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Ethan Larsen
Recruit

Posts: 32

« on: July 26, 2017, 12:49:38 AM »

Literally the last thing I had for my Mitchell was the Aerospace test. I was sure I had this cat in the bag, and then boom, the floor wen't out from under my feet :( I failed the test with 78%, 80% minimum. I had been doing review for the test from quizlet, which had 115 flash cards on the Mitchell. I had them all 100% down, but when I went to take the test, literally nothing I had studied was there. This maked me feel like I picked thr wrong edition of test. The options for the Ae were 2nd and 3rd edition, but the quizlet cards did not have and edition marked out that they were made for. Does anyone know anything about the editions that the quizlet thing was on, or about any advice in general?

Flash cards I used: https://quizlet.com/6607894/flashcards
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C/2d Lt  Ethan Larsen
abdsp51
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Posts: 2,327
Unit: Classified

« Reply #1 on: July 26, 2017, 12:53:10 AM »

Study your books...
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SarDragon
Global Moderator

Posts: 10,085
Unit: NAVAIRPAC

« Reply #2 on: July 26, 2017, 01:17:19 AM »

Yup. The books are your best source. Look at the objectives they call them outcomes) in each section, and see what they want you to take away from the lesson. That's where the test questions are supposed to be taken from.

Here's a sample -
Module 2 - AIRCRAFT SYSTEMS AND AIRPORTS
Chapter 1 - Airplane Systems

Learning Outcomes
- Explain how a reciprocating engine operates.
- Identify parts of the airplane engine when viewed externally.
- Describe how a jet engine operates.
- Identify basic cockpit-mounted powerplant controls.
- Identify basic flight instruments.

If you can recall that info from memory, for each module and chapter, you can pass the test.

Also, make sure the test you are taking and the Aerospace Dimensions Modules you are studying are the same edition.
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Dave Bowles
Maj, CAP
AT1, USN Retired
Mitchell Award (unnumbered)
C/WO, CAP, Ret
Spam
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Posts: 970
Unit: GA-001

« Reply #3 on: July 26, 2017, 09:16:42 AM »

Amen to all the above. As the Navy says "in gouge we trust" (gouge being the unofficial study guide) but the corollary to that is "live by the gouge, DIE by the gouge" because the unofficial stuff can so often be very outdated and WRONG...


So, my advice is the same: don't rely on amateurish quizlets as an authoritative source (any more than you should be using Wikipedia as an authority for ANY research).  In general, you shouldn't to use ANY unofficial, non-peer reviewed, inaccurate sources produced by amateurs as the sole basis for your academic preparation. Stick with the real source material (as cited here) and those learning objectives as your guide.


Best wishes - repost in a week or two and let us know when you've passed - hopefully with a 90 something plus percent!


Good luck to you!
Spam
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Ethan Larsen
Recruit

Posts: 32

« Reply #4 on: July 26, 2017, 12:00:46 PM »

Amen to all the above. As the Navy says "in gouge we trust" (gouge being the unofficial study guide) but the corollary to that is "live by the gouge, DIE by the gouge" because the unofficial stuff can so often be very outdated and WRONG...


So, my advice is the same: don't rely on amateurish quizlets as an authoritative source (any more than you should be using Wikipedia as an authority for ANY research).  In general, you shouldn't to use ANY unofficial, non-peer reviewed, inaccurate sources produced by amateurs as the sole basis for your academic preparation. Stick with the real source material (as cited here) and those learning objectives as your guide.


Best wishes - repost in a week or two and let us know when you've passed - hopefully with a 90 something plus percent!


Good luck to you!
Spam

Thank you so much for the help.
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C/2d Lt  Ethan Larsen
Ethan Larsen
Recruit

Posts: 32

« Reply #5 on: July 26, 2017, 12:05:44 PM »

Yup. The books are your best source. Look at the objectives they call them outcomes) in each section, and see what they want you to take away from the lesson. That's where the test questions are supposed to be taken from.

