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Jester
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Posts: 209

« on: September 12, 2017, 04:16:50 PM »



Reddit rumor is that this is supposed to be the direction of the new service coat if the field likes it (without the extra Honor Guard flair of course).

I love it, and will gladly retire my old one as soon as this one becomes available (and authorized for CAP).
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Commo
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« Reply #1 on: September 12, 2017, 05:46:17 PM »

What uniform coat is that in the picture, and what color is it?

It's hard to tell in the picture if it's  dark navy, charcoal, black, etc.  The stripes at the cuff resemble the Army dress blues before the blue uniform became the class A.

Commo
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Eclipse
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« Reply #2 on: September 12, 2017, 05:53:49 PM »

So back to "I Dream of Jeannie" but with shiny buttons and a darker cloth...
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N6RVT
Member

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« Reply #3 on: September 12, 2017, 06:02:27 PM »

So back to "I Dream of Jeannie" but with shiny buttons and a darker cloth...

The "Tony Nelson" coat was the shade 1084 I wore as a cadet - the bottom pockets were on the outside.  This looks like the coat we had just prior to what we have now, but in a darker fabric.

The darker fabric IS just for honor guards, which means just going back to the previous coat, only in the current shade 1625.

Which I would be totally happy with.
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Dwight J. Dutton, CAPT CAP
Mitchell 1975 (before numbers)
Jester
Seasoned Member

Posts: 209

« Reply #4 on: September 12, 2017, 06:10:48 PM »

What uniform coat is that in the picture, and what color is it?

It's hard to tell in the picture if it's  dark navy, charcoal, black, etc.  The stripes at the cuff resemble the Army dress blues before the blue uniform became the class A.

Commo


USAF Honor Guard. They have all that stuff on there, sewn in creases, etc. required by reg. Silver braid down the pants, extra silver trim on the service cap, different cap device, etc.
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N6RVT
Member

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« Reply #5 on: September 12, 2017, 07:08:12 PM »

The current honor guard uniform is all thats left of the "Informal Black" which was the USAF equivalent of the army dress blue.  When the regular service blue went to the McPeak style the honor guard didn't change and kept the style of the existing coat.

Which unfortunately leads me to believe that this is just a wishful thinking rumor.
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Dwight J. Dutton, CAPT CAP
Mitchell 1975 (before numbers)
Matthew Congrove
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« Reply #6 on: September 13, 2017, 01:25:01 AM »

Could be worse...

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Maj. Matthew Congrove, CAP

N6RVT
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« Reply #7 on: September 13, 2017, 01:16:41 PM »

The WW1 design was overdoing it.  The WW2 "Hap Arnold" heritage uniform was perfect, though

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Dwight J. Dutton, CAPT CAP
Mitchell 1975 (before numbers)
THRAWN
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« Reply #8 on: September 13, 2017, 01:58:47 PM »

Overdoing it? Tell it to the Marines...
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Strup
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arajca
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« Reply #9 on: September 13, 2017, 02:02:31 PM »

Overdoing it? Tell it to the Marines...
For the Marines, it's long been a part of their history. For the Air Force, not so much...
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THRAWN
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« Reply #10 on: September 13, 2017, 02:03:43 PM »

Overdoing it? Tell it to the Marines...
For the Marines, it's long been a part of their history. For the Air Force, not so much...

Really? The uniform that is in the photo was called the Mitchell coat. Wanna venture a guess as to why?
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Strup
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Jester
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« Reply #11 on: September 13, 2017, 02:33:32 PM »

As a replacement for the service coat, which it was intended for, it was a bit much for everyday wear.  I can't imagine a CSAF wearing it to testify before Congress alongside the other JCS members. 

As a separate dress uniform, maybe, but the last the the AF needs is additional uniforms.
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arajca
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« Reply #12 on: September 13, 2017, 02:42:37 PM »

Overdoing it? Tell it to the Marines...
For the Marines, it's long been a part of their history. For the Air Force, not so much...

Really? The uniform that is in the photo was called the Mitchell coat. Wanna venture a guess as to why?
And when was the last time the AF had that as a uniform? Heck, when was the last time the Army had that as a uniform?
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THRAWN
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« Reply #13 on: September 13, 2017, 02:44:04 PM »

Overdoing it? Tell it to the Marines...
For the Marines, it's long been a part of their history. For the Air Force, not so much...

