Uniform for this weekends Parade

[capbobsand]

This Saturday our squadron along with several others are going to march in the very large San Diego Gay Pride Parade. We have been invited to march along with our Air Force brethren with the Civil Air Patrol leading a large contingent in our AF Blues. The DOD has authorized all military members to wear their official uniform for the parade. The Civil Air Patrol to my knowledge has not come out with anything official like the DOD. The California Wing has also been mute on this when asked. Is it safe to say we can all wear our uniforms with our squadron CO's approval? This is going to be a great event to showcase the Civil Air Patrol and our diverse membership. It will also be a great recruitment opportunity for all of us. We right now have over 50 CAP members (Cadets/Seniors) and 300 Military Members signed up.  :clap:

http://news.yahoo.com/members-march-gay-pride-parade-215510972.html

[Eclipse]

If this is an approved activity, you wear whatever your unit CC tells you to wear.

[cadetesman]

This seems like it could get rather controversial...

[abdsp51]

This seems like it could get rather controversial...

It very well could.

[Garibaldi]

Much as I hate to say it, this sounds like a parade aimed in a political direction...which CAP regs specifically state that uniforms can't be worn to. I personally support LGBT rights and if something like this came to our Bible Belt area, I'd be the first to show support. But I don't think CAP and a gay rights parade will mix. Too many close-minded people equate gays with child molesters, and that's something the Boy Scouts have made pretty clear with their bylaws against gay scout leaders. "Oh, no, them gayfolk are gonna turn our kids into hommasekshuls."

I'm not saying don't do it, but the dividing line between showing support for the LGBT community and the parade being a political act needs to be durn clear. If your CC approves of it, then do it. I applaud your courage in taking a stand on this.  :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: Most people wouldn't, especially in my neck of the woods.

[Brad]

I don't think there are enough eggshells in the world to walk over this issue. I saw the article about the DOD letting military members wear their uniforms in the parade, and it mentioned it is a one-time exception. I can understand the military members' desire to do this for their personal reasons, however with CAP and moreover the concepts of the cadet programs and what parents feel comfortable with their children being exposed to, it becomes a whole new ballgame.

Plus, the exception the DOD is speaking of is the same one that CAP gets its uniform restrictions from in CAPM 39-1. AFI 36-2903 section 1.4.2 says the Air Force uniform will not be worn, "While participating in public speeches, interviews, picket lines, marches or rallies or in any public demonstration when participation may imply Air Force sanction of the cause." CAP of course has similar restrictions, in CAPM 39-1 table 1-1 marked under do not wear: "when participating in activities such as public speeches, interviews, picket lines, marches, rallies, or in any public demonstration not approved by the Air Force. Wearing the uniform may imply sanction of the cause for which the demonstration or activity is conducted."

See then the issue of "approval" comes into play. Has Ma' Blue and the DOD given "approval" to this, or by exception do they mean they simply are looking the other way in light of DADT being lifted?

Note that 39-1 says the Squadron CC can designate WHICH uniform is worn, not the wear or non-wear. Only 39-1 can tell us that.

[Eclipse]

See then the issue of "approval" comes into play. Has Ma' Blue and the DOD given "approval" to this, or by exception do they mean they simply are looking the other way in light of DADT being lifted?

For all the reasons stated, I would say that the Wing CC should be directly consulted regarding the approval of this activity.

[Майор Хаткевич]

On the CAP side of the house, I'm thinking this is an issue that needs to be addressed WELL above Squadron/Group, maybe even Wing level.

Now, when it comes to parades like this, at least in Chicago we have local and state politicians with floats, veterans groups, and I THINK I saw some Navy service members, but I can't say if they were doing it against regs, out of service, or something other.

[SarDragon]

I do not see this ending well. Your CC needs to get the Wing CC involved.

[abdsp51]

I do not see this ending well. Your CC needs to get the Wing CC involved.

+1 and I guess our CSAF & CMSAF must have missed sending that memo out.

