might get
denied for a legitimate reason, in which case both would be, again, this is a job for the PDO.
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"Effort" does not equal "results".
The contents of this post are Copyright © 2017 by eclipse. All rights are reserved. Specific permission is given to quote this post here on CAP-Talk only.

arajca
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 4,146

« Reply #3 on: September 18, 2017, 01:37:16 PM »

As a cadet, you should not be filling out the forms, ala Radar o'Reilly, your Squadron PDO should be doing that.

You can mention the 2-years while you are submitting the substantiation for the CSR, they should do the rest.

I also would not suggest combining disparate awards on the same form, as it's possible one or the other might get
denied for a legitimate reason, in which case both would be, again, this is a job for the PDO.
Eclipse, you know darn well not every unit's DA or DP stays on top of these things. There is nothing wrong with a cadet filling out the forms. Also, the PDO does not submit awards for cadets, that is the DA, DP, or CDC's job.

FNelson, good for you to track these things and making sure you receive the awards you have earned.
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Eclipse
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« Reply #4 on: September 18, 2017, 01:48:11 PM »

Just because "not everyone is on top of it" doesn't make it the responsibility of the member(s)
when you're trying to set proper expectations.

There's nothing wrong with initiative, but there's also such a thing as "someone else's job".
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"Effort" does not equal "results".
The contents of this post are Copyright © 2017 by eclipse. All rights are reserved. Specific permission is given to quote this post here on CAP-Talk only.

EMT-83
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 1,811

« Reply #5 on: September 18, 2017, 02:49:32 PM »

PDO doing cadet forms? You mean the Senior Member Professional Development Officer?
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kwe1009
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 705

« Reply #6 on: September 18, 2017, 02:52:25 PM »

Honestly, the cadet just needs to talk to their chain of command.  The 2A could be done for all anyone knows. 
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Eclipse
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Posts: 27,898

« Reply #7 on: September 18, 2017, 03:04:07 PM »

PDO doing cadet forms? You mean the Senior Member Professional Development Officer?

Is that a title now?  I wasn't aware there was a distinction.

Granted, primary duties are substantially around seniors, however, as per CAPR 20-1, Page 35:

Assist unit members in proper completion and processing of forms if needed.

Correctly prepare documentation in support of training awards for the commanderís review.

Submit applications for awards, ensure they are processed in a timely fashion and presented appropriately


I see no "Senior-only" distinction.
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"Effort" does not equal "results".
The contents of this post are Copyright © 2017 by eclipse. All rights are reserved. Specific permission is given to quote this post here on CAP-Talk only.

Spam
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 915
Unit: GA-001

« Reply #8 on: September 18, 2017, 03:41:49 PM »


FNelson: recommend you ignore the usual and inevitable byplay here...  ::)


Good for you for taking personal responsibility for your CAP career. Learning self reliance helps you now, and helps you later, as a cadet officer, when you'll be doing CAP Staff Duty Analyses to see how senior member officers "should" be doing their jobs.

Again, best of luck.

V/r
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Luis R. Ramos
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 2,509

« Reply #9 on: September 18, 2017, 03:51:52 PM »

I agree with Eclipse on what he posted, except what he posted about cadets should not be preparing 2a's. Why shouldn't cadets initiate 2a's?

Quote
From 39-3:

10. Procedures for Recommending Decorations.
 
     a. Who May Initiate Recommendations. 
Any CAP member having knowledge of an act or service meriting recognition may initiate a recommendation for an award, except that awards concerning commanders must be initiated at a higher command level or by the appointing authority for CSAG members.
     b. How to Initiate Recommendations.  Recommendations will be submitted through channels to National Headquarters in two copies on CAP Form 120, Recommendation for Decoration.  Extreme care should be exercised to ensure that all items are complete.
            (1) Justification will be included in the narrative statement and should be specific as to inclusive dates, places, and facts relating to the heroism, achievement or service.  The narrative must clearly portray how the unitís or individualís achievements meet or exceed the criteria set forth in paragraph 9.
            (2) A proposed citation to accompany the award will be attached if the Silver Medal of Valor, Bronze Medal of Valor or Distinguished Service Award is being recommended.  (See Attachment 4.)


In this section it states "Any CAP member." I interpret that to mean that cadets should also be able to initiate recommendations.


