Better get used to the BDU - and some thoughts (rant?)

[lordmonar]

Being a "necessary evil" doesn't exactly stir the hearts of men.

"Join the CAP and become a tolerated economic necessity..."

It is more then just a economic necessity.   Those that pay us really do like us.  Those we work for really like use.  Those that don't work with us......just don't know who we are.   Which in the USAF is no difference then any other squadron in relation to yours.   In the USAF the world revolves about YOU and YOUR squadron.  If you are Comm....that is the center of the world and I would not know what a Test and Evaluation Squadron is....except that need 20 phones, 10 NIPR computers, 5 SIPR dropps and they keep asking for satellite TV.   Last I checked there were very few TV commercials saying "Join the Air Force and work the trouble calls desk". 
We ain't sexy....but we are vitally important to getting bombs on target.

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

I'd venture to guess that the majority of the AF doesn't even know we exist, and the one's that do, don't care either way.

True.  And who owns the problem with that?

That is, unless they hear of some apocryphal story about a CAP officer trying to "make them salute."

[Storm Chaser]

I'd venture to guess that the majority of the AF doesn't even know we exist, and the one's that do, don't care either way.

True.  And who owns the problem with that?

Why is that a problem? I'm not familiar with every single component, organization or capability of the Air Force. CAP is just a small part of that. The people who need to know who we are do. That's all that matters.

That is, unless they hear of some apocryphal story about a CAP officer trying to "make them salute."

I think this whole thing is apocryphal in itself. Never have I encountered someone in the Air Force who's said anything remotely close to that. Even if you've unfortunately experienced that, that doesn't make it a widespread problem.

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

That is, unless they hear of some apocryphal story about a CAP officer trying to "make them salute."

I think this whole thing is apocryphal in itself. Never have I encountered someone in the Air Force who's said anything remotely close to that. Even if you've unfortunately experienced that, that doesn't make it a widespread problem.

I haven't experienced it directly, for several reasons.

I have never tried to troll for a salute from a military member.  If I receive one, which is rare from AF members but not other services, it's a nice bonus.  I'm just as content with a friendly greeting.

I always salute officers senior in grade to me, even if they're foreign and I don't recognise their rank.  My first squadron CC talked about when he was at Maxwell he would see Germans, French, Dutch, British, Canadian, Australian, Japanese et. al. personnel and he always saluted them.  He said "I may have been saluting Corporals but at least I know I'm within regs."  I take the same approach.

I have never spent a lot of time on a USAF base in a CAP capacity.  The nearest to me is an ANGB and the only reason I go there is maybe once a year to MCSS, and then I transact my business and get in and out.

On the extremely few times it apparently has happened...well, General Courter felt it necessary to issue a memorandum on the matter.

https://www.capnhq.gov/news/Documents/Military_Salute_Letter_to_all_CAP_members.pdf

[Storm Chaser]

Even if that's happened on occasion, it doesn't mean that it's a systemic problem within CAP or that the perception of most Air Force personnel is that CAP members are always trolling for salutes. I would say that that's the exception, not the rule.

[JeffDG]

On the extremely few times it apparently has happened...well, General Courter felt it necessary to issue a memorandum on the matter.

https://www.capnhq.gov/news/Documents/Military_Salute_Letter_to_all_CAP_members.pdf

Our Wing/CC made clear that his reaction to such an incident would be simple.  It started with the number "2" and ended with the letter "b".

[Garibaldi]

On the extremely few times it apparently has happened...well, General Courter felt it necessary to issue a memorandum on the matter.

https://www.capnhq.gov/news/Documents/Military_Salute_Letter_to_all_CAP_members.pdf

Our Wing/CC made clear that his reaction to such an incident would be simple.  It started with the number "2" and ended with the letter "b".

"CAP membership, brought to you Sesame Street style, by the number 2 and the letter b"

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

Even if that's happened on occasion, it doesn't mean that it's a systemic problem within CAP or that the perception of most Air Force personnel is that CAP members are always trolling for salutes. I would say that that's the exception, not the rule.

Actually, I am (sort of) with you on this one.  It happens MUCH less than the incident described (which made Air Force Times online forum with subsequent online disparaging remarks about CAP) would make one think (I nearly posted a heated rejoinder on this forum, but restrained myself as it wouldn't have made the situation any better).

I have never seen it happen, nor do I know anyone who has.

[NorCal21]

To be honest I view our relationship with the AF like how supply clerks are viewed by infantry in the Marines, or support elements are viewed by Rangers in the Army, etc. We're viewed as a lesser force, but tolerated because of need. I'm sure that's not service wide for those in the AF, but its just my general experience. I know that the USAFA definitely appreciates CAP though based on personal experience.

How does CAP support USAFA?

CAP squadrons in the area, and the one on the installation, do a lot of work for the Academy. They may not these days, but they were heavily active in the past with on base activities such as maintenance, cleaning and promotions.

[Archer]

To be honest I view our relationship with the AF like how supply clerks are viewed by infantry in the Marines, or support elements are viewed by Rangers in the Army, etc. We're viewed as a lesser force, but tolerated because of need. I'm sure that's not service wide for those in the AF, but its just my general experience. I know that the USAFA definitely appreciates CAP though based on personal experience.