Here's a sample -
Module 2 - AIRCRAFT SYSTEMS AND AIRPORTS
Chapter 1 - Airplane Systems

Learning Outcomes
- Explain how a reciprocating engine operates.
- Identify parts of the airplane engine when viewed externally.
- Describe how a jet engine operates.
- Identify basic cockpit-mounted powerplant controls.
- Identify basic flight instruments.

If you can recall that info from memory, for each module and chapter, you can pass the test.

Also, make sure the test you are taking and the Aerospace Dimensions Modules you are studying are the same edition.

I think this is the main reason I didn't pass. I took the wrong edition. Even though I will not continue to use the quizlet thing for review, pretty much all of it matched with my books. But the night after I failed, nothing on the 2nd edition test I took seemed to be in the books, so I'm pretty sure I was reviewing for the wrong edition, which would explain it. It's a bit annoying since I am positive I could have passed the 3rd edition test with something like a 95% score, but a little mistake like selecting the wrong edition is what let me down. Made more frustrating because our next meeting will be in a month.
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C/2d Lt  Ethan Larsen
MSG Mac
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Posts: 1,796
Unit: MER-MD-071

« Reply #6 on: July 26, 2017, 06:25:28 PM »

The Testing Officer should have shredded the old test as soon as the last cadet studying under the old book either passed or left the program. But the questions on either test are generally the same or have slight differences. If possible have the TO set you up on the Internet version of the test, so it is aligned with the latest version.
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Michael P. McEleney
Lt Col CAP
MSG USA (Retired)
Ethan Larsen
Recruit

Posts: 32

« Reply #7 on: July 26, 2017, 07:47:31 PM »

The Testing Officer should have shredded the old test as soon as the last cadet studying under the old book either passed or left the program. But the questions on either test are generally the same or have slight differences. If possible have the TO set you up on the Internet version of the test, so it is aligned with the latest version.

A quick look inside my book shows me that I have a 3rd edition book. As long as I click on the 3rd edition test, I should be fine, right?
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C/2d Lt  Ethan Larsen
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« Reply #8 on: July 26, 2017, 11:30:24 PM »

yes
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Michael P. McEleney
Lt Col CAP
MSG USA (Retired)
PHall
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Posts: 5,886

« Reply #9 on: July 27, 2017, 08:19:39 PM »

Cadet, it's up to you, the one taking the test, to make sure you're taking the correct test.
Since you're the one who has to deal with the results, not the Test Control Officer...
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Ethan Larsen
Recruit

Posts: 32

« Reply #10 on: August 13, 2017, 03:20:05 PM »

Amen to all the above. As the Navy says "in gouge we trust" (gouge being the unofficial study guide) but the corollary to that is "live by the gouge, DIE by the gouge" because the unofficial stuff can so often be very outdated and WRONG...


So, my advice is the same: don't rely on amateurish quizlets as an authoritative source (any more than you should be using Wikipedia as an authority for ANY research).  In general, you shouldn't to use ANY unofficial, non-peer reviewed, inaccurate sources produced by amateurs as the sole basis for your academic preparation. Stick with the real source material (as cited here) and those learning objectives as your guide.


Best wishes - repost in a week or two and let us know when you've passed - hopefully with a 90 something plus percent!


Good luck to you!
Spam

Have been studying from the books and have failed again, 78%. Hopefully I will get it next time.
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C/2d Lt  Ethan Larsen
Eclipse
Too Much Free Time Award
***
Posts: 28,082

« Reply #11 on: August 13, 2017, 05:37:54 PM »

Don't be too hard on yourself - your experience is fairly typical.  The AE test
seems to be the one that gives many cadets some difficultly, and multiple attempts isn't uncommon.
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"The man who does more than he is paid for will soon be paid for more than he does." - Napoleon Hill.
The contents of this post are Copyright 2017 by eclipse. All rights are reserved. Specific permission is given to quote this post here on CAP-Talk only.

