Senior Members who Know It All; or Stop being obnoxious

[abdsp51]

I'll add this as well.  If a phase II and up cadet cannot handle being held to an expectation and someone telling them they expected more out of them based on their grade, then they will be in for a rather rude awakening when they enlist in the military, join law enforcement,  enter business, or even enter politics.  They are not always going to be treated with kid gloves and tact will not always be used.   

[AngelWings]

I'll add this as well.  If a phase II and up cadet cannot handle being held to an expectation and someone telling them they expected more out of them based on their grade, then they will be in for a rather rude awakening when they enlist in the military, join law enforcement,  enter business, or even enter politics.  They are not always going to be treated with kid gloves and tact will not always be used.   

But is it acceptable for them to treat you with no tact and with no kid gloves? I've seen cadets do what you're saying is okay, and it never ends up with anyone saying it's acceptable for them to act that way because in the real world it is that way.

[abdsp51]

I'll add this as well.  If a phase II and up cadet cannot handle being held to an expectation and someone telling them they expected more out of them based on their grade, then they will be in for a rather rude awakening when they enlist in the military, join law enforcement,  enter business, or even enter politics.  They are not always going to be treated with kid gloves and tact will not always be used.   

But is it acceptable for them to treat you with no tact and with no kid gloves? I've seen cadets do what you're saying is okay, and it never ends up with anyone saying it's acceptable for them to act that way because in the real world it is that way.

You are missing the point.

  1) I would not ask a cadet a question in regards to something where I know and there is the expectation that I know where to look to find the answers I seek.  If I can not find it in the publication, I look in the supplement if there is one.  If I need clarification on it or still have a question I ask my CoC.  That is what should have happened here and didn't. 

2) I respect the cadets I come across, but I am not always going to cater to them, placate them, or play nicey nice when dealing with them.  A Phase II cadet especially one who holds the grade of C/CMSgt should know how to thoroughly research the resources available to them to the fullest extent possible. 

3) I don't expect to be treated with kid gloves by anyone, if a cadet wants to tell me I am full of it behind close doors with another SM present more power to them.  I can respect a cadet who has the courage to stand up and say something irregardless of how they say it. 

4) The majority of teenagers these days have no idea what tact and kid gloves are due to the norm in society that they are to be catered to and have a sense of entitlement. 

So sorry, but I call it like I see it and I do not sugar coat, if the baby is ugly the baby is ugly, and that is the reality of the world.

[a2capt]

Ironically enough, they were just ripping on CAPTalk in one of the Facebook CAP groups on it being so unfriendly and vicious, especially if you're a cadet.  One person flat-out said "If you're a cadet, whatever you do, don't ask anybody on CAPTalk a question."

Yet, funny that many cadets ask questions here. I think you'll find the ones posting that are some of the very same that also had major attitude issues in general, and were called on it.

[AngelWings]

I'm not missing the point you're making, I'm missing the logic behind your attitude. I understand you're not going to ask a cadet a question that you can find the answer to. I agree with not giving special treatment to cadets. From what you wrote you don't like being called out in front of people, so what's your problem with just messaging people on here and not posting this? I agree wholeheartedly. I deal with those types of people weekly if not daily.

We both agree on not sugar coating things. I think we both can agree that we like hearing the real truth. So, with that being said...

I highly doubt you are being forced to address people on here. You can choose to ignore posts and comments. Everyone here is not required to comment on posts. More so, if it is a problem, have you brought it up with the mods? If you find it an issue, push for it to be in the Membership Code of Conduct. If it becomes written law, feel free to enforce it. If the mods feel like it isn't an issue and therefore acceptable, than ignore the posts and move on. We probably both agree that "Actions speak louder than words." so advocate for these posts

You're free to voice your opinion while adhering to the Membership Code of Conduct. Also, you don't need to be sarcastic. It comes off hostile and there's no reason to be hostile over such a trivial subject such as this. None of my comments are intended to be hostile.

[abdsp51]

I'm not missing the point you're making, I'm missing the logic behind your attitude. I understand you're not going to ask a cadet a question that you can find the answer to. I agree with not giving special treatment to cadets. From what you wrote you don't like being called out in front of people, so what's your problem with just messaging people on here and not posting this? I agree wholeheartedly. I deal with those types of people weekly if not daily.

We both agree on not sugar coating things. I think we both can agree that we like hearing the real truth. So, with that being said...

I highly doubt you are being forced to address people on here. You can choose to ignore posts and comments. Everyone here is not required to comment on posts. More so, if it is a problem, have you brought it up with the mods? If you find it an issue, push for it to be in the Membership Code of Conduct. If it becomes written law, feel free to enforce it. If the mods feel like it isn't an issue and therefore acceptable, than ignore the posts and move on. We probably both agree that "Actions speak louder than words." so advocate for these posts

You're free to voice your opinion while adhering to the Membership Code of Conduct. Also, you don't need to be sarcastic. It comes off hostile and there's no reason to be hostile over such a trivial subject such as this. None of my comments are intended to be hostile.

You are missing the point and the logic.  This goes back to what I have been saying about teaching to fish and not fishing for them.  And I said that if a cadet wants to say something behind closed doors and be honest about it and not use tact then so be it.  I do not have an issue with people commenting on posts or even the creation of this thread.  I voice my opinion and I do so within guidelines.  I can tell that if that same question is posed during BMT/Boot Camp then I can guarantee that the DI/TI will not be as kind as I was. 

[KarlIceman]

WIWAC/CMSgt, knowing the uniform manual was an expectation.