Really? The uniform that is in the photo was called the Mitchell coat. Wanna venture a guess as to why?
And when was the last time the AF had that as a uniform? Heck, when was the last time the Army had that as a uniform?

Doesn't really matter, as it has "long been a part of their history".
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Strup
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FallenTX
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« Reply #14 on: September 14, 2017, 08:40:33 AM »



Reddit rumor is that this is supposed to be the direction of the new service coat if the field likes it (without the extra Honor Guard flair of course).

I love it, and will gladly retire my old one as soon as this one becomes available (and authorized for CAP).

Do you happen to have a source link for that thread? I'd be curious to see it in context.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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Jester
Seasoned Member

Posts: 209

« Reply #15 on: September 14, 2017, 08:56:02 AM »



Reddit rumor is that this is supposed to be the direction of the new service coat if the field likes it (without the extra Honor Guard flair of course).

I love it, and will gladly retire my old one as soon as this one becomes available (and authorized for CAP).

Do you happen to have a source link for that thread? I'd be curious to see it in context.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


https://www.reddit.com/r/AirForce/comments/6zotqb/new_honor_guard_uniform/?st=J7KGIUXO&sh=a71b13aa
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jeders
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« Reply #16 on: September 14, 2017, 10:39:14 AM »

Overdoing it? Tell it to the Marines...
For the Marines, it's long been a part of their history. For the Air Force, not so much...

Really? The uniform that is in the photo was called the Mitchell coat. Wanna venture a guess as to why?
And when was the last time the AF had that as a uniform? Heck, when was the last time the Army had that as a uniform?

Doesn't really matter, as it has "long been a part of their history".

Long been a part of the history is not the same as "was a part of the history a long time ago."
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If you are confident in you abilities and experience, whether someone else is impressed is irrelevant. - Eclipse
kwe1009
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« Reply #17 on: September 14, 2017, 10:45:29 AM »

Quote

https://www.reddit.com/r/AirForce/comments/6zotqb/new_honor_guard_uniform/?st=J7KGIUXO&sh=a71b13aa

So one of the responses on that thread is "Last I heard the idea was to have the AF HG wear it and see what the rest of the Force thought and if it was liked we'd switch"

I don't recall a time when AF leadership cared about what the members thought of a possible uniform change.  I was in during the McPeak days and saw the dress uniform go from military to USAir pilot. 

/Rant
The CMSAF came and spoke at my Airman Leadership School class as was field testing the new service uniform.  Everyone in the class hated it and told him (the white stripes, no collar brass, stripes on sleeves for officer rank, no name tag, etc) that is looked like crap and not a military uniform.  His response was "this is the uniform we are going with and you don't have to like it but you will have to wear it."  Pure leadership there.  He then went on to berate on of my classmates because he didn't want to join the NCO club because he didn't have the money for the dues.  The CMSAF response to that was, "get a part-time job or get promoted.  If you aren't a member of the NCO club you are basically a dirt bag Airman."  Yes, the CMSAF called someone a dirt bag Airman in front of about 20 people for not joining the NCO club.  /Rant over
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THRAWN
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« Reply #18 on: September 14, 2017, 10:49:48 AM »

Quote

https://www.reddit.com/r/AirForce/comments/6zotqb/new_honor_guard_uniform/?st=J7KGIUXO&sh=a71b13aa

So one of the responses on that thread is "Last I heard the idea was to have the AF HG wear it and see what the rest of the Force thought and if it was liked we'd switch"

I don't recall a time when AF leadership cared about what the members thought of a possible uniform change.  I was in during the McPeak days and saw the dress uniform go from military to USAir pilot. 

