Signing up new members at intervals

[Snake Doctor]

Hey all,

I'm looking for a few contacts, in squadrons, that sign up new members at set intervals during a year.  Say quarterly.
I'm interested to know how it is working for cadets and officers. My idea is to do that and have quarterly orientaions cousres for cadets and officers.

Thanks.

Paul

[Pylon]

Hey all,

I'm looking for a few contacts, in squadrons, that sign up new members at set intervals during a year.  Say quarterly.
I'm interested to know how it is working for cadets and officers. My idea is to do that and have quarterly orientaions cousres for cadets and officers.

Thanks.

Paul

Welcome Paul!  I know Lt Col Darin Ninness, who occassionally stops in these parts, has a very successful program operating like this and he has expounded upon it several times in the past.  He would be an ideal person to contact regarding this type of recruiting and induction.

[Snake Doctor]

Thank you! I will get in touch with him unless he posts here first.

Paul

[isuhawkeye]

take a look at some of the Iowa threads on this topic.  with our Officer Training program seniors are recruited and trained 2 times a year

[NIN]

Will post my diatribe here in a bit In the middle of a big meeting at the moment.

However, if you search thru my posts in the last 90 days or so, you'll find a big discussion on the subject in the Great Start thread here: http://captalk.net/index.php?topic=1708.0



Back later.

[afgeo4]

So basically you guys offer members 3 to 6 months to opt not to join? 3 to 6 months of looking at training, but not participating in it? Interesting. On some level it weeds out those who aren't serious, but on the other level... it keeps people who are itching to do something like say volunteering from actually volunteering.

[Stonewall]

This absolutely works.

People will argue all day and all night about bringing people in at a set date, but it has proven its worth 10x over with retention in the long run.

For years, as a deputy commander for cadets and later, a squadron commander, we started recruiting campaigns that advertised two things.  1) an open house and 2) a "new basic cadet training class", as if it were so few and far between, you better get your butt in before its too late.

Most squadrons and their leadership are hard up for members and think this concept will only turn people away, but it is a tried and true method.  We'd do major advertising.  Earlier I said "recruiting" but I lied, we never recruited, we advertised; got the word out about CAP.  I'd mail 10 CAP pamphlets with squadron info, open house date and a POC to every library within our area for their public service announcement desk.  I'd send cadets with 8.5 x 11" "posters" advertising our open house.  You name it, I'd get the word out in some way shape or form.

Come open house time, we went all out.  We'd have a very professional gear set up, like the PJs and Special Forces guys do at the airshows.  We'd do an ELT demo where the cadet GTMs would set up an ELT in a car and track it down.  We'd do the standard 12 minute video and of course, I would speak.  I've been called somewhat of a car salesman as far as CAP goes.  The cadet commander would speak so the young'uns visiting would see that the program is "for cadets by cadets".  We'd have model rockets on display.  Do a color guard presentation and really just sell the program.  We made them believe it is in fact an honor and privilege to be a member of CAP.

At the end, we'd say, okay folks, thanks for coming.  If you are interested in joining CAP our next Training Flight will start in 4 weeks.  You will be given all the information you need to sign up and become a member, but we won't accept your money and application until you have attended 3 meetings.  CAP isn't for everybody and we don't want you to waste your money.  Oh, and when you show up, your uniform is blue jeans with a plain black tshirt tucked in with a belt.  Any questions?

We'd have anywhere between 5 and 12 new cadets show up, and chances are, their initial impression with the program keeps them in the program a lot longer than those who trickled in and weren't put through an 8 week program that was separate from the rest of the squadron.  TRUST ME, IT WORKS!!! 

Some say that may be way too much work to get 5 new recruits out of it.  But if you do that 3 times a  year, that's at least 15 new cadets a year.  In the end, it brings both quantity and quality.

[NIN]

So basically you guys offer members 3 to 6 months to opt not to join? 3 to 6 months of looking at training, but not participating in it? Interesting. On some level it weeds out those who aren't serious, but on the other level... it keeps people who are itching to do something like say volunteering from actually volunteering.