[capbobsand]

California Wing has been notified via email two weeks ago, but no response and everyone's plans are already in the works. NHQ also knows about this via email one week ago, but again mute. We had an official meeting a few hours ago with the event staff to include San Diego Mayor and they are looking forward to us being in the parade representing the CAP. After this weekend there will probably be several news stories about the CAP and all the military services involved. This has been brought up to the highest levels, but when the emails are ignored we need to follow our squadron CC as stated. This is classified by the DOD as a non-political event and that is why the Sec of Def is authorizing the military to wear their uniforms. I and all the rest of the CAP cadets/Senior Members participating look at this being a great way to showcase to the world the great things CAP does for their communities. This is actually turning into something bigger than just a local parade and we want to make sure CAP is represented properly and per the regulations, so no member ends up in trouble. So far it is just the squadron CC approval for everyone. It would turn into a real black eye for CAP if at this point two days to go we were told otherwise by NHQ. Everything is already ordered and set. Recruiting material is ready and as well as other information about how we serve America as volunteers. Semper Vigilans!

[lordmonar]

I wonder why you posted your question here at all.

You seem to have done your due dilegince in getting wing and national to veto it.
You have followed your chain of command...for lack of guidance.
You seem to indicate that the USAF does not have a problem with it.

You got your ducks in a row......have fun......but beware the fall out.

[capbobsand]

I don't think there are enough eggshells in the world to walk over this issue. I saw the article about the DOD letting military members wear their uniforms in the parade, and it mentioned it is a one-time exception. I can understand the military members' desire to do this for their personal reasons, however with CAP and moreover the concepts of the cadet programs and what parents feel comfortable with their children being exposed to, it becomes a whole new ballgame.

Plus, the exception the DOD is speaking of is the same one that CAP gets its uniform restrictions from in CAPM 39-1. AFI 36-2903 section 1.4.2 says the Air Force uniform will not be worn, "While participating in public speeches, interviews, picket lines, marches or rallies or in any public demonstration when participation may imply Air Force sanction of the cause." CAP of course has similar restrictions, in CAPM 39-1 table 1-1 marked under do not wear: "when participating in activities such as public speeches, interviews, picket lines, marches, rallies, or in any public demonstration not approved by the Air Force. Wearing the uniform may imply sanction of the cause for which the demonstration or activity is conducted."

See then the issue of "approval" comes into play. Has Ma' Blue and the DOD given "approval" to this, or by exception do they mean they simply are looking the other way in light of DADT being lifted?

Note that 39-1 says the Squadron CC can designate WHICH uniform is worn, not the wear or non-wear. Only 39-1 can tell us that.

Sir,

Just for the record, "Ma' Blue" has approved this as per the attachement from the Assistant Sec Def. http://sdpride.org/xinha_user/files/Request_for_Guidance_Regarding_the_SD_Pride_Parade.pdf

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

I wonder why you posted your question here at all.

You seem to have done your due dilegince in getting wing and national to veto it.
You have followed your chain of command...for lack of guidance.
You seem to indicate that the USAF does not have a problem with it.

You got your ducks in a row......have fun......but beware the fall out.

And I'd lay odds there will be some fallout.

DADT hasn't been repealed that long, and the Armed Forces are still trying to figure out how to comply.  I wonder how MTI's and their counterparts in the other Services are dealing with it in BMT.

Culturally, San Diego is very different from, for example, the Southeast and Midwest/Plains.  There are still a lot of people who don't like it that DADT has been repealed.  This is a big country with a lot of people who have widely divergent points of view.

My feeling about this isn't that it's just an LGBT issue.  What consenting adults do in their private lives is of no concern to me.

Something about this just smells of "political minefield."

[NC Hokie]

Just for the record, "Ma' Blue" has approved this as per the attachement from the Assistant Sec Def. http://sdpride.org/xinha_user/files/Request_for_Guidance_Regarding_the_SD_Pride_Parade.pdf

California Wing has been notified via email two weeks ago, but no response and everyone's plans are already in the works. NHQ also knows about this via email one week ago, but again mute.

This is just my personal opinion, but I'd be hesitant to participate in this event based on the justifications quoted above. DOD approval may not apply to CAP (being that we're incorporated as a civilian auxilliary of the USAF), and I would NEVER take silence from higher headquarters as tacit approval for something that, by regulations, is either forbidden or falls into a gray area like this.

