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CAP Talk  |  Cadet Programs  |  Cadet Programs Management & Activities  |  Topic: Achievement 9 & 1stLt
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Louisa
Newbie

Posts: 1

« on: July 10, 2017, 12:36:14 PM »

So I finally earned Ach. 9 last week and SMs keep addressing me as 1st Lt and discussing when to pin me as C/1st Lt... I've tried to respectfully point out that 1st Lt is Achievement 10, but they haven't noticed and it's making me feel uncomfortable. Any suggestions? Am I wrong that Achievement 9 doesn't come with new grade? Maybe I'm misunderstanding 52-16 and the super chart and the promotion email...

Thanks!
C/2dLt
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Eclipse
Too Much Free Time Award
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Posts: 27,898

« Reply #1 on: July 10, 2017, 12:39:54 PM »

You are correct.  ACH 9 has no associated promotion.   You do not promote to C/1st Lt until ACH 10.

Politely show them the chart:  https://www.capmembers.com/media/cms/Super_Chart__2011_low__Copy_8371994AD16FE.pdf,
or refer them to your eServices record which will show you as having competed ACH 9 but still a Cadet Second Lieutenant.
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"Effort" does not equal "results".
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NIN
VIP

Posts: 4,613
Unit: of issue

« Reply #2 on: July 10, 2017, 12:46:59 PM »

But you're "just" c/2nd Lt, not c/2nd Lt "sustained".

Please don't propagate that felgercarb

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Darin Ninness, Lt Col, CAP
Sq Bubba, Wing Dude, National Guy
I like to have Difficult Adult Conversations™
The contents of this post are Copyright © 2017 by NIN. All rights are reserved. Specific permission is given to quote this post here on CAP-Talk only.
Eclipse
Too Much Free Time Award
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Posts: 27,898

« Reply #3 on: July 10, 2017, 12:56:28 PM »

Please don't propagate that felgercarb

+1
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"Effort" does not equal "results".
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wacapgh
Forum Regular

Posts: 177

« Reply #4 on: July 10, 2017, 03:02:06 PM »


"Sustained" means a cadet was denied a promotion:

CAPR 52-16, 5-2.e
 Sustaining a Cadet in Grade. Commanders may sustain a promotion-eligible cadet in grade if the cadet’s performance or maturity does not demonstrate an ability to accept increased responsibility commensurate with the promotion. Using the CAPF 50, Cadet Leadership Feedback, the commander (or deputy commander) will offer constructive feed-back to help the cadet develop his/her leadership skills. The commander must also schedule a follow-up review to be held within 60 days.
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NIN
VIP

Posts: 4,613
Unit: of issue

« Reply #5 on: July 10, 2017, 04:44:36 PM »

I know what it means in that context.  Its when you see cadets completing the second achievement of,  say,  c/1st Lt, and they refer to themselves as "c/1st Lt (sustained)". You're still just a c/1st Lt. Its not Rear Admiral (upper half) or something

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Darin Ninness, Lt Col, CAP
Sq Bubba, Wing Dude, National Guy
I like to have Difficult Adult Conversations™
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Eclipse
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« Reply #6 on: July 10, 2017, 05:00:58 PM »

You can be sure there have been uncountable conversations regarding "ranking Lt" in that context as well.
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"Effort" does not equal "results".
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Eclipse
Too Much Free Time Award
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Posts: 27,898

« Reply #7 on: July 10, 2017, 05:10:13 PM »


"Sustained" means a cadet was denied a promotion:

CAPR 52-16, 5-2.e
 Sustaining a Cadet in Grade. Commanders may sustain a promotion-eligible cadet in grade if the cadet’s performance or maturity does not demonstrate an ability to accept increased responsibility commensurate with the promotion. Using the CAPF 50, Cadet Leadership Feedback, the commander (or deputy commander) will offer constructive feed-back to help the cadet develop his/her leadership skills. The commander must also schedule a follow-up review to be held within 60 days.

Isn't "retain" the correct term here, vs. "sustain".

In most cases "sustain" con-notates "affirmation or re-affirmation", vs. "Retain" which generally means holding or held back".

For example, after the 1-year probationary period aren't most Lt Colonels "sustained" as such, unless it's not approved in which
case they retain their previous grade of Major?
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"Effort" does not equal "results".
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Mitchell 1969
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 668
Unit: PCR-CA-051

« Reply #8 on: July 11, 2017, 04:30:15 AM »


"Sustained" means a cadet was denied a promotion:

CAPR 52-16, 5-2.e
 Sustaining a Cadet in Grade. Commanders may sustain a promotion-eligible cadet in grade if the cadet’s performance or maturity does not demonstrate an ability to accept increased responsibility commensurate with the promotion. Using the CAPF 50, Cadet Leadership Feedback, the commander (or deputy commander) will offer constructive feed-back to help the cadet develop his/her leadership skills. The commander must also schedule a follow-up review to be held within 60 days.

Isn't "retain" the correct term here, vs. "sustain".

In most cases "sustain" con-notates "affirmation or re-affirmation", vs. "Retain" which generally means holding or held back".


Beat me to it.

It's almost as if somebody sat there and scratched his head, thinking "There's GOTTA be a more confusing way to say this."
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Bernard J. Wilson, Major, CAP

Mitchell 1969; Earhart 1971; Eaker 1973. Cadet Flying Encampment, License, 1970. IACE New Zealand 1971; IACE Korea 1973.

CAP has been bery, bery good to me.
wacapgh
Forum Regular

Posts: 177

« Reply #9 on: July 11, 2017, 05:38:53 PM »

CAP regulations define "Sustained" as a cadet who has been denied a promotion.

Regulations also define promotions to Lt Col and above initially as "temporary". The promotion is then either made permanent or the member reverts back to their permanent grade. We don't address members as "Lt Col (temporary)", "Major General (temporary)", "Colonel (permanent)", or "Major (reverted)" so its effectively an administrative distinction.

So it's fairly straightforward:

"sustained" = Cadet who has been denied a promotion.
"temporary" = a Lt Col or above who has not been made permanent.
"reverted" = a Major who was not confirmed in a grade of Lt Col or above.
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Mordecai
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 1,052
Unit: SI

« Reply #10 on: July 11, 2017, 09:09:50 PM »

Sounds like with just a minor adjustment to the program we can finally fit in those temporary third lieutenants!
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CAP Talk  |  Cadet Programs  |  Cadet Programs Management & Activities  |  Topic: Achievement 9 & 1stLt
 


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