Senior Members who Know It All; or Stop being obnoxious

[LSThiker]

And no it would not help the organization to require CP officers to have a teen behavioral or psychology course,  that is like requiring all SM who pursue the officer track to have a degree. 

No it is not.  A 1-hour eLearning course similar to the Level 1 courses is nothing like requiring CAP officers to have a degree.

Sorry but a senior Phase II cadet and up should know by that point in the program how to look up the information they seek, how to interpret them.  There is nothing with holding someone to a standard.

You missed what HGJunkie and I said.  Why is not that same standard being held to senior members that ask the same question.  In all honesty, any SM beyond the first 6 months in the program should already know how to look up answers in regs.  To quote you "Cadets [and Seniors] need to learn how to look the information up and not take the easy way out."  But cadets are not necessarily treated like that.  Cadet seem to be jumped on quickly.

[HGjunkie]

I guess holding cadets to a standard is wrong...

There's not an issue with holding cadets to a standard.

However, this is the better way to handle these situations:

[Clueless cadet question]
"What kind of boots can I wear with my BDUs?"

[Tactful Senior Member post]
"You can wear black leather boots, or jungle boots with green canvas on the sides. If you are unsure of anything regarding uniforms, please consult CAPM 39-1 and the 2012 ICL published on capmembers.com."

[Tim Medeiros]

I agree a tactful response is required in most cases.  However, HGjunkie, would you expect a question like the one you posted from a Mitchell cadet?  Likely a cadet who has conducted uniform inspections?  That is what abdsp51 is trying to get at.

I also agree, that there is a double standard on this board.  However the primary reason I see that is with a cadet, there is a set single promotion standard, you can tell on average the responsibility of a cadet (as defined by the leadership expectations NHQ has published) and approximately the minimum time a cadet has been in the program just by looking at their collar or shoulder.  For a SM, you can't, plain and simple, the only exceptions being O-6 and above.  So most people I've seen on here treat seniors with those similar questions like that because we have NO CLUE how long they've been in unless they specifically advertise such in their post and/or signature.

[abdsp51]

Oh I see now because i didn't sugar coat and say pretty please nicey nice about it is the real issue.  And LSThiker I would have said the same thing to a senior member asking the same question.  And sorry a 1 hour e learning course is not enough to be proficient in dealing with teens at all. 

Sorry but a cadet senior NCO and cadet officer should know where to research all avenues looking for information besides taking the easy way out. 

Sorry but one can be tactful and expect more out of senior cadets than take the easy way out.

[HGjunkie]

I agree a tactful response is required in most cases.  However, HGjunkie, would you expect a question like the one you posted from a Mitchell cadet?  Likely a cadet who has conducted uniform inspections?  That is what abdsp51 is trying to get at.

No, but that's what the PM system is for. Embarrassing someone for the sake of "should've known better" on a forum is counterproductive and asinine. I mean, even I'm still learning certain nuances about different activity patches (certain combinations of patches can't be worn at the same time apparently due to the wording of 39-1; something I never would have guessed was an issue), and I'm entering Phase IV. Things slip through the cracks, confusion ensues, and sometimes the manual isn't as easily comprehendible by a 15 year old as it is by a 50 year old.

[raivo]

Embarrassing someone for the sake of "should've known better" on a forum is counterproductive and asinine.

It is also a routine practice in CAP. I don't know why, but there's a significant population within CAP that gets off on being right when other people are "wrong."

[AngelWings]

The amount of people who take themselves too seriously here is rather hilarious

[HGjunkie]

I'd also like to point out that whenever this happens, no consequence of public image or even corporate/Air Force image is given a fleeting thought. We have Military Officers, non-CAP members, and even the National Commander browsing this board. What does it say to those people when some senior members take the liberty of "educating" a cadet about how they should not have asked a question?

It doesn't present a good image. I'm a proud Guardsman of Civil Air Patrol, and it'll be a snowy day in Florida before I see people regard CAP as toxic due to this forum.

[SarDragon]

The difference in responses is the same as the difference between a "seasoned" cadet approaching the Mitchell award, and a new senior member assembling a uniform for the first time.

In the first case, there is a reasonable expectation of prior knowledge; in the second, there is not.

[MSG Mac]

I would expect any member Cadet or Senior who's been in CAP long enough to be an Officer or Senior NCO to know how to find a regulation. years ago the only way to access the regulations, manuals, etc. was to get a subscription from National HQ. Today anyone can read, download, or print the information needed. maybe what we need at the local levels is a class on how E-services works and what is available there.