Think of it this way: If this evolves into some sort of political statement, DOD can't do anything about the participants other than say "approving this was a mistake that we won't make again." CAP, on the other hand, can legitimately say "they didn't have approval to do this," and initiate separation proceedings at will.

Also, as a leader, I absolutely would NOT tell my subordinates that it's okay because DOD is cool with it and higher HQ has not said no. I would honestly explain the situation, be up front about the potential risks, and tell them that they are responsible for any actions that come about as a result of their participation.

[abdsp51]

Also an assistant secretary signed the memo addressing to the services but that does mean that AF has approved it.  Huge difference here of you have a memo from SECAF, CSAF, OR CMSAF please link it, if not you need to state the actual party. 

Not to mention even though we are an auxillary we are a private corporation as well.

[Garibaldi]

This is a firm case against "Silence gives assent". I would venture a guess that CAWG and NATHQ are remaining silent until it becomes a non-issue, which would be the parade going on without the participation of CAWG members due to no clear ruling on participation.

[754837]

My guess is the OP is trying to stir up a big, nasty debate on CAP Talk.  His first posts are on one of the most controversial topics ever!  Anyway, this is just one man's opinion...

[Eclipse]

Something a lot of members misunderstand - "Aware" does not equal "Approved". 

I would be calling the Wing CC and getting his explicit approval.

[lordmonar]

This is a firm case against "Silence gives assent". I would venture a guess that CAWG and NATHQ are remaining silent until it becomes a non-issue, which would be the parade going on without the participation of CAWG members due to no clear ruling on participation.

Yes....but on that same vein......If higher headquarters gives no guidance.....then the leaders asking the question are left to their best judgement.
It is bad leadership then to hammer the participants for their "bad judgement" when you were aware of the event but did not take action to stop it.

Even a "Stand by while we check this this out", in stead of a straight up Yes/No would be better then silence.

[lordmonar]

Something a lot of members misunderstand - "Aware" does not equal "Approved". 

I would be calling the Wing CC and getting his explicit approval.

Yes and no.
Assuming that you give higher headquarters enought time to react to it.....a "They did not veto it" implies approval....heck we do that with our laws....if the President does not sign the law and does not veto it.......it becomes a law anyway.  In a lot of cases the same applies.
Unless the regulation explicitly says "must be approved in writing" or something to that affect, you are free to use your best judgement.
I challange anyone to come up with a reg that says you MUST get wing approval to particpate in a parade.
The only reg that closely applies is 39-1 where it talks about wearing the uniform at political events.....and in this case the argument can be made that the AF is good with it.....ergo CAP particpation is okay.  If that is not true.....then CAWG and NHQ both dropped the ball and did not veto it.

So like I said before......they did their due dilligence.....and are useing their best judgement.  I do expect fall out.....I think it will just make CAP look stupid if they try to hammer them.....but there you go.

[lordmonar]

Also an assistant secretary signed the memo addressing to the services but that does mean that AF has approved it.  Huge difference here of you have a memo from SECAF, CSAF, OR CMSAF please link it, if not you need to state the actual party. 

Not to mention even though we are an auxillary we are a private corporation as well.

That's the cool part about the chain of command.

The DoD has approved it as policy......now the AF does not have to approve it....they have to veto it and then justify that veto.
Our guidance on when to wear or not wear our uniforms....basically says "if its okay with the AF it is okay with us".
So lacking any feed back from wing and NHQ.......it is left up to the discretion of the local commanders.

It is one of those times where silence is NOT golden.

[Eclipse]

Something a lot of members misunderstand - "Aware" does not equal "Approved". 

I would be calling the Wing CC and getting his explicit approval.

Yes and no.
Assuming that you give higher headquarters enought time to react to it.....a "They did not veto it" implies approval....heck we do that with our laws....

You know that's not how it works.

As to needing approval, it depends on the wing - some wings require anything outside regular meetings to be approved by
the next higher echelon (at least).