While it may seem that way, it really doesn't work that way.

First, we PUSH as hard as possible to "catch" as many of the people who would be intrested in joining as possible.  As UK said, its "advertising," per se, not "recruiting" (although in our context, recruiting IS advertising..). 

Second, we open our "new member period" up a week before the open house (so anybody who has been waiting in the wings can get their stuff going), and then we have a unit open house.  Three weeks after the open house, we close the new member period and you cannot join until the next one.  Senior training starts at that point (Level I) as does CBT.

Third, its been my experience that anybody who is motivated enough to want to volunteer WILL wait.  They WILL.  You establish this as "the standard" and they say "Oh, OK, understood. Need to wait until the week before 11 October to start the process.." and off they go.  We have contact information for them, they have our flyer, and we make sure that we contact them as we advertise for the next one about 4 weeks before that open house and new member period.

Let me reiterate one of the key concepts here: If someone is so motivated to join CAP, they WILL wait.  I have seen it many times.  Some of my best officers and cadets are those who have waited (for either our open house rules  reason, or because, say, they were 11 years old when they first investigated us and discovered they couldn't join until they were 12..). 

My standard explaination here is this: If a person is not motivated enough about CAP to wait 4-5 months for the next recruiting period, then exactly how motivated were they going to be to participate in general?

What happens when the "going gets tough" and you tell them "OK, you have be an SM for 6 months before promotion to 2nd Lt?" or "Sorry, 2nd Lt, but its 12 full months TIG to 1st Lt.."?  Are they going to quit?  Probably not, becuase that's seen as "the way the process goes."  Same thing with us:  Waiting to join is "the way the process goes."  They don't know any better, so they don't see it as a burden. Its just the way the process is.

It acts as a filter.  The "tire-kickers" fall out of the process quickly and do not come back. The potential higher quality, longer term members are the ones who DO come back.

[NIN]

BTW,  I think I mentioned this before:

We've been doing the "pipeline" effort since early in 2001, and have done the "pipelining with a drop-dead inprocessing night" at the end of the new member period since about 2003.  EVERY open house since January 2001 has netted for the squadron between 12 and 16 cadets and 1-2 officers.

This last one (March) netted us 15 cadets and 4 officers.

A sidebar benefit: All of our cadets and most of our seniors have "membership expiration dates" in either November or April.  Makes retention interviews a snap.

[Tubacap]

What do you do at a retention interview?

[Stonewall]

I think Darin's retention interview/process was more complex than ours, but we'd simply bring the cadet in, similar to a review board, and basically do a personal chat with them.  Ask them how things are going in CAP, school, sports, etc.  We'd mention that their membership expires in one month and ask if they intend to renew.  We also drop a hint that we don't have to let them renew (like that would happen) but like the initial "hiring process" we project a perception that it is a privilege to be in CAP, not a right. 

At the end, we shake hands, thank them for their service and they walk away knowing that we're paying attention and do concern ourselves with their welfare as it relates to CAP.

[capchiro]

It must be nice to have large enough squadrons to have separate programs to train the newbies by themselves for 8 weeks while the rest of the squadron is doing the weekly activities on schedule.  I also question statements such as "we close the new member period and you cannot join until the next one".  I truly think that if someone wants to join CAP at any time and National finds out they are being denied the opportunity to submit their paperwork and dues there may be a new squadron commander in that unit shortly.  I don't think any squadron commander has the authority to refuse to allow someone to join CAP except during a prescribed period.  This is part of the problem with CAP. everyone has their own ideas.  I am not saying that this doesn't work for some squadrons, I am just saying "it ain't right".  National will accept applications at anytime and expects their commanders to do likewise.  The squadrons are entrusted to us to administer according to CAP Regs, not our own personal whims.  As usual, JMHO, but based on sound judgment, years of law school, and years of CAP experience.

[Stonewall]

Like I said, a lot of people disagree with this method.  I have been challenged several times as to whether or not it is right, and all I can say is that it works. 

