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jfkspotting
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Unit: NER-NY-328

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« on: May 07, 2017, 08:24:36 PM »

Good evening. My First encampment this summer will be at NY Wing as a Staff Sergeant.

What should I expect, as I can actually say I've never been to an encampment as an airman? I joined in November and did not go to the 2016 encampment.
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Arc light
Recruit

Posts: 37
Unit: GLR-KY-050

« Reply #1 on: May 08, 2017, 11:51:37 PM »

I just finished my spring encampment last week as a staff sergeant as well and you should expect the same thing as anyone else,at my encampment there were cadet CMS as well as airmen. Everyone gets treated the same with no extra responsibilities on higher ranking cadets. The only extra thing would be that you are going in to it with more expirence but personally it doesn't matter, just have fun.
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Майор Хаткевич
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« Reply #2 on: May 09, 2017, 10:32:48 AM »

I just finished my spring encampment last week as a staff sergeant as well and you should expect the same thing as anyone else,at my encampment there were cadet CMS as well as airmen. Everyone gets treated the same with no extra responsibilities on higher ranking cadets. The only extra thing would be that you are going in to it with more expirence but personally it doesn't matter, just have fun.


C/CMSgt*. You can find all the proper abbreviations here: https://www.capmembers.com/media/cms/Respect_on_Display_2009__Reduced_2A46F4ACF35F8.pdf (Page 16)
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Jester
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« Reply #3 on: May 09, 2017, 01:16:33 PM »

I would say that you're walking a fine line. 

On one hand, you're a student, and should act as such. Therefore, your role is to simply do the exact same thing as everyone else in the flight.  Don't undercut your flight commander and flight sergeant.  Being a good follower is paramount to being a good leader.

On the other hand, you're a cadet NCO, and as such have more experience than most of the others in your flight.  You also have the added role of informal leadership.  "Leadership" isn't just a spot on the org chart.  I would expect you to take charge during non-training tasks such as getting barracks squared away.  Is a cadet in your element new to CAP and having trouble getting his boots shined?  Looks like you need to be helping him during downtime each evening. 

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CadetCrayonEater
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« Reply #4 on: May 09, 2017, 03:33:13 PM »

I would say that you're walking a fine line. 

On one hand, you're a student, and should act as such. Therefore, your role is to simply do the exact same thing as everyone else in the flight.  Don't undercut your flight commander and flight sergeant.  Being a good follower is paramount to being a good leader.

On the other hand, you're a cadet NCO, and as such have more experience than most of the others in your flight.  You also have the added role of informal leadership.  "Leadership" isn't just a spot on the org chart.  I would expect you to take charge during non-training tasks such as getting barracks squared away.  Is a cadet in your element new to CAP and having trouble getting his boots shined?  Looks like you need to be helping him during downtime each evening.

This is probably the best answer you will get
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C/SrA Mudd
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Shieldel
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« Reply #5 on: May 16, 2017, 06:54:53 PM »

Not sure if this is a necro since it's only a week old but wanted throw my $.02

I knew of a chief that went as a student. He asserted rank over his flight staff....that...I wish I could have been there to see. With popcorn of course.

I agree with Cadet Mudd and Jester.

Set the example, act your rank, help your flight when you can, but do know your place. You are there as a student. Granted you're going as a C/SSgt so your staff will probably outrank you anyways but still a good thing to keep in mind. You are an NCO. Airmen will look up to you. Act the NCO part but do know your limits as a student.
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Flight Officer Michael D. Scheidle
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GaryVC
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« Reply #6 on: May 17, 2017, 11:59:08 AM »

I am planning to go to my first encampment in 50 years this summer so I will see how it works. As a senior member I would hope that the higher ranking cadets attending their first encampment would be picked to fill posts that aren't part of the cadet cadre such as element leader, guide and guidon bearer IF they are capable of performing in those rolls.
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Eclipse
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« Reply #7 on: May 17, 2017, 12:10:27 PM »

I am planning to go to my first encampment in 50 years this summer so I will see how it works. As a senior member I would hope that the higher ranking cadets attending their first encampment would be picked to fill posts that aren't part of the cadet cadre such as element leader, guide and guidon bearer IF they are capable of performing in those rolls.

Every encampment is different in this respect, but generally these decisions are made based on game-day performance and not grade.