The smart thing to do is not play the telephone game and insure everyone is on the same page - that's called protecting your commander.
No one wants to be blind-sided, due diligence, regs, SOP's or otherwise.  That protects everyone involved, including
people who might not even be aware there's an issue.

[Critical AOA]

From the linked article in OP:

Uniformed soldiers in those countries have marched down the streets of Toronto and London next to scantily clad men, drag queens and civil rights activists.

While I support gay rights and am glad that the days of "Don't ask, don't tell" are over, I would prefer not to see military / CAP uniforms in this setting.  If all of the participants were wearing normal clothing, it would be less of an issue but these parades frequently are like a giant circus / freak show.   I have no problem with any military or CAP personnel participating in the parade but the fact it is in uniform does bother me.

[EMT-83]

... If this evolves into some sort of political statement...

How can a Gay Pride parade be considered anything but a political statement?

[abdsp51]

Also an assistant secretary signed the memo addressing to the services but that does mean that AF has approved it.  Huge difference here of you have a memo from SECAF, CSAF, OR CMSAF please link it, if not you need to state the actual party. 

Not to mention even though we are an auxillary we are a private corporation as well.

That's the cool part about the chain of command.

The DoD has approved it as policy......now the AF does not have to approve it....they have to veto it and then justify that veto.
Our guidance on when to wear or not wear our uniforms....basically says "if its okay with the AF it is okay with us".
So lacking any feed back from wing and NHQ.......it is left up to the discretion of the local commanders.

It is one of those times where silence is NOT golden.

Sir, you're right in that the AF doesnt have to approve it, however the OP has stated the AF has ok'd it when it was really the DoD.   If the AF supported it as the OP claimed there would have been something released.  Since they have not IMO this is one of instances where the leadership probably voiced their opinion was overridden, saluted and executed. 

Wearing the our uniform with higher guidance screams bad juju, but to each his own.  I do not think that this is one of those times its better to ask for forgiveness than permission.

[Eclipse]

Just for the record, "Ma' Blue" has approved this as per the attachement from the Assistant Sec Def. http://sdpride.org/xinha_user/files/Request_for_Guidance_Regarding_the_SD_Pride_Parade.pdf

Did you actually read the memo?

Members are approved to participate in a personal capacity.

This isn't remotely approved as an official event by the DoD or any service, nor should anyone in CAP construe DoD approval for personal participation as some sort of blanket approval for CAP to be involved officially.  And if a unit is marching as a unit, that's official involvement.

CAP's being involved has a number of potential issues, both internal and external.  Not being involved won't be a "black eye", no one will even know - unless people choose to make an issue out of it that it is not.

[Critical AOA]

Just for the record, "Ma' Blue" has approved this as per the attachement from the Assistant Sec Def. http://sdpride.org/xinha_user/files/Request_for_Guidance_Regarding_the_SD_Pride_Parade.pdf

Did you actually read the memo?

Members are approved to participate in a personal capacity.

This isn't remotely approved as an official event, nor should anyone in CAP construe DoD approval for personal participation as some sort
of blanket approval for CAP to be involved officially.  And if a unit is marching as a unit, that's official involvement.

Absolutely 100% correct. 

It also mentions military members and service members, neither of which includes CAP members.  We are civilians.  Also CAP HQ was not listed in the distribution list at the top of the memo.  My thoughts are that it does not grant approval to CAP even though the Air Force was included.

[krnlpanick]

I strongly suggest taking this up the CoC immediately for clarification. As mentioned the memo does not mention CAP in any capacity. Also, as noted service members are permitted to participate in an individually capacity, this does not mean that they will be forming ranks and marching as a unit and I suggest that any CAP Members participating in the parade take that into consideration.

While I, like many other's applaud the philosophy behind this, something with this much attention is walking on the razors edge and the media will be there looking for any endorsement they can to report on. Tread proudly, but lightly my friends.

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

I strongly suggest taking this up the CoC immediately for clarification. As mentioned the memo does not mention CAP in any capacity.

Since we wear a modified AF uniform, usually what prohibitions/restrictions the AF applies usually apply to us...especially in the current walking-on-eggshells attitude about uniforms in CAP.  The AF can tell us, "no, you will not wear the AF blue uniform in these circumstances."