This process is exactly the way I was brought into CAP 20 years ago as a cadet and I think it speaks volumes for its own success.  Look, here I am, 20 years later.  Talk about retention.

In 1996 when I was appointed DCC at my squadron and instituted this program, we did not have the numbers.  In fact, we had about 5 active cadets and about 30 pilot types on the senior side.  Myself along with the 5 active cadets put this program into action.  So wen you say...

It must be nice to have large enough squadrons to have separate programs to train the newbies by themselves for 8 weeks while the rest of the squadron is doing the weekly activities on schedule.

I say its no excuse not to do it.

[Pylon]

It must be nice to have large enough squadrons to have separate programs to train the newbies by themselves for 8 weeks while the rest of the squadron is doing the weekly activities on schedule.  I also question statements such as "we close the new member period and you cannot join until the next one".  I truly think that if someone wants to join CAP at any time and National finds out they are being denied the opportunity to submit their paperwork and dues there may be a new squadron commander in that unit shortly.  I don't think any squadron commander has the authority to refuse to allow someone to join CAP except during a prescribed period.  This is part of the problem with CAP. everyone has their own ideas.  I am not saying that this doesn't work for some squadrons, I am just saying "it ain't right".  National will accept applications at anytime and expects their commanders to do likewise.  The squadrons are entrusted to us to administer according to CAP Regs, not our own personal whims.  As usual, JMHO, but based on sound judgment, years of law school, and years of CAP experience.

Actually, that's what commander's discretion is for.  You can pretty much decline anybody's attempt to join CAP by simply not approving their application at that time.  About the only thing you can't do is decline people for membership for discriminatory reasons (i/e: based on gender, race, religion, etc...).  Any other reason is fair game.

To add to that, if a person isn't willing to wait until our next established induction period and wants in now regardless of your advice, I'd say that's a good reason to not want them in your organization anyways.

I think National would be patting that squadron commander on the back for consistently bringing in that many new recruits, who also tend to renew and stay in the program, rather than giving them a hassle over which months they allow them to turn in their paperwork.

[capchiro]

I am not saying that I don't find the idea attractive, but how do you maintain your integrity when you say something like "that's the way it is", and then the member finds out the squadron down the road 10 miles allows people to join at anytime?  I think in todays immediate gratification atmosphere, a squadron could potentially lose some perspective new members that may wander off in the 3-6 months delay.  Is it right to delay a cadet 3-6 months in the cadet program?  Cadets are excitable and want to join now, not later.  By allowing a cadet to join now, perhaps we will keep them from getting in trouble, or making a bad decision, or just wandering off.  I think we are here in part for the cadets and even if they are in for only a year, it may make a difference in their lives and they may join the military because of their association with us.  I just feel that this program is too good to deny to cadets or anyone for that matter at anytime.

[Stonewall]

I think in todays immediate gratification atmosphere, a squadron could potentially lose some perspective new members that may wander off in the 3-6 months delay.  Is it right to delay a cadet 3-6 months in the cadet program?  Cadets are excitable and want to join now, not later.   By allowing a cadet to join now, perhaps we will keep them from getting in trouble, or making a bad decision, or just wandering off.

I disagree wholeheartidly.  Immediate gratification?  Well, we could either give them exactly what they want and teach them nothing, or perhaps we can have them wait 2 months and teach them something as simple as patience.  Like Darin said in his post, if they can't wait for something they say they really want, do we really want them?  Its a two-way street. 

I was an "excitable cadet", I want to join now, not later.  But look what happened, I had to wait and I didn't turn to drugs, crime or torchering small animals. 

I think we are here in part for the cadets and even if they are in for only a year, it may make a difference in their lives and they may join the military because of their association with us.  I just feel that this program is too good to deny to cadets or anyone for that matter at anytime.

"In part for the cadets"?  No, I'm totally here for the cadets.  2 or 3 months will not make or break anyone.  Kids wait all year for summer camps to come around, good summer camps that teach kids right from wrong.  We don't just blow off the school year to give them summer camp now because they may turn to a life of crime, so why bow down and do that with CAP?  Seriously, it isn't a lifetime, its 2 to 3 months.  Not to mention, if you really felt the need, you could always maintain contact with the perspective member to make sure they don't lose interest, but if they do lose interest, I think we just saved them $36, or whatever it costs to join these days.