/Rant
The CMSAF came and spoke at my Airman Leadership School class as was field testing the new service uniform.  Everyone in the class hated it and told him (the white stripes, no collar brass, stripes on sleeves for officer rank, no name tag, etc) that is looked like crap and not a military uniform.  His response was "this is the uniform we are going with and you don't have to like it but you will have to wear it."  Pure leadership there.  He then went on to berate on of my classmates because he didn't want to join the NCO club because he didn't have the money for the dues.  The CMSAF response to that was, "get a part-time job or get promoted.  If you aren't a member of the NCO club you are basically a dirt bag Airman."  Yes, the CMSAF called someone a dirt bag Airman in front of about 20 people for not joining the NCO club.  /Rant over

If it's the one I'm thinking of, he was a prime example of all the wrongs with the SAC-itude....
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Strup
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Майор Хаткевич
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« Reply #19 on: September 14, 2017, 11:44:47 AM »

Quote

https://www.reddit.com/r/AirForce/comments/6zotqb/new_honor_guard_uniform/?st=J7KGIUXO&sh=a71b13aa

So one of the responses on that thread is "Last I heard the idea was to have the AF HG wear it and see what the rest of the Force thought and if it was liked we'd switch"

I don't recall a time when AF leadership cared about what the members thought of a possible uniform change.  I was in during the McPeak days and saw the dress uniform go from military to USAir pilot. 

/Rant
The CMSAF came and spoke at my Airman Leadership School class as was field testing the new service uniform.  Everyone in the class hated it and told him (the white stripes, no collar brass, stripes on sleeves for officer rank, no name tag, etc) that is looked like crap and not a military uniform.  His response was "this is the uniform we are going with and you don't have to like it but you will have to wear it."  Pure leadership there.  He then went on to berate on of my classmates because he didn't want to join the NCO club because he didn't have the money for the dues.  The CMSAF response to that was, "get a part-time job or get promoted.  If you aren't a member of the NCO club you are basically a dirt bag Airman."  Yes, the CMSAF called someone a dirt bag Airman in front of about 20 people for not joining the NCO club.  /Rant over

If it's the one I'm thinking of, he was a prime example of all the wrongs with the SAC-itude....


Well the timeline is pretty solidly right pre-McPeak uniform.
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Jester
Seasoned Member

Posts: 209

« Reply #20 on: September 14, 2017, 01:12:17 PM »

I'm all-in on the current SECAF/CSAF/CMSAF team.  I definitely never really had a "good" one while I was in.
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kwe1009
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« Reply #21 on: September 14, 2017, 04:54:02 PM »



If it's the one I'm thinking of, he was a prime example of all the wrongs with the SAC-itude....

Pfingston of course
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THRAWN
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Posts: 1,809

« Reply #22 on: September 14, 2017, 04:58:13 PM »



If it's the one I'm thinking of, he was a prime example of all the wrongs with the SAC-itude....

Pfingston of course

Yep. That's all I got to say....
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Strup
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ColonelJack
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« Reply #23 on: September 15, 2017, 06:42:35 AM »

I asked on another forum about why, when Gen. Fogelman reversed most of what Gen. McPeak had done to the uniform, they didn't just go back to the "Tony Nelson" coat.  The reply I got was that Fogelman didn't want all the money McPeak had spent on the new uniforms wasted, so they came up with the retrofit idea of putting epaulets back on the service coat, slowly returning cutouts to the lapels, etc.

My own preference would, of course, be going back to the Tony Nelson coat, in current shade and with the shiny insignia.

The "Hap Arnold Heritage" design works if you look good with a belt around your jacket, which I don't.

Jack
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Lt. Col. Jack Bagley, Civil Air Patrol
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Jester
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« Reply #24 on: September 15, 2017, 07:56:31 AM »

I never liked the big Elvis collar or belt on the test Arnold coat.
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kwe1009
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« Reply #25 on: September 15, 2017, 10:53:09 AM »

I asked on another forum about why, when Gen. Fogelman reversed most of what Gen. McPeak had done to the uniform, they didn't just go back to the "Tony Nelson" coat.  The reply I got was that Fogelman didn't want all the money McPeak had spent on the new uniforms wasted, so they came up with the retrofit idea of putting epaulets back on the service coat, slowly returning cutouts to the lapels, etc.

My own preference would, of course, be going back to the Tony Nelson coat, in current shade and with the shiny insignia.

The "Hap Arnold Heritage" design works if you look good with a belt around your jacket, which I don't.

