SKYWARN

[Theodore]

Hi guys,
Not sure if any of you have heard of SKYWARN, but its a storm spotter (not chaser) program operated and sponsored by the National Weather Service. I think it is a good class for GTM training, and also covers safety and ORM. Look into it. You wont regret it. Its free too.

[Eclipse]

It's good general information, but not really relevent to CAP operations.

[Theodore]

It kind of ties into Disaster Relief

[Eclipse]

It kind of ties into Disaster Relief

Actually, it is intended for disaster prevention and notification, in that advanced warning of an incoming storm
can facilitate moving people and securing property.

Disaster "relief" only occurs after an incident has occurred, and generally after the major weather or other
force have ceased to be dangerous.

[Holding Pattern]

CAP is active with some SKYWARN watchers in some areas, and less in others.

http://www.capmembers.com/media/cms/NWS_Skywarn_Training_1D50206728EA8.doc

https://www.ncwgcap.org/index.cfm?fuseaction=page.display&pageID=440

[LTC Don]

CAP has a national MOU with NOAA, but SkyWarn isn't present.  It really should be re-written to include SkyWarn since we have a lot to offer to that program.

http://www.capmembers.com/media/cms/NOAA__Umbrella__Annual_Agreement__4_B2236C74CAFC9.pdf

Section C 'could' be massaged as is to include SkyWarn activations, but it's a stretch and should be expanded to explicitly include SkyWarn participation to the local weather offices.  If the amateur radio community can spin up as easily as they do for SkyWarn, while CAP members sit home and all that taxpayer provided comm equipment sits idle.........that's a problem.

[AALTIS]

It's good general information, but not really relevent to CAP operations.

I fail to see how it's not really relevant.  Any CAP event must place importance on safety, correct?  Any I can't think of too many things other than walking into a prop that has more relevance on safety, than weather.  So sending members to the skywarn training sessions and becoming involved with or at least setting up contacts with the local skywarn system seems like a not brainer.  Any CAP event should have weather reports and information available to make risk assessments.  It is also a great place to recruit new communications folks.   

On a similar note, did you know that you can contact your local National Weather Service office, and they will provide weather forecasts for your CAP event?    If it is a multi day event (encampment), they will call you each morning with a forecast and hazardous weather outlook for your specific area.  Any if there becomes any weather threat to that area, they will call and notify you.

[THRAWN]

It's good general information, but not really relevent to CAP operations.

I fail to see how it's not really relevant.  Any CAP event must place importance on safety, correct?  Any I can't think of too many things other than walking into a prop that has more relevance on safety, than weather.  So sending members to the skywarn training sessions and becoming involved with or at least setting up contacts with the local skywarn system seems like a not brainer.  Any CAP event should have weather reports and information available to make risk assessments.  It is also a great place to recruit new communications folks.   

On a similar note, did you know that you can contact your local National Weather Service office, and they will provide weather forecasts for your CAP event?    If it is a multi day event (encampment), they will call you each morning with a forecast and hazardous weather outlook for your specific area.  Any if there becomes any weather threat to that area, they will call and notify you.

Concur. I had a commander that wouldn't leave the briefing room until he had a thorough weather intel report. CAP can use SKYWARN guys to obtain that info.

[Eclipse]

It's good general information, but not really relevent to CAP operations.

I fail to see how it's not really relevant. 

You're confusing the information they may help to provide with CAP operations.  SKYWARN is not a forecast agency, they are advanced spotters.  You would not call
them for a current forecast, nor could they provide it.  The ORM of being involved in actual spotting can be off the charts, something CAP is never going to
get involved with, and frankly shouldn't, any more then it should be involved with CERT.  These organizations are intended, by design, to allow the general public to
participate in crowd-sourcing information, or assisting themselves or their neighbors in times of need, not to be augmented by structured forces with
real training and resources who should be elsewhere during weather incidents.

There is plenty of need elsewhere, but these kinds of situations look like low hanging fruit, so rather then do the legwork in getting to the table with the
EMAs and other gov'mint agencies, people look to things like SYWARN as an "easy way to get in the game".

I'm from a state that's got plenty of tornadoes, and lately Lex Luthor has apparently decided to test his weather machine in this area, as such, I have some experience
with this and similar organizations both in a CAP capacity and from my own volunteerism exploration.  This is not
a fit for CAP involvement.  Which is not to say they if individual members would like to participate, they shouldn't. 

On a similar note, did you know that you can contact your local National Weather Service office, and they will provide weather forecasts for your CAP event?   

Yes.  I don 't see how that is relevent to a discussion of CAP's involvement with SKYWARN.
I can also get a current forecast on my watch, and call for avweather to get the most up to date conditions.

[Eclipse]

CAP can use SKYWARN guys to obtain that info.

No, they actually can't.  SKYWARN does not provide weather forecasts.

http://www.nws.noaa.gov/skywarn/

[Spaceman3750]

I could see it as an added safety precaution for GT, to be better able to keep an eye on that approaching thunderstorm or the one you're waiting to pass; but storm spotting isn't something we can field people fast enough to do, even if it was something we were willing to do.