[Майор Хаткевич]

I'd also like to point out that whenever this happens, no consequence of public image or even corporate/Air Force image is given a fleeting thought. We have Military Officers, non-CAP members, and even the National Commander browsing this board. What does it say to those people when some senior members take the liberty of "educating" a cadet about how they should not have asked a question?

It doesn't present a good image. I'm a proud Guardsman of Civil Air Patrol, and it'll be a snowy day in Florida before I see people regard CAP as toxic due to this forum.

Get off the high horse. I was also once the saviour of the standard as a cadet. No one cares.

A cadet with 1+ years in CAP has seen the uniforms worn hundreds of times. Has a commander and a CoC at the unit. Should at least know where to look beyond Ctrl+F key words that don't always work.

[Panache]

Side note, this thread is a beautiful example of why CAPTalk is widely regarded as a poisonous environment.

"[darn] kids!  Get off my CAPTalk's lawn!"

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

Those who know everything are quite an annoyance to those who do.

In my personal opinion, CT can be, but is not always, toxic in some of the tones of the conversations.  When it gets that way, I butt out for a while because I am just as capable and culpable as anyone else in contributing to such an atmosphere.

That said, I always say that the only silly/stupid question is the one you don't ask.

Maybe what we need at the local levels is a class on how E-services works and what is available there.

Not the worst idea I've found today.  Sometimes the "deeper" functions of it confuse me.

[Panache]

Those who know everything are quite an annoyance to those who do.

In my personal opinion, CT can be, but is not always, toxic in some of the tones of the conversations. 

Ironically enough, they were just ripping on CAPTalk in one of the Facebook CAP groups on it being so unfriendly and vicious, especially if you're a cadet.  One person flat-out said "If you're a cadet, whatever you do, don't ask anybody on CAPTalk a question."

[AngelWings]

Those who know everything are quite an annoyance to those who do.

In my personal opinion, CT can be, but is not always, toxic in some of the tones of the conversations. 

Ironically enough, they were just ripping on CAPTalk in one of the Facebook CAP groups on it being so unfriendly and vicious, especially if you're a cadet.  One person flat-out said "If you're a cadet, whatever you do, don't ask anybody on CAPTalk a question."

I remember seeing a few of the personal user names on here being mentioned, too. It's funny, the descriptions of the posters mentioned seem to be accurate.

[abdsp51]

From what I have seen usually a cadet gets this perceived bashing in the uniform part of the board.  The other categories a question is asked it is answered.  Uniform questions get the reaction because a cadets leadership should be teaching them how to fish and look up the info and not allowing them to take the easy way out.  Most uniform questions are a cadet trying to take the easy way and have the answer handed to them.

[Alaric]

I'd also like to point out that whenever this happens, no consequence of public image or even corporate/Air Force image is given a fleeting thought. We have Military Officers, non-CAP members, and even the National Commander browsing this board. What does it say to those people when some senior members take the liberty of "educating" a cadet about how they should not have asked a question?

It doesn't present a good image. I'm a proud Guardsman of Civil Air Patrol, and it'll be a snowy day in Florida before I see people regard CAP as toxic due to this forum.

Not much you can do about how other people see things.  I'd rather the Military Officers, non-CAP members and National Commander see things as they are as opposed to how they may like them to be.  The truth is there is alot in CAP that is toxic as the result of small mindedness, empire building, and politicking.  Welcome to the human race and almost every organization out there.  You want to change it, go for it. 

[VNY]

Not much you can do about how other people see things.  I'd rather the Military Officers, non-CAP members and National Commander see things as they are as opposed to how they may like them to be.  The truth is there is a lot in CAP that is toxic as the result of small mindedness, empire building, and politicking.  Welcome to the human race and almost every organization out there.  You want to change it, go for it.

Almost?  Though granted, CAP has more than the average.  With money out of the picture as a motivating factor, it ramps up all the other reasons.

[Eclipse]

Ironically enough, they were just ripping on CAPTalk in one of the Facebook CAP groups on it being so unfriendly and vicious, especially if you're a cadet.  One person flat-out said "If you're a cadet, whatever you do, don't ask anybody on CAPTalk a question."

Yes, because Facebook is such a beacon of discourse and civility.

In most cases, the people who have the least "fun" here are the ones who want to "tell us a question", or are trying to
get support for some wrong assertion or incorrect interpretation that they know is probably 1/2-baked before they start typing.

That or they are telling tales they shouldn't be and then get indignant when we don't come to their aid or side of the 1/2-story.

[Eclipse]

I'd rather the Military Officers, non-CAP members and National Commander see things as they are as opposed to how they may like them to be.

Bam, right there.