GaryVC
Forum Regular

Posts: 124
Unit: PCR-NV-070

« Reply #12 on: August 13, 2017, 07:02:53 PM »

Don't be too hard on yourself - your experience is fairly typical.  The AE test
seems to be the one that gives many cadets some difficultly, and multiple attempts isn't uncommon.

This is certainly true in our squadron.
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Airplane girl
Member

Posts: 58

« Reply #13 on: August 13, 2017, 09:23:12 PM »

If you're using quizlet, it might be helpful to make your own flashcard sets, since typing things can help information stick in your brain better. That's what I did when I was studying for my Mitchell.
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Dank Meme Master
Spam
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Posts: 970
Unit: GA-001

« Reply #14 on: August 13, 2017, 11:39:35 PM »

Amen to all the above. As the Navy says "in gouge we trust" (gouge being the unofficial study guide) but the corollary to that is "live by the gouge, DIE by the gouge" because the unofficial stuff can so often be very outdated and WRONG...


So, my advice is the same: don't rely on amateurish quizlets as an authoritative source (any more than you should be using Wikipedia as an authority for ANY research).  In general, you shouldn't to use ANY unofficial, non-peer reviewed, inaccurate sources produced by amateurs as the sole basis for your academic preparation. Stick with the real source material (as cited here) and those learning objectives as your guide.


Best wishes - repost in a week or two and let us know when you've passed - hopefully with a 90 something plus percent!


Good luck to you!
Spam

Have been studying from the books and have failed again, 78%. Hopefully I will get it next time.

Pause. Deep breath. Go to original source material (NOT ONLINE QUIZLETS WRITTEN BY POTENTIALLY FLAWED PEERS) and study the real manuals. Read the "learning objectives" for each chapter. Then, after making notes, try it again.

Don't forget, these "quizlets" are not done by CAP. They are done by other teen agers trying to help, and although well intentioned could be very, very inaccurate.

Keep plugging. Orville and Wilbur took months to figure out the basics.

V/r
Spam

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Ethan Larsen
Recruit

Posts: 32

« Reply #15 on: August 23, 2017, 06:50:01 PM »

Amen to all the above. As the Navy says "in gouge we trust" (gouge being the unofficial study guide) but the corollary to that is "live by the gouge, DIE by the gouge" because the unofficial stuff can so often be very outdated and WRONG...


So, my advice is the same: don't rely on amateurish quizlets as an authoritative source (any more than you should be using Wikipedia as an authority for ANY research).  In general, you shouldn't to use ANY unofficial, non-peer reviewed, inaccurate sources produced by amateurs as the sole basis for your academic preparation. Stick with the real source material (as cited here) and those learning objectives as your guide.


Best wishes - repost in a week or two and let us know when you've passed - hopefully with a 90 something plus percent!


Good luck to you!
Spam

Thank you for the help, I have finally passed. Sadly I didn't make a 90%, but I was close. Got my Mitchell.
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C/2d Lt  Ethan Larsen
Spam
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 970
Unit: GA-001

« Reply #16 on: August 23, 2017, 07:15:42 PM »

Very well, C/CMSGT (P) Larsen. Press on, and do your best on the next Achievement!

V/r
Spam

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Ethan Larsen
Recruit

Posts: 32

« Reply #17 on: August 23, 2017, 07:59:35 PM »

Amen to all the above. As the Navy says "in gouge we trust" (gouge being the unofficial study guide) but the corollary to that is "live by the gouge, DIE by the gouge" because the unofficial stuff can so often be very outdated and WRONG...


So, my advice is the same: don't rely on amateurish quizlets as an authoritative source (any more than you should be using Wikipedia as an authority for ANY research).  In general, you shouldn't to use ANY unofficial, non-peer reviewed, inaccurate sources produced by amateurs as the sole basis for your academic preparation. Stick with the real source material (as cited here) and those learning objectives as your guide.