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Fubar
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 614

« Reply #10 on: September 18, 2017, 03:56:32 PM »

I'm pretty sure we lost the cadet at "Radar O'Reilly"
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EMT-83
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 1,811

« Reply #11 on: September 18, 2017, 04:14:06 PM »

PDO doing cadet forms? You mean the Senior Member Professional Development Officer?

Is that a title now?  I wasn't aware there was a distinction.

Granted, primary duties are substantially around seniors, however, as per CAPR 20-1, Page 35:

Assist unit members in proper completion and processing of forms if needed.

Correctly prepare documentation in support of training awards for the commanderís review.

Submit applications for awards, ensure they are processed in a timely fashion and presented appropriately


I see no "Senior-only" distinction.

Ah, the elusive Cadet Professional Development Program.
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Майор Хаткевич
200,000th Post Author
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 6,075
Unit: GLR-IL-049

« Reply #12 on: September 18, 2017, 04:22:36 PM »

PDO doing cadet forms? You mean the Senior Member Professional Development Officer?

Is that a title now?  I wasn't aware there was a distinction.

Granted, primary duties are substantially around seniors, however, as per CAPR 20-1, Page 35:

Assist unit members in proper completion and processing of forms if needed.

Correctly prepare documentation in support of training awards for the commanderís review.

Submit applications for awards, ensure they are processed in a timely fashion and presented appropriately


I see no "Senior-only" distinction.

Ah, the elusive Cadet Professional Development Program.


I'll bite. Who does the forms for cadets then?
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TheSkyHornet
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 875

« Reply #13 on: September 18, 2017, 05:00:44 PM »

I see this as a function of the Personnel Officer, not the PDO.
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EMT-83
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 1,811

« Reply #14 on: September 18, 2017, 06:02:05 PM »

I see this as a function of the Personnel Officer, not the PDO.

A cadet squadron isn't required to have either.
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Vegas1972
Recruit

Posts: 22
Unit: PCR-NV

« Reply #15 on: September 18, 2017, 06:14:10 PM »

As the CDC, I recently tasked one of our newly minted C/ 2dLt's on the cadet staff as a Flight Commanders(and also my daughter, but that's not relevant to this discussion), to research what reg covers Red Service Ribbons, what form to use to request same, and fill out said form for herself and turn in to me or personnel officer for processing.    I did so so that she would have to dig into where to find the regs, find the proper reg, and learn how to take some basic responsibility for herself.  Also, the next time someone else on staff or a cadet in her flight asks about an award, or where to find a reg, she might be better equipped to provide an answer and serve on a staff in a cadet run organization.   IMO, most cadets who are reaching the 2 year mark should be of a rank and maturity that we can ask this sort of responsibility of them.
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Eclipse
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Posts: 27,898

« Reply #16 on: September 18, 2017, 07:37:01 PM »

I see this as a function of the Personnel Officer, not the PDO.

A cadet squadron isn't required to have either.

FTFY - Technically true, but a DP, DA, nor PDO is required anywhere.
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The contents of this post are Copyright © 2017 by eclipse. All rights are reserved. Specific permission is given to quote this post here on CAP-Talk only.

Jester
Seasoned Member

Posts: 209

« Reply #17 on: September 18, 2017, 08:13:25 PM »

I try to take care of every piece of paperwork the cadet side generates. As CDC I task the cadet staff with keeping up on stuff like service ribbons. They route them to me and I route them up from there.   They partner with the senior admin and personnel officer for assistance.


I drill into their heads that administration stuff like submitting awards is a huge part of how a leader takes care of their people.
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SarDragon
Global Moderator

Posts: 10,019
Unit: NAVAIRPAC

« Reply #18 on: September 18, 2017, 09:18:08 PM »

Quote from: CAPR 20-1
Each unit commander should develop and post a unit organizational chart indicating the name and grade of the member filling each position. In smaller units, one person may fill more than one position; however, someone should be responsible for each task outlined in each position description so the entire unit is aware of who is responsible for which duties.
Emphasis mine.

Admin Officer is listed as a primary position in every one of the org charts, with Personnel Officer being optional. Awards come under the primary purview of the Personnel Officer (see below).