How does CAP support USAFA?

CAP squadrons in the area, and the one on the installation, do a lot of work for the Academy. They may not these days, but they were heavily active in the past with on base activities such as maintenance, cleaning and promotions.

Well, yeah, we also used to kill people with bombs; I'm curious as to what we actually do for the academy other than perhaps coincidentally turning our members on to the idea of crossing into the blue.

[NorCal21]

To be honest I view our relationship with the AF like how supply clerks are viewed by infantry in the Marines, or support elements are viewed by Rangers in the Army, etc. We're viewed as a lesser force, but tolerated because of need. I'm sure that's not service wide for those in the AF, but its just my general experience. I know that the USAFA definitely appreciates CAP though based on personal experience.

How does CAP support USAFA?

CAP squadrons in the area, and the one on the installation, do a lot of work for the Academy. They may not these days, but they were heavily active in the past with on base activities such as maintenance, cleaning and promotions.

Well, yeah, we also used to kill people with bombs; I'm curious as to what we actually do for the academy other than perhaps coincidentally turning our members on to the idea of crossing into the blue.

I literally just told you and you even quoted my response.

[Archer]

To be honest I view our relationship with the AF like how supply clerks are viewed by infantry in the Marines, or support elements are viewed by Rangers in the Army, etc. We're viewed as a lesser force, but tolerated because of need. I'm sure that's not service wide for those in the AF, but its just my general experience. I know that the USAFA definitely appreciates CAP though based on personal experience.

How does CAP support USAFA?

CAP squadrons in the area, and the one on the installation, do a lot of work for the Academy. They may not these days, but they were heavily active in the past with on base activities such as maintenance, cleaning and promotions.

Well, yeah, we also used to kill people with bombs; I'm curious as to what we actually do for the academy other than perhaps coincidentally turning our members on to the idea of crossing into the blue.

I literally just told you and you even quoted my response.

"They may not these days[...]" led me to believe that you meant that we used to directly do good things for the Academy, but not anymore. Kind of like how we used to kill Nazi's, but not anymore. Is their anything CAP does currently that supports USAFA other than kind of introducing some tid bits of the Air Force to its members?

[Chappie]

Even if that's happened on occasion, it doesn't mean that it's a systemic problem within CAP or that the perception of most Air Force personnel is that CAP members are always trolling for salutes. I would say that that's the exception, not the rule.

Actually, I am (sort of) with you on this one.  It happens MUCH less than the incident described (which made Air Force Times online forum with subsequent online disparaging remarks about CAP) would make one think (I nearly posted a heated rejoinder on this forum, but restrained myself as it wouldn't have made the situation any better).

I have never seen it happen, nor do I know anyone who has.

Though this does not deal with the trolling for or demanding salutes, this incident did happen: The year was 2000...the place was Honolulu airport and Hickam AFB.  Hickam was the site of the Chaplain Service (now Corps) Region Staff College where a CAP captain (then a MLO/now CDI) called the base making a heavy-handed request of having someone send a car to pick him up at the airport.   Needless to say the Region Chaplain, the National Staff Chaplain (back then an active-duty Chaplain assigned to CAP-USAF HQ), the Region and Wing Commanders, and National Headquarters were not 'happy campers" when they learned of this incident.   Nor was the individual who no longer enjoys membership in CAP.  Since then there has been a lot of discussion regarding protocol as well as the CAP/USAF relationship.

[Eclipse]

In almost all cases it's one idiot, kick them apologize to the base CC (or whoever) and leave the rest of us out of it
instead of issuing "memos", etc., etc.

[Chappie]

In almost all cases it's one idiot, kick them apologize to the base CC (or whoever) and leave the rest of us out of it
instead of issuing "memos", etc., etc.

And one of the "lessons learned" for future schools was making sure that the transportation schedule to and from the airport (or in some cases, train depot) was sent out and acknowledged prior to the event. 

[Eclipse]

http://www.airforcetimes.com/article/20140603/NEWS07/306030068/Deployed-airmen-wear-new-Army-camo-pattern

So start the clock on Scorpion W2 being the new USAF field uniform.  Both houses have directed consolidated field uniforms
by 2018, the USAF and Army will both wear Scorpion while deployed, etc., etc.  My predication is the 2017 "compromise"
is all services in Scorpion for 2019 except for the Marines which will keep MultiCam MARPAT.



CAP has no need for any of it, though I would like to see them move the dark blue field uniform shirts to the slant pockets.

[TheTravelingAirman]

My predication is the 2017 "compromise" is all services in Scorpion for 2019 except for the Marines which will keep MultiCam.

May I assume you mean "MARPAT" versus MultiCam, which they don't wear today (well, as of my deployment, they didn't)?

[Eclipse]

Yah.

[Panache]

CAP has no need for any of it, though I would like to see them move the dark blue field uniform shirts to the slant pockets.

Negative.  Quantum mathematics have shown that there is a non-zero chance that Airman Billy may, in a hypothetical scenario where it is midnight in the middle of winter and there's a blizzard taking place, mistake a CAP member in Blue BDUs for a RealMilitary® officer, and may render a salute.

[Eclipse]

^ You're right.  The velcro pockets alone are an insurmountable issue of low-light audible identification.