Also, I can tell you as someone who went to the 2-hour "training" (sit and watch slides) for my other volunteer gig, one 2-hour slideshow is not enough to actually be able to do that well. Without some serious extra reading and research I have no clue what I'm doing.

[ccallahan]

What NHQ really should do IMO is create a weather track. Train people in near and real time forecasting e.g. radar, surface obs, near-term models like the RAP and HRRR.

Also, if your squadron needs weather data, I would seriously recommend SimuAWIPS. It's $9/month or $7/month if someone in your squadron has a .mil or .edu address. You can get hi-res (Level 2) radar, near real-time lightning, current weather conditions, models, and even text products from your local weather office.

[Eclipse]

What NHQ really should do IMO is create a weather track. Train people in near and real time forecasting e.g. radar, surface obs, near-term models like the RAP and HRRR.

For what?  I could see that as a career-exploration NCSA, but CAP has no need or use for it's own inaccurate forecasts when it can
get Federally funded inaccurate information from NOAA.

[Holding Pattern]

What NHQ really should do IMO is create a weather track. Train people in near and real time forecasting e.g. radar, surface obs, near-term models like the RAP and HRRR.

For what?  I could see that as a career-exploration NCSA, but CAP has no need or use for it's own inaccurate forecasts when it can
get Federally funded inaccurate information from NOAA.

Better weather ORM for your IAP?

[Eclipse]

Better weather ORM for your IAP?

If NOAA and legal AVWeather aren't enough, your ORM is already too high to do anything.

[Holding Pattern]

Better weather ORM for your IAP?

If NOAA and legal AVWeather aren't enough, your ORM is already too high to do anything.

I'm thinking more of things like this previously discussed:

We used to participate in a Guard and Reserve SOF exercise a couple of times a year in NJ. The task force commander was nuts about weather intel, and it kind of rubbed off. It's invaluable to have good weather info during routine ops, but even more importantly, you need it during times when you may be called out to play. You can't fly when it's lousy, and if you don't have good weather info, you're gonna be caught short. True story, in the late 90's we were doing some GSAR training on Fort Dix. When we reported in Friday night, it was nice, a bit chilly, but nothing out of the ordinary for a spring evening. When we woke up on Saturday morning to 6 inches of snow on the ground, we had to rapidly make adjustments to our plans. If we had a good weather brief, it probably would have ended much better.

Good luck with the pitch. I've spent some time in your AO, and know what good weather awareness means to keeping folks alive...

[SarDragon]

What NHQ really should do IMO is create a weather track. Train people in near and real time forecasting e.g. radar, surface obs, near-term models like the RAP and HRRR.

Also, if your squadron needs weather data, I would seriously recommend SimuAWIPS. It's $9/month or $7/month if someone in your squadron has a .mil or .edu address. You can get hi-res (Level 2) radar, near real-time lightning, current weather conditions, models, and even text products from your local weather office.

Do you really understand the complexity of meteorology? It is one of the most math intensive degree programs out there, outside of a traditional science or engineering degree. I doubt that CAP could provide a program useful enough to meet our needs.

[Holding Pattern]

What NHQ really should do IMO is create a weather track. Train people in near and real time forecasting e.g. radar, surface obs, near-term models like the RAP and HRRR.

Also, if your squadron needs weather data, I would seriously recommend SimuAWIPS. It's $9/month or $7/month if someone in your squadron has a .mil or .edu address. You can get hi-res (Level 2) radar, near real-time lightning, current weather conditions, models, and even text products from your local weather office.

Do you really understand the complexity of meteorology? It is one of the most math intensive degree programs out there, outside of a traditional science or engineering degree. I doubt that CAP could provide a program useful enough to meet our needs.

Funny you mention that...

http://www.557weatherwing.af.mil/questions/topic.asp?id=2313

[SarDragon]

Very interesting. Something I just thought of was the difference between climatology and meteorology, when I saw the link for Climatological Data on that site. Two different, but closely related fields.

[LSThiker]

Funny you mention that...

http://www.557weatherwing.af.mil/questions/topic.asp?id=2313

Unfortunately, that course ended about 10 years ago.  It was supposed to be a good NCSA but I think Offutt AFB simply ran out of housing, IRC.  Too bad, it has not resumed.



As a person that has participated in the basic, advanced, and radar courses of the SkyWarn program, the information is great.  It would serve as an excellent AE activity.  At least the courses I attended have gone into great detail explaining how to identify updrafts, downdrafts, wall clouds, shelf clouds, etc and how they are related.  Plus, the training is free and can be easily coordinated with the NWS in your area.  I would suggest at least getting the "training". 

Now, on the topic of actively spotting, no I do not think CAP should be actively involved.  Spotting can be risky even for trained professionals.  However, I would like to point out that Storm Spotting and Storm Chasing are different.  With the storm spotting, the NWS does emphasize safety and only reporting weather events if it is safe to do so.  They do not encourage storm chasing per se.  Nevertheless, even if you do not actively spot the storm, storm spotting at home is still vital information to the NWS, which could be expanded with CAP (as long as members do not get stupid and start chasing the storm).  That is, you are sitting at home and it starts to hail.  Providing a report of hail from your house can and does help the NWS.