Quote from: CAPR 20-1
Personnel Officer

Manages and administers the CAP personnel program and associated administrative procedures to include:
Membership records and applications
Confidential screening (FBI fingerprint cards)
Organizational actions (charters, deactivations, etc.)
Appointments
Promotions and demotions
Awards and decorations
Duty assignments
Transfers
Retirements
Membership terminations
Uniforms
The personnel officer at all levels should be familiar with the Constitution and Bylaws, CAPP 200 and CAP directives in the 20, 35, and 39 series.
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Dave Bowles
Maj, CAP
AT1, USN Retired
Mitchell Award (unnumbered)
C/WO, CAP, Ret
kwe1009
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 705

« Reply #19 on: September 19, 2017, 09:54:55 AM »

I try to take care of every piece of paperwork the cadet side generates. As CDC I task the cadet staff with keeping up on stuff like service ribbons. They route them to me and I route them up from there.   They partner with the senior admin and personnel officer for assistance.


I drill into their heads that administration stuff like submitting awards is a huge part of how a leader takes care of their people.

This is exactly what I try to do as well.  If you are truly trying to teach cadets how to be leaders, some of that training must be about the admin side as well. 
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Pylon
Administrator

Posts: 5,153
Unit: NER-NH-038

Michael Kieloch, Marketing Communications & PR Leadership
« Reply #20 on: September 19, 2017, 10:32:59 AM »


❗❗❗❗


Thanks to those who actually helped the OP learn about the process for documenting and requesting appropriate approval for awards.


For those of you bickering about who can and can't fill out forms, I suggest you listen up: take your curmudgeonly nitpicking elsewhere.


If a cadet had come to me with even an attempt at properly filling out a CAPF 2A requesting an award, I'd have been pretty darn proud that the cadet looked into the process of awards approval, learned something, and took initiative. I'd not have chastised him or her for their initiative or for "doing someone else's job." (because we all know there are tons of volunteer senior members in squadrons around the country complaining and ultimately leaving CAP because someone else was helping them do their work and there wasn't enough for them to do)


Lastly, I've about had it with some of these types of derailment of legitimate discussions by members who came here for advice and insight. This happens far too often. I'm posting this publicly here rather than addressing individual members by PM because everybody needs to hear this: Knock. It. Off.  Some people are soon going to be invited to take their internetting elsewhere if this tone and direction of posting doesn't change.
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Michael F. Kieloch, Maj, CAP
Concord Composite Squadron, NH       
LSThiker
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 1,690
Unit: Earth

« Reply #21 on: September 19, 2017, 11:37:03 AM »

Edit:  I should read the whole thread because my post after Pylon's was pretty anti-climatic.  His post deserves a much better post after those words of wisdom.  Sorry, Pylon.

I am a cadet who is approaching my second year of service and the 60 hours I need for my volunteer service ribbon and I need help understanding the application processes to get recognized for both achievements. I was reading some past posts on this site and figured out that I needed to fill out a CAPF 2A which I began to do, but then I began to have some trouble understanding how to proceed. I selected the boxes for the Red Service Ribbon and the Cadet Community Service Ribbon in section III and the section at the bottom of the first page for the signatures. Now that I have done this do I need to just turn it to my squadron commander for approval or do I need to make sure it gets to other people higher up on the chain of command (Wing Level?).

FNelson,

I would like to reference you CAPR 39-3, Section F, Paragraph 19:

Quote
19. Administration Procedures for Award of Activity and Service Ribbons. The individual
member is responsible for preparing and submitting to the unit commander CAP Form 2a, Request
for and Approval of Personnel Actions, when the requirements for an activity or service ribbon have
been completed. The CAP Form 2a is then forwarded by the unit commander to the appropriate
approving authority. (If the unit commander has been delegated approving authority by the wing
commander as outlined in paragraph 18b, the unit commander simply approves the form and returns
it to the recipient for placement in the memberís personnel file.) Upon approval, activity and service
ribbons are purchased by the awarding unit or by the individual recipient, as appropriate.

Both the Community Service Ribbon and Red Service Ribbon are considered "Service Ribbons". 

For the approval, it is dependent on your wing and/or group.  These ribbons are approved by the Wing Commander by default, but may be delegated to the Squadron Commander. 