However, CAP appearing solely in grey/whites, polos, etc. could well be another issue.

[Persona non grata]

I wonder if there was a hetrosexual pride parade if CAP would be allowed to march in it or a Muslim pride parade!  These parades have more of a polictical tone IMHO.  Stay classy Sand Dieago!!!!

V/R
Ron B.

[AngelWings]

It's a waste of time due to the fact you have so many complications with it.

[754837]

My guess is the OP is trying to stir up a big, nasty debate on CAP Talk.  His first posts are on one of the most controversial topics ever!  Anyway, this is just one man's opinion...

Still standing by this comment...

[Bloodsky]

Cant you guys think of a less controversial way to recruit..?

Look ma, young cadets in uniform, in a gay rights parade.. Go Air Force?

[Private Investigator]

Everything is already ordered and set. Recruiting material is ready and as well as other information about how we serve America as volunteers. Semper Vigilans!

Just like the partnership CAP had with NASCAR. Remember that? And Semper Vigilans you too new guy   

[Private Investigator]

I wonder why you posted your question here at all.


You got your ducks in a row......have fun......but beware the fall out.

Roger that

But newbie "capbobsand" is likely a new member in CAP and next year will not renew and couple years from now another newbie will do the same thing. sigh

[PhotogPilot]

I wonder if there was a hetrosexual pride parade if CAP would be allowed to march in it or a Muslim pride parade!  These parades have more of a polictical tone IMHO.  Stay classy Sand Dieago!!!!

V/R
Ron B.

And proofread your prompter copy.

As to the OP, sorry but my alarm is going off.

[Bloodsky]

I'm sure the other parade go-ers will love our young cadets in uniform.

[Garibaldi]

Wonder how it went...

[SarDragon]

Didn't hear any big news stories about it here. There hasn't been any CAWG traffic on it, either.

[bosshawk]

Saw a photo in the Fresno Bee of a Navy Full Lt in his whites, grinning like a Cheshire cat.  Funny that they didn't mention the CAP cadets in the parade.  Otherwise, not a peep:  the mainstream media must have missed the event(sarcasm).

[mwewing]

I have mixed feelings on CAP participation in such parades. I think demonstrating to the gay community that we would welcome their talents in our ranks is beneficial. We can invite diverse people to our organization without necessarily supporting each and every cause a particular group advocates. However, it can be very difficult to make this distinction in a heavily political environment such as a gay pride parade.

I would also assume that while this squadron is participating as a unit, attendance was in no way required. I would never be in favor of forcing members to ignore their individual values and attend an event they were opposed to. Should any recruits come of such an effort, their sexual orientation would be irrelevant to the business of Civil Air Patrol. At that point you respect each member as an individual and focus on our missions, leaving out any of the personal differences.

I'm sure the other parade go-ers will love our young cadets in uniform.

Sir/Ma'am, you should be ashamed of yourself. If this comment was meant to be funny, you failed miserably. If you meant this as a serious statement then your ignorance must be enlightened. Pedophilia and Homosexuality are two very different things, and to claim that gay and lesbian people target children is completely untrue. Pedophiles target children. Gay and lesbian people are simply attracted to people of the same sex... NOT children. Comments like that, joke or otherwise, only give credence to bigots who blatantly discriminate against homosexuals.

[Extremepredjudice]

Woah, chill out sir. That isn't what he meant. Tossing cadets into a political situation like this isn't a good idea. LGBT rights is a very touchy subject. It isn't a place for CAP. 

[CAP4117]

I read it the same way mwewing did. I found it to be a highly offensive, unprofessional, and completely inaccurate statement that has no business being posted on a CAP message board.

Personally, I feel the parade was a political event, and I feel quite strongly that CAP should remain apolitical.
I certainly have my political opinions and love discussing politics, but I also appreciate that I can go to my squadron and know that my political beliefs simply don't matter. I can be on the opposite end of the spectrum from any one of my fellow members, but I don't know about it, because it doesn't matter and we don't discuss it. It's nice to still have a place not divided by politics. It would be a shame if CAP were to lose that. Let's focus on our missions instead of how we could be divided.