WIWAC and now, I'd rather a cadet knew how to be a good NCO and focused on learning the material for his or her next achievement rather than minutiae of uniforms.  Knowing where the manual is and how to read it?  Great. Move on.  For anything more complicated than the basics, if you're unsure, ask someone.  Which the OP did.  Notice the OP specifically said he already looked in 39-1 for the answer, but still had questions.  That's okay.

What's not okay is for a C/CMSgt to come in and say "Hey, how many inches should my chevrons be from the edge of the collar?" without having looked into CAPM 39-1.  Because that's a clear cut and dried issue and the answer is there.


Do you understand the difference?


In case not, I'm going to be a little more clear this post: lay off the OP and stop being curmudgeons.  You're not that salty.

What about Senior or Officer Members Major and above who do not know how to wear a USAF Style uniform properly.
For those of you who may have attended the 2013 NSC you know what I am referring about.  It took a week of reminding some members as to what the proper undershirt was authorized with the short sleeved blue shirt.....

[abdsp51]

What about Senior or Officer Members Major and above who do not know how to wear a USAF Style uniform properly.
For those of you who may have attended the 2013 NSC you know what I am referring about.  It took a week of reminding some members as to what the proper undershirt was authorized with the short sleeved blue shirt.....

Then they should have been dismissed from the course and sent home.

[Eclipse]

What about Senior or Officer Members Major and above who do not know how to wear a USAF Style uniform properly.
For those of you who may have attended the 2013 NSC you know what I am referring about.  It took a week of reminding some members as to what the proper undershirt was authorized with the short sleeved blue shirt...

At the NSC level, no one should need correcting on uniforms, protocol, or any other Level I issues.

NSC is supposed to be preparing Lt Cols for national service.  If you can't wear the uniform correctly by Level IV, you're pretty much cooked.

[LSThiker]

NSC is supposed to be preparing Lt Cols for national service.  If you can't wear the uniform correctly by Level IV, you're pretty much cooked.

I would say more like after 6 months into the program.  I mean if we expect cadets to know how to wear the uniform by the time they reach phase II, then I would definitely say seniors should know how to wear the uniform by 6 months, especially if it is the corporate service uniform.  If they do not know how to wear it by the time they reach 1st Lt (or equivalent time in CAP), then they are cooked.

[Eclipse]

I agree 100%.  Appearance and bearing should absolutely be considered for promotions and even some visible staff roles.

It's both shocking and no longer surprising how poorly some people with oaks dress, or even understand the program they
supposedly want to be a leader in.

[LSThiker]

or even understand the program they
supposedly want to be a leader in.

Do I detect a bit of a jab in there? 

[KarlIceman]

What about Senior or Officer Members Major and above who do not know how to wear a USAF Style uniform properly.
For those of you who may have attended the 2013 NSC you know what I am referring about.  It took a week of reminding some members as to what the proper undershirt was authorized with the short sleeved blue shirt...

At the NSC level, no one should need correcting on uniforms, protocol, or any other Level I issues.

NSC is supposed to be preparing Lt Cols for national service.  If you can't wear the uniform correctly by Level IV, you're pretty much cooked.


Those were the thoughts of many in attendance but who were we to bring about discipline?

[Eclipse]

or even understand the program they
supposedly want to be a leader in.

Do I detect a bit of a jab in there? 

Honestly, no.

[Alaric]

or even understand the program they
supposedly want to be a leader in.

Do I detect a bit of a jab in there? 

Honestly, no.

Dont you sleep?

[a2capt]

Between posts.

[NIN]

Agreed.  Out of curiosity, how many cadets are truly active posters vs the number of SM that post?  If I were a cadet that posted a question and received "I would expect more from a C/CMSgt" or "look it up in the regulation", why would I want to return?  Does not this eventual defeat the purpose of forums like CAPTalk and Cadetstuff (now defunct).

To be fair: We had our fair share of that over on CadetStuff, too.

Every 30-60 days, you'd get a pop up: "Hey, I wanna wear [a beret|boonie|cord|CIB|CMB|RAAAANGER! Tab|My Uncle's Vietnam-awarded Purple Heart|whatever]."

After awhile, it becomes ... tiring ... to repeat the same answer over and over (trust me, it does).

So after the 93rd time, you start saying "Could you do a quick search before you post something like this?"

Now, lets face it: 13-15 year old cadets are not about the "long game."  They want a direct, immediate, authoritative and factual answer to their specific question right NOW.   "I can't be bothered to look this up, ask my local leadership, or think for myself. You please do it for me."

Eventually, folks stop seeing forums as places "to get their questions answered." (you can get questions answered in forums, but it requires a fair amount of engagement and discourse, not just hit and run "Gimme an answer.")

Eventually, Facebook will become the same way as people get sick of folks asking the "You Know You're in CAP When..." group similar questions.  (but there is not the same level of institutional knowledge/history that is searchable there, so the phrase "Search is your friend" isn't a player)

BTW, CadetStuff is technically not "Defunct"

[GroundHawg]

What about Senior or Officer Members Major and above who do not know how to wear a USAF Style uniform properly.
For those of you who may have attended the 2013 NSC you know what I am referring about.  It took a week of reminding some members as to what the proper undershirt was authorized with the short sleeved blue shirt...

At the NSC level, no one should need correcting on uniforms, protocol, or any other Level I issues.

NSC is supposed to be preparing Lt Cols for national service.  If you can't wear the uniform correctly by Level IV, you're pretty much cooked.

My favorite is when I'm looking through photos on CAP websites and find flagrantly and blatantly incorrect uniforms. They are almost always Maj and Ltc's....

I don't know why, its just my observation.