Quote
Wing commanders award activity and service ribbons to members of their staffs and to
members of units within their wings. Authority to award these activity and service ribbons may be
delegated to group and squadron commanders at the discretion of the wing commander

Therefore, it is best to fill out the CAPF 2a and submit to your chain of command.  They will know the routing.  Most likely, your Squadron Commander is the approval authority for these two awards. 
« Last Edit: September 19, 2017, 11:40:40 AM by LSThiker » Logged
Майор Хаткевич
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Unit: GLR-IL-049

« Reply #22 on: September 19, 2017, 11:59:21 AM »

For those of you bickering about who can and can't fill out forms, I suggest you listen up: take your curmudgeonly nitpicking elsewhere.


This topic is different from any other OP how?

If a cadet had come to me with even an attempt at properly filling out a CAPF 2A requesting an award, I'd have been pretty darn proud that the cadet looked into the process of awards approval, learned something, and took initiative. I'd not have chastised him or her for their initiative or for "doing someone else's job." (because we all know there are tons of volunteer senior members in squadrons around the country complaining and ultimately leaving CAP because someone else was helping them do their work and there wasn't enough for them to do)



Which no one has said. As a matter of fact, I know in the past Eclipse encouraged me as a cadet to do just that.

Lastly, I've about had it with some of these types of derailment of legitimate discussions by members who came here for advice and insight. This happens far too often. I'm posting this publicly here rather than addressing individual members by PM because everybody needs to hear this: Knock. It. Off.  Some people are soon going to be invited to take their internetting elsewhere if this tone and direction of posting doesn't change.



You must have woke up on the wrong side of the bed today. EVERY. SINGLE.OP.HERE gets sidetracked, but there's always a core of good responses, and the discussions can lead to changing opinions as well. Not sure what your issue is today, specifically, but I'll take the advice, and take my internetting elsewhere from here on out.
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Pylon
Administrator

Posts: 5,153
Unit: NER-NH-038

Michael Kieloch, Marketing Communications & PR Leadership
« Reply #23 on: September 19, 2017, 03:00:31 PM »

You must have woke up on the wrong side of the bed today. EVERY. SINGLE.OP.HERE gets sidetracked, but there's always a core of good responses, and the discussions can lead to changing opinions as well. 


Thank you for providing me with an opportunity to highlight to the community the issue I just posted about. Instead of disagreeing with my moderating politely, we jumped right to the ad hominem about the side of bed I "must have woke[n] up on" today. This type of posting is not welcome here. Make note.


You're also right in that this has gone on far too long in nearly every single thread. You're wrong in that this is merely about threads that "get sidetracked" ó wandering topics are not at issue. The tone, vitriol, in-fighting, belittling, snobbery, chastisement, and general maltreatment of other members and users is at issue.


This may be the first thread I've happened on since I've discussed these issues with other staff, but believe me ó this is neither the only nor last thread where I'll be calling out this behavior.


CAPTalk was not created to be a platform of pomposity, bombast, and arrogance for a handful of CAP members or former members. It was designed to be a professional resource for all. The tolerance for this behavior stops now.


Not sure what your issue is today, specifically, but I'll take the advice, and take my internetting elsewhere from here on out.


Sounds good to all of us here at CAPTalk. Thank you.
« Last Edit: September 19, 2017, 03:16:25 PM by SarDragon » Logged
Michael F. Kieloch, Maj, CAP
Concord Composite Squadron, NH       
TheSkyHornet
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 875

« Reply #24 on: September 20, 2017, 05:05:43 PM »

We use have a Cadet Personnel Officer/NCO in our org chart responsible for assisting with this. I prefer the individual cadets don't do it themselves, mostly because it becomes inconsistent. But I commend the research.

For the sake of understanding job responsibilities, I'd prefer our C/S1 handles working with our C/XO and squadron Personnel Officer on these types of things, because I want it to be someone's "duty." It allows me to have cadets take on an additional staff role with a designated function than to expect everyone to do it themselves and, frankly, screw it up.

That's my own preference, but I suppose it's not wrong for cadets to take the initiative and prepare their own 2A. I would expect a level of guidance to go along with it. I would not expect A C/Amn to have a grasp on that level of reality. I guess, if they do the research, good for them. But expecting them to figure it out on their own, nah.

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CAP Talk  |  General Discussion  |  Uniforms & Awards  |  Topic: Award Applications
 


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