[Майор Хаткевич]

I read it the same way mwewing did. I found it to be a highly offensive, unprofessional, and completely inaccurate statement that has no business being posted on a CAP message board.

Personally, I feel the parade was a political event, and I feel quite strongly that CAP should remain apolitical.
I certainly have my political opinions and love discussing politics, but I also appreciate that I can go to my squadron and know that my political beliefs simply don't matter. I can be on the opposite end of the spectrum from any one of my fellow members, but I don't know about it, because it doesn't matter and we don't discuss it. It's nice to still have a place not divided by politics. It would be a shame if CAP were to lose that. Let's focus on our missions instead of how we could be divided.

I can see it now. GLR-IL-XXXR and GLR-IL-XXXD.

[CAP4117]

That would certainly make wing conferences "interesting" 

[mwewing]

I agree that Gay Pride parades are very political in nature, and I agree that CAP should remain apolitical. However, most parades I have seen in recent years have been extremely political. The majority of floats and participating groups in our local Memorial Day and 4th of July parades were political candidates, and many of the sames ones who participated in our local Gay Pride parade. The participation of politicians and action groups didn't stop us from marching in holiday parades. I am not saying we should all run right out to the nearest hot button issue, but the lines of political and not are blurry at best.

It may also be worth mentioning that the Air Force, along with numerous federal agencies, participated in a GLBT career fair recently in Metro Detroit. Now this was not a parade and the sole focus was employment and recruitment. However, it does signify that the military is reaching out to the GLBT community now that DADT has been repealed.

I do feel that CAP should be doing the same. I think there is a tremendous amount of untapped talent. I also think it brings diversity to our organization, something we claim at least to value. Beyond wanting to ensure that any law abiding citizen feels welcome to join our ranks and contribute to our missions, sexual orientation should be irrelevant. The questions is, how do we do this without jumping into a divisive political issue? There should clearly be some guidance from high levels of CAP on this matter.

[Майор Хаткевич]

I do feel that CAP should be doing the same. I think there is a tremendous amount of untapped talent. I also think it brings diversity to our organization, something we claim at least to value. Beyond wanting to ensure that any law abiding citizen feels welcome to join our ranks and contribute to our missions, sexual orientation should be irrelevant. The questions is, how do we do this without jumping into a divisive political issue? There should clearly be some guidance from high levels of CAP on this matter.

We don't need to do anything or worry about anything. Sexual Orientation was not an issue in CAP.

[Persona non grata]

Maybe one dat they wont have to be political at all......

[Walkman]

I do feel that CAP should be doing the same. I think there is a tremendous amount of untapped talent. I also think it brings diversity to our organization, something we claim at least to value. Beyond wanting to ensure that any law abiding citizen feels welcome to join our ranks and contribute to our missions, sexual orientation should be irrelevant. The questions is, how do we do this without jumping into a divisive political issue? There should clearly be some guidance from high levels of CAP on this matter.

We don't need to do anything or worry about anything. Sexual Orientation was not an issue in CAP.

That's a point that WE understand from within, but wonder how many good people passed us over because of DADT in the past. They may have assumed that because of our AF affiliation that they weren't welcome. I surprise a lot of people that are older than 35, or overweight, that they can join. The expectation is that we're similar to the AD or Guard in those respects. I can see others looking at DADT in the same light.

[lordmonar]

Not to mention that even IN OUR organisation...there were people right up to last year that thought DADT applied to CAP.

I don't recall if it was here or on CS where someone was ranting about how we should not change our policy and let the LGBT community join.......he shut up really quick when the situation was explained to him. 

IMHO....the Gay Pride Day celebration is not itself political......any more then Black History Month Parade or Memorial Day or Independance day parades are.

Yes....anytime you get more then 10 people together......politicians and people with political agenda's will show up....because you don't want to pass up free advertising.

And if CAP member march and that sends the message that everyone is welcome to serve their community, state and nation....then it is a good thing.  If it also keeps out people who don't show our core value of RESPECT.......again....that is a good thing.