Yes, I have finally passed. Just a little note, the questions do not seem to be taken from learning outcomes.

Best wishes - repost in a week or two and let us know when you've passed - hopefully with a 90 something plus percent!


Good luck to you!
Spam

Have been studying from the books and have failed again, 78%. Hopefully I will get it next time.

Pause. Deep breath. Go to original source material (NOT ONLINE QUIZLETS WRITTEN BY POTENTIALLY FLAWED PEERS) and study the real manuals. Read the "learning objectives" for each chapter. Then, after making notes, try it again.

Don't forget, these "quizlets" are not done by CAP. They are done by other teen agers trying to help, and although well intentioned could be very, very inaccurate.

Keep plugging. Orville and Wilbur took months to figure out the basics.

V/r
Spam

I finally passed. Just a note, the test's questions do not seem to be taken from learning objectives. I didn't find much similarity. The way I passec was by using 500+ sticky notes and annotating every book...
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C/2d Lt  Ethan Larsen
jeders
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Posts: 2,013

« Reply #18 on: August 24, 2017, 01:44:06 PM »

I finally passed. Just a note, the test's questions do not seem to be taken from learning objectives. I didn't find much similarity. The way I passec was by using 500+ sticky notes and annotating every book...

Unfortunately I've heard this a number of times. The leadership test seems to be ok, but the Mitchell aerospace test is almost a roll of the dice if you pass it or not, unless you memorize every word in the books; and even then you're not guaranteed.
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If you are confident in you abilities and experience, whether someone else is impressed is irrelevant. - Eclipse
Майор Хаткевич
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Posts: 6,075
Unit: GLR-IL-049

« Reply #19 on: August 24, 2017, 02:37:48 PM »


but the Mitchell aerospace test is almost a roll of the dice if you pass it or not, unless you memorize every word in the books; and even then you're not guaranteed.


What?


That's bollocks. It's based on the AE modules, and AE terms/concepts that cadets are expected to learn over the course of their membership up to the Mitchell. Not once did I have a cadet report that the test had zero to do the books they used to study. And if my passive review of it is correct, it's no different than the tests I took in 2005 (in terms of material, not necessarily lack of changes).
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SarDragon
Global Moderator

Posts: 10,085
Unit: NAVAIRPAC

« Reply #20 on: August 24, 2017, 04:35:54 PM »

Learning objectives aren't the answers; they are the concepts behind the answers.

Here's a sample: List the forces of flight.

If you can do that, you know the answers. (Thrust, drag, lift, gravity)

Here's another: Describe the Otto Cycle. Very simply - suck, squeeze, bang, blow.
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Dave Bowles
Maj, CAP
AT1, USN Retired
Mitchell Award (unnumbered)
C/WO, CAP, Ret
Ethan Larsen
Recruit

Posts: 32

« Reply #21 on: August 24, 2017, 06:34:46 PM »


but the Mitchell aerospace test is almost a roll of the dice if you pass it or not, unless you memorize every word in the books; and even then you're not guaranteed.


What?


That's bollocks. It's based on the AE modules, and AE terms/concepts that cadets are expected to learn over the course of their membership up to the Mitchell. Not once did I have a cadet report that the test had zero to do the books they used to study. And if my passive review of it is correct, it's no different than the tests I took in 2005 (in terms of material, not necessarily lack of changes).

I mean, I find that learning objectives are way to broad, given lots of questions are very specific. Anyway, outcomes did not really help, I just went through every page and annotated on everything that I assumed or knew to be relevant. Writing things helps you remember them.
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C/2d Lt  Ethan Larsen
Ethan Larsen
Recruit

Posts: 32

« Reply #22 on: August 24, 2017, 06:38:26 PM »

I finally passed. Just a note, the test's questions do not seem to be taken from learning objectives. I didn't find much similarity. The way I passec was by using 500+ sticky notes and annotating every book...

