Web Hosting Options for *.cap.gov

Started by a2capt, September 06, 2013, 06:01:17 PM

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

a2capt

Lame story short:

A current site that's hosted on a server that appears to have no additional services installed, or at least available to the account, other than Front Page Extensions. Yay.

I have an FTP account to the site, and that's it.

Uploading php test fiels results in the php being displayed raw. So, no php on the server. Matters not, as I can't even make a database anyway. Even if that was there.

When I asked the provider about the account, the answer I got was "we can't tell you anything". I'm actually good with that, except if I'm in a position of taking over and trying to establish that I'm the responsible party now, there seems to be no way to do that.  The attempt is to find out what it would take to get the hosting "upgraded" to "modern" standards. Looking at their page, it's evident that they do in fact offer normal modern 21st century hosting.

So my choice is now, find a different provider, that is good with our 501(c)(3) and the NESSUS scan compliance that comes with hosting a .gov domain.

Any suggestions on who to use?

I do get the impression that all DNS entries need to be put through NHQ, and with that, a lot of the shared host providers that want to control DNS for you, will probably not work.

Eclipse

Google Apps for Nonprofits.

Use their sites templates and spend your time doing real CAP work.

Free, secure, already in use all over CAP including NHQ.

"That Others May Zoom"

Tim Day

Does NHQ use Google Apps for Nonprofits / Google Sites for the actual web page, or just for email accounts? 
Tim Day
Lt Col CAP
Prince William Composite Squadron Commander

Eclipse

I know they use it for email, but the websites are custom deals - far more then any unit needs.

Sites has templates to accommodate pretty much anything - organizations, activities file repositories, etc., without having to become a programmer or use a custom css.

"That Others May Zoom"

RangerConlin

Why do you need a .gov domain?  I dont know of any CAP unit that uses it anymore, not even the main website.  Most websites are now either a .com or a .org domain.

Personally, I use google sites for my squadron's page.

JeffDG

Quote from: RangerConlin on September 06, 2013, 07:18:31 PM
Why do you need a .gov domain?  I dont know of any CAP unit that uses it anymore, not even the main website.  Most websites are now either a .com or a .org domain.

Personally, I use google sites for my squadron's page.
Well, if the Cap.Gov admin gets his way, it'll be mandatory to use it.

a2capt

Quote from: Tim Medeiros on July 11, 2013, 01:53:59 PMJust to point out, that proposal was actually authored by Col Webb, the cap.gov domain administrator.  He is another that I have an issue with.  When trying to setup a system to work with Google, his response to a clearly DNS issue was to use a "standard email provider".
From another thread that brought up similar issues, and ultimately why I decided "lets just get the stuff working on the right domain", since that's where we should be.

I ask NHQ IT, I get referred to the cap.gov administrator, and the response I get, "you're free to use any host you want .. (that will agree to the .gov bit..)

We have a working solution now, but no one knows who set it up, and simply dodges that part of the email when asked. I'm sure with a few clicks that provider could "upgrade" service. Seems like an incredible waste of resources, time and such. NHQ provided the FTP access late last year, you've gotta figure they know who set it up. But their answer completely ignores that and says "move it". So then what?

I can see why a bunch of wing's, units, etc. have said "screw this" and thrown in the towel. Myself included for our unit, as the Wing at the time had been promising a server upgrade for nearly 5 years.

I'm working with a neighboring smaller wing to get their Wing and ultimately, unit sites, into the 21st century.

I want more control than "sites" templates. The intended goal is a CMS / blog coupled with cloud services, like Google Apps, Calendar, Drive, etc. I can't do the CMS on the site now because there's no PHP or MySQL support.  I can't get it from the host provider because they won't talk to me, because I didn't set up the the thing in the first place, and whoever that is, is long gone, or perhaps even unknown to anyone but the current host provider, who won't actually acknowledge anything to me that they even do host the content.

It's completely stupid.

So, the next step, arrange hosting elsewhere, hence the thread query. Then put in a DNS change request, and send the current provider another email that says "well, you don't get the write off that you had, because your no longer hosting it since you wouldn't help me, it's moved."

As for the "standard email provider" comment above. Pot. Kettle. Black. cap.gov uses Google Apps for email, too. Yet when a subordinate unit wants to use it, they get the flick back? It sounds like they wouldn't do the needed mx record change anyway, then. Did that ever happen?

I'm so un-thrilled with the level of support we get from our HQ sometimes.

NIN

Quote from: a2capt on September 06, 2013, 06:01:17 PM
Lame story short:

A current site that's hosted on a server that appears to have no additional services installed, or at least available to the account, other than Front Page Extensions. Yay.