[CAP4117]

And if CAP member march and that sends the message that everyone is welcome to serve their community, state and nation....then it is a good thing.  If it also keeps out people who don't show our core value of RESPECT.......again....that is a good thing.

I definitely agree with you on this point. That is the most important message we can send, I think. I guess maybe it depends on the nature of the parade. I do think that gay pride parades are a little more political than, say, a memorial day parade, just given the political climate we live in and the issues we are currently grappling with as a nation. But, maybe some parades are more than others. I guess for me it's an issue of how can we be welcoming to everyone and uphold our core values and at the same time stay mission-focused and above the political polarization that seems to be gripping the nation. I think both of those things are vital for us to succeed as an organization.
   

[Critical AOA]

IMHO....the Gay Pride Day celebration is not itself political......any more then Black History Month Parade or Memorial Day or Independance day parades are.

I disagree.  The parade is intended to gain some attention, to put the spot light on their cause.  This makes it political.  Independence Day & Memorial Day and their parades are vastly different.   Independence Day celebrates our nation's independence.  Memorial Day commemorates the sacrifices made to preserve that Independence and our freedoms.  Both of these days are intended to be inclusive of all Americans and welcome all of their participation.  When a special interest group has a parade or a special day or month it is most often for political or attention getting purposes.  Vastly different.

[lordmonar]

IMHO....the Gay Pride Day celebration is not itself political......any more then Black History Month Parade or Memorial Day or Independance day parades are.

I disagree.  The parade is intended to gain some attention, to put the spot light on their cause.  This makes it political.  Independence Day & Memorial Day and their parades are vastly different.   Independence Day celebrates our nation's independence.  Memorial Day commemorates the sacrifices made to preserve that Independence and our freedoms.  Both of these days are intended to be inclusive of all Americans and welcome all of their participation.  When a special interest group has a parade or a special day or month it is most often for political or attention getting purposes.  Vastly different.

By that definition........all parade are intended to gain attention to put the spot light on someone's cause......including independanc day and memorial day.  As far as I know the Gay Pride Parades are all inclusive.  Anyone can join.

Now.....a question.....you oppose CAP particpation in the Gay Pride Parade....because it is a special interest group......what would you say about a Disabled Veterans March?  Or a Cancer Awarness March?  Or Veterains Day?  Specail interest groups everyone of them.

[Extremepredjudice]

Replace "Gay Pride" with "White Power." Is it still okay then?

[lordmonar]

Replace "Gay Pride" with "White Power." Is it still okay then?

No......but now we are talking "message" and not just that there is a message.

This whole thread started because the OP was asking /sort of/ for advice about a specific event.

Personally.....IF I WERE THE COMMANDER.....I would not have allowed.  But I am not his commander....and neither are any of the rest of us, so it was out of our hands.

But just because there is "political" overtones with an event....is not an immidiate show stopper.
Politicians in an election year will use just about any venue to get their message across.....up to and including photo ops at military functions.  We can bend over backward trying to avoid "politics" and still get hammered for trying to avoid them in the first place.

On the scale of 100% okay...don't even bother to ask for permission to -100% what the hell were you thinking even contiplaiting going to that event in uniform......a Gay Pride Parade falls somewhere to the right....of don't do it....but just bairly.

On the whole.....since the USAF said it was okay, and NHQ and CAWG was mute........and I have not heard any negetive press about it......I think this is just a non issue.

As will all things......ask your chain of command and follow their policy.  Other then that....you have to just use your best judgement and press on.

[Bloodsky]

It isn't a place for CAP.

Exactly what i meant by my post, that young cadets in uniform do not belong in a gay rights parade.
It does not serve to represent our organization correctly, or at all, for that matter.

[sarmed1]

It does not serve to represent our organization correctly, or at all, for that matter.

Because we all know that there are no gay or lesbian cadets or cadets with gay or lesbian parents...

mk

[Майор Хаткевич]

It does not serve to represent our organization correctly, or at all, for that matter.

Because we all know that there are no gay or lesbian cadets or cadets with gay or lesbian parents...

mk

Don't Ask, Don't Oh...