Owing to the inconsistent nature of local training, there are far too many Cadet Chiefs who do not perform at grade level
and are outshined by high-speed airmen, and without putting too fine point on it, a Cadet Chief in student ranks at their first
encampment is at least one indication of not being the most motivated cadet (not always, but's one thing to look at).
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GaryVC
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« Reply #8 on: May 17, 2017, 01:31:14 PM »

In the old, old days in California Wing no one went to encampment with any grade. Those selected for the cadet cadre were assigned grade based on their position. I am not sure why this process was stopped (hurt feelings?) but it solved some problems.
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SarDragon
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« Reply #9 on: May 17, 2017, 01:44:44 PM »

It was stopped because it was in violation of the regulations, no matter how well-intentioned or practical it was.
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Dave Bowles
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GaryVC
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« Reply #10 on: May 17, 2017, 01:57:33 PM »

It was stopped because it was in violation of the regulations, no matter how well-intentioned or practical it was.

I wonder if that was true 50 years ago?
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Майор Хаткевич
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« Reply #11 on: May 17, 2017, 02:00:38 PM »

It was stopped because it was in violation of the regulations, no matter how well-intentioned or practical it was.

I wonder if that was true 50 years ago?


50 years back is quite a stretch.
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SarDragon
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« Reply #12 on: May 17, 2017, 02:37:47 PM »

It was stopped because it was in violation of the regulations, no matter how well-intentioned or practical it was.

I wonder if that was true 50 years ago?

True as in being prohibited? Possible, but I don't have anything going back that far. I know that CAPR 52-16 was very specific about it in 2003 - No discretionary grades.
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Dave Bowles
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SarDragon
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« Reply #13 on: May 17, 2017, 02:39:00 PM »

It was stopped because it was in violation of the regulations, no matter how well-intentioned or practical it was.

I wonder if that was true 50 years ago?


50 years back is quite a stretch.

For some, yes. Not me, I was there.
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Dave Bowles
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GaryVC
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« Reply #14 on: May 17, 2017, 02:39:41 PM »

The question of course is why? Did it discourage cadets from going to encampment? That's the only valid reason I can think of.
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Eclipse
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« Reply #15 on: May 17, 2017, 02:52:23 PM »

What possible use would serve?

Authority at enacmpments is positional just like the rest of CAP.
Making a cadet a brevet Major doesn't make him a Major, and he would not have completed the requisite training to theoretically know how to be one.

There's also the non trivial issue of grade being seen sewn on.
« Last Edit: May 17, 2017, 03:06:32 PM by SarDragon » Logged

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wacapgh
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« Reply #16 on: May 17, 2017, 03:49:07 PM »

What possible use would serve?

Authority at enacmpments is positional just like the rest of CAP.
Making a cadet a brevet Major doesn't make him a Major, and he would not have completed the requisite training to theoretically know how to be one.

There's also the non trivial issue of grade being seen sewn on.

I think the entire text in the regs was "A temporary grade structure is authorized for Encampments"

Sewing the the old cloth insignia was one of the excuses for the abuse. If you were on "Staff", you would easily have a set of Class A's, two sets of "1550's", and two sets of fatigues. That's 10 stripes to change out. Buying the hardboards if you were filling an officer position (they were required on all blue uniforms, unless you were a C/WO) required new shirts to attach the snaps and the sleeves on your old ones had dark spots where they were covered by your stripes.

"We need a couple of weeks before and after to do all the sewing" - So there's a month of wearing "temporary grade".
"Staff should wear their grade as soon as they are selected because (any number of reasons)" - There's a couple more months.

By the time it was stopped, you could get away with "temporary grade" for five or six months depending on your Wing policy.
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Eclipse
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« Reply #17 on: May 17, 2017, 04:26:31 PM »

By the time it was stopped, you could get away with "temporary grade" for five or six months depending on your Wing policy.

Not to mention I'm sure there were more then a few who came home thinking there were simply "the new grade" and
argued with the CC about it.

The way it is done now is fine, and honestly it's never even been a subject of conversation in the 14 encampments / 17 years I've been in.

Students in flight have no recognition of their grade, since none is necessary.  Those in the cadre are addressed by whatever their grade is unless there
have some other title that would be appropriate.

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GaryVC
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« Reply #18 on: May 17, 2017, 04:41:21 PM »

By the time it was stopped, you could get away with "temporary grade" for five or six months depending on your Wing policy.

I never saw this happen and my temporary encampment grade was lower than my actual grade. Sewing wasn't a problem, well it was but it was all about the California wing patch, not grade. In those days cadet enlisted ranks was sewn on while cadet officer grade was pinned on. I don't think we bothered with the shoulder boards at encampment (or anywhere else we could get away with it).
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Eclipse
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« Reply #19 on: May 17, 2017, 04:51:15 PM »

^ So that example, to me, is even worse, and probably more the norm.

You reward a cadet for stepping up and volunteering for staff of an encampment by demoting him?

I'd have to look hard to find that being a good idea.
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CAP Talk  |  Cadet Programs  |  Encampments & NCSAs  |  Topic: first Encampment as a Sergeant?
 


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