And if they go down the street to squadron that doesn't have a program like the one above, then there is a greater chance of losing them a year down the road anyway.

[NIN]

What do you do at a retention interview?

Between 60 & 90 days out, we (the chain of command) identify those members who are up for renewal and take a few minutes to ensure that we sit down with them for a brief review.  Where they're at (grade wise), how they're doing, and make sure to talk to them about their upcoming renewal.

It works. Shows them the chain of command is paying attention and gives a crap.

[NIN]

It must be nice to have large enough squadrons to have separate programs to train the newbies by themselves for 8 weeks while the rest of the squadron is doing the weekly activities on schedule.

When we started doing  this, we had about 15-17 active cadets and about 5 active seniors (32 and 15, respectively, on the books).  When I handed command of the squadron over in 2004, we had over 35 seniors, of which 25+ were active, and 65 or 70 cadets, of which 55 or 60 were active.

If you take advantage of dedicating a cadet or two to train newbies, particularly your *better* cadets, you get better results (retention, cadet quality, better progression, etc) in the long run.

I also question statements such as "we close the new member period and you cannot join until the next one".  I truly think that if someone wants to join CAP at any time and National finds out they are being denied the opportunity to submit their paperwork and dues there may be a new squadron commander in that unit shortly.  I don't think any squadron commander has the authority to refuse to allow someone to join CAP except during a prescribed period.  This is part of the problem with CAP. everyone has their own ideas.

Sir, I ask you to show me in CAPR 39-2 where it says I can't do that.

It doesn't.

Its not discriminatory, its administrative.  I CAN decide who joins my unit and when.   If I believe that its better for our CAP squadron to "induct" new members 2x per year for a limited period of time, as a squadron commander I have the latitude to do so.  As a matter of fact, the proposed (not codified yet, merely proposed) Great Start program for cadets recommends this "pipelining" type of process over the "onsie-twosie" recruiting method....

I am not saying that this doesn't work for some squadrons, I am just saying "it ain't right".  National will accept applications at anytime and expects their commanders to do likewise.  The squadrons are entrusted to us to administer according to CAP Regs, not our own personal whims.  As usual, JMHO, but based on sound judgment, years of law school, and years of CAP experience.

Emphasis mine.

Please show me where this is codified in the Civil Air Patrol regulations, Colonel. 

It is not.

Notwithstanding your law school experience (no offense, but I have years of business school experience.. Whats your point?), I too have years of Civil Air Patrol experience. I  am presently in my  eighth year as a squadron commander, having commanded four squadrons in two wings.  This is the MOST successfull we've every been from a recruiting and retention standpoint.  I've never seen a squadron in the many squadrons I've been involved with have as successful a program.

Our retention hovers about 10% better than the national average, and often about 15% better.

There is no reason not to do this kind of thing.

[CadetProgramGuy]

What do you do at a retention interview?

Between 60 & 90 days out, we (the chain of command) identify those members who are up for renewal and take a few minutes to ensure that we sit down with them for a brief review.  Where they're at (grade wise), how they're doing, and make sure to talk to them about their upcoming renewal.

It works. Shows them the chain of command is paying attention and gives a crap.

Darn good Idea!!!  I am going to start paying attention to this as well!!

[acarlson]

... As a matter of fact, the proposed (not codified yet, merely proposed) Great Start program for cadets recommends this "pipelining" type of process over the "onsie-twosie" recruiting method....

...Our retention hovers about 10% better than the national average, and often about 15% better...

...There is no reason not to do this kind of thing.

I just shared the idea with my squadron commander...  she likes it! 

I love stats that speak for themselves!   Thanks for sharing your experience...  I believe we're going to put it in place!     ... it sure beats the "off the cuff" welcome orientation we're doing now! 

Make it so, #1 !