Jack

That is what happened.  Fogelman hated the McPeak uniform and wore BDUs, even when DVs, like McPeak, would visit.  It would make McPeak mad.
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Майор Хаткевич
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« Reply #26 on: September 15, 2017, 11:57:32 AM »

I find it interesting that the Hap Arnold Heritage (with narrower collar) was canned, but generals get to turn band uniforms into "command ceremonial"



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Mitchell 1969
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« Reply #27 on: September 16, 2017, 01:36:56 AM »

I find it interesting that the Hap Arnold Heritage (with narrower collar) was canned, but generals get to turn band uniforms into "command ceremonial"





"Generals" don't. Your first Exemplar photo shows the General who was in charge of the research and testing for both the Mitchell and Arnold heritage uniforms.

The other uniforms depicted are restricted to use by the USAF Chief of Staff and the Chief Master Sergeant of the Air Force.

Nothing to see here. No generals running rampant.


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MSG Mac
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« Reply #28 on: September 16, 2017, 02:33:47 PM »

 The Air Force seems to change uniforms every 10 years
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Michael P. McEleney
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PHall
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« Reply #29 on: September 16, 2017, 05:26:24 PM »

The Air Force seems to change uniforms every 10 years

It's been more then 10 years since the last major uniform change (ABU's).
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Panther
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« Reply #30 on: September 16, 2017, 05:59:29 PM »

Honestly, I prefer the old style service jacket I still wear as a cadet. The new one looks more "businessman" than military IMHO. USAFA has a nice cadet service coat similar to the old style as well.
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PHall
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« Reply #31 on: September 16, 2017, 06:49:28 PM »

Honestly, I prefer the old style service jacket I still wear as a cadet. The new one looks more "businessman" than military IMHO. USAFA has a nice cadet service coat similar to the old style as well.

That jacket has to be 15 years old or older. How well does it match your pants? They are supposed to match.
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AlphaSigOU
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« Reply #32 on: September 17, 2017, 09:29:38 AM »

Flag officers have a wide latitude to wear distinctive uniform combinations reserved exclusively for them. For the Air Force, this includes the following:


Hap Arnold wing and star roller belt buckle
Army officer lightweight jacket in AF blue with embroidered name and wings
Air Force general officer pistol and ceremonial pistol belt
Band weenie ceremonial dress


General officers have their own "private tailor shop" at Wright-Patterson AFB, where short-run uniform wear tests are made. Some MCSS stores at bases with a heavy GO population will include GO bus driver and bucket hats (for the females), though females can now wear the male service and flight caps.


Generals (and sometimes their staffs) will wear-test uniform proposals before rolling out to an extended wear test or all-service use.
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Майор Хаткевич
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« Reply #33 on: September 18, 2017, 11:12:07 AM »

Honestly, I prefer the old style service jacket I still wear as a cadet. The new one looks more "businessman" than military IMHO. USAFA has a nice cadet service coat similar to the old style as well.

That jacket has to be 15 years old or older. How well does it match your pants? They are supposed to match.


You and I both know that they don't match in 99% of the cases. I had a hard time matching pants to my old style coat 10 years ago, when that uniform combo was already pretty much 15 years out of date.


But hey, when do we get to call the "new style" the current style, and the "old style" the vintage style? We're just a few years away from it being 25+ years old. 1994 wasn't it?
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arajca
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« Reply #34 on: September 18, 2017, 11:55:32 AM »

Honestly, I prefer the old style service jacket I still wear as a cadet. The new one looks more "businessman" than military IMHO. USAFA has a nice cadet service coat similar to the old style as well.

That jacket has to be 15 years old or older. How well does it match your pants? They are supposed to match.


You and I both know that they don't match in 99% of the cases. I had a hard time matching pants to my old style coat 10 years ago, when that uniform combo was already pretty much 15 years out of date.


But hey, when do we get to call the "new style" the current style, and the "old style" the vintage style? We're just a few years away from it being 25+ years old. 1994 wasn't it?
How 'bout we just phase out the old style?
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jeders
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« Reply #35 on: September 18, 2017, 11:59:22 AM »

How 'bout we just phase out the old style?

As much as I prefer the old style from an aesthetic point of view, I have to agree 100% with this. Let's get rid of it and move on.
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If you are confident in you abilities and experience, whether someone else is impressed is irrelevant. - Eclipse
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