Emphasis mine.

How 2001 of them.
Darin Ninness, Col, CAP
I have no responsibilities whatsoever
I like to have Difficult Adult Conversations™
The contents of this post are Copyright © 2007-2024 by NIN. All rights are reserved. Specific permission is given to quote this post here on CAP-Talk only.

Spaceman3750

Consider running a virtual server at Rackspace or similar. It's not too expensive for a low-bandwidth site and should resolve all of your issues.

SunDog

Heard somone mention being happy with Dreamhost for a low volume, light traffic site, for low cost - I don't know anything about them, though.

You are probably right to take the .gov and find hosting elsewhere - NHQ may be a very long way, in time and vision, from adopting IT best practices. It's a shsme, but it is what it is. . .

a2capt

Some "stats"

From a total of 61 CAP sites: (one each wing, region and NHQ)

Hosting by TLD
.gov 23/1
.org 20
.us 10

.com 5
.net 1
Facebook   1

Just under half are actively using a cap.gov domain. UTWG uses utah.gov - Not including ones that just redirect you away from the .gov. I included those in the categories where they ultimate reside.

Of the ones in cap.gov, four use some sort of PHP based CMS, those are CAWG*, MSWG, NJWG and NER HQ.

All the rest of the cap.gov hosted sites are static pages.

Of the ones using other TLDs, (.com, .org.. ) most are using some sort of CMS.

Some observations based on these findings:

The proposal to require .cap.gov usage is going to be interesting. If just figuring that those Wing's not using .cap.gov, will probably have -none- of their subordinate units using .cap.gov, and even those that do use it, not all subordinate units use the cap.gov TLD.

As Eclipse says in another thread, "A great use of volunteers time .. moving all that content. " That's going to be a declaration of war in and of itself.

It would seem that much more than half of our organizations web presence is outside of the .cap.gov TLD, and those that are, a great majority of them are using some variety of CMS and modern web server infrastructure, where as the ones that are still within the .cap.gov TLD are for all intents, all using static pages.

Based on this, I'd have to say that it would certainly appear that if one desires to host in an environment where modern advances are desired to be part of the user experience, that moving from the .cap.gov TLD is the way to do it.

The question is why.

If the position of .cap.gov administrator ever opens up, I'm applying.

NIN

Quote from: SunDog on September 07, 2013, 03:45:03 AM
Heard somone mention being happy with Dreamhost for a low volume, light traffic site, for low cost - I don't know anything about them, though.

You are probably right to take the .gov and find hosting elsewhere - NHQ may be a very long way, in time and vision, from adopting IT best practices. It's a shsme, but it is what it is. . .

You fax them a determination letter and *poof* you have free hosting.  A LOT of people I know use Dreamhost's "free for non-profit" hosting.
Darin Ninness, Col, CAP
I have no responsibilities whatsoever
I like to have Difficult Adult Conversations™
The contents of this post are Copyright © 2007-2024 by NIN. All rights are reserved. Specific permission is given to quote this post here on CAP-Talk only.

a2capt

Yes, including myself. I've got a couple accounts setup on DH already, in addition to my own personal account for BS hosting.

I just got confirmation from them, that they have no issue with cap.gov either.

So.. now to plot my plan of action.. ;-)

JeffDG

Quote from: a2capt on September 07, 2013, 08:08:00 AM
The proposal to require .cap.gov usage is going to be interesting. If just figuring that those Wing's not using .cap.gov, will probably have -none- of their subordinate units using .cap.gov, and even those that do use it, not all subordinate units use the cap.gov TLD.
But, remember...as of the new CAPR 110-1 (http://www.capmembers.com/media/cms/R110_001_FE23FC8744B15.pdf), any unit with a CAP Internet Presence needs:
a)  The approval of the Wing/CC or higher (or designee)
Quote11. Approval to Conduct CAP Internet Operation.
a. CAP units conducting CAP internet operations (including cap.gov domains) must obtain and maintain a record of approval from the CAP/CC or applicable region, wing commander or their designee. The NHQ/CO or designee approves CAPNHQ.gov domain delegations.
b)  An annual review of their site on or before September 30
Quotec. A listing of all approved domain names and websites will be maintained in eServices and will include the URL, webmaster, unit commander, date of approval and date of latest review. Reviews shall be conducted and re-approval documented prior to 30 September each year. All units will provide their respective wing headquarters with the login credentials and hosting information to their websites to ensure a continuity plan exists. If the webmaster should leave, someone should be able to take over duties easily.

So, now, everyone has to input their web sites into eServices for the review process.