Unfortunately I've heard this a number of times. The leadership test seems to be ok, but the Mitchell aerospace test is almost a roll of the dice if you pass it or not, unless you memorize every word in the books; and even then you're not guaranteed.

I just about annotated and took note of every important concept in all the books. Then I did tons of review and used my experience with the past 2 attempts to determine what would be important on the test. Even so, I didn't even make 90, so yeah, I definitely know what your talking about.
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C/2d Lt  Ethan Larsen
Майор Хаткевич
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Posts: 6,075
Unit: GLR-IL-049

« Reply #23 on: August 25, 2017, 12:14:55 PM »



I mean, I find that learning objectives are way to broad, given lots of questions are very specific. Anyway, outcomes did not really help, I just went through every page and annotated on everything that I assumed or knew to be relevant. Writing things helps you remember them.


Learning objectives are broad because they are...objectives.


You need to know the specifics, which is what the test is looking for. It's a cumulative test, on the leadership, aerospace, drill, C&C, etc that you've learned through at least 18 months of membership. Congrats on the pass, because what you describe as your successful process, was the intended goal. Just remember not to forget the material, and pass on your knowledge and experience to the newer cadets.
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SarDragon
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Posts: 10,085
Unit: NAVAIRPAC

« Reply #24 on: August 25, 2017, 07:40:42 PM »

This is perhaps drifting a bit, but it is still relevant.

Test questions are (supposed to be) written to meet the objectives. An objective is usually an action statement that asks for completion of a behavior, or recall of knowledge.

Here's one from The Journey of Flight, Ch 1Describe what makes air power unique. If you can explain, from memory, the requested info, you have achieved the objective.

Yes, it's broad, but doing the ? Test Your Knowledge ? questions gives you the opportunity to assess your retention. I'll bet they closely resemble the information in the test questions.

Take a look at chapters 3, 4, and 5 of AIR FORCE MANUAL 36-2236 to see the detailed process. Be forewarned, it's a snoozer, but it's good info to be familiar with.
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Dave Bowles
Maj, CAP
AT1, USN Retired
Mitchell Award (unnumbered)
C/WO, CAP, Ret
flyboy_x
Recruit

Posts: 13
Unit: CO-143

« Reply #25 on: September 25, 2017, 05:57:12 PM »

One problem is that during the training up to the Mitchell, most tests are open book. A quick Ctl-F <searchterm> will find the answer to the questions in the PDF.  NO prior reading required.

Perhaps making them all proctored would benefit the cadet more.

I've looked over a cadets shoulder when she was reviewing the questions after she failed the test for the sedond time.  Some of the questions are so "off the wall" and trivial that I don't know if I could answer enough Questions correctly to pass the test. 

Although this does help me as asst and former AEO prepare them for the test.
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TheSkyHornet
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 933

« Reply #26 on: September 26, 2017, 09:31:21 AM »

One problem is that during the training up to the Mitchell, most tests are open book. A quick Ctl-F <searchterm> will find the answer to the questions in the PDF.  NO prior reading required.
...
I've looked over a cadets shoulder when she was reviewing the questions after she failed the test for the sedond time.  Some of the questions are so "off the wall" and trivial that I don't know if I could answer enough Questions correctly to pass the test. 


Welcome to the era when answering the question correctly suffices over understanding the logic behind the question.

Can't say I'm not guilty of Ctrl-F a time or to on things I thought were a waste of my time. So I can't hold that over their heads. Our cadets don't see that the exact same way. There are some things that we just fail to see the importance of. Frankly, I don't think I'm necessarily wrong on those of those perspectives.

But I, too, have cadets who take the same test repeatedly and just can't pass. You can only do so much to help them work through it.
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Ethan Larsen
Recruit

Posts: 32

« Reply #27 on: September 29, 2017, 06:49:58 PM »

The test does not have 0 to do with the books, it has 0 to do with the quizlet I used at first. That's what I wrote.
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C/2d Lt  